Big Blue Huddle

Cleveland Browns and San Francisco 49er's- The Browns were by far the best team in the AAFC, winning their championship all 4 seasons of its existence. The 49er's were consistent winners, coming in 2nd place in the AAFC west division every year. The Browns entered the NFL as a powerhouse, playing in the championship game each of their first 6 seasons, winning 3 and continued to be a top team right through the 1960's. The 49er's struggled a bit but held their own upon joining the league.

Other Leagues-The third American Football League was created in 1940, but ceased operations in 1942 due to WWII and never restarted.  In and around 1944, 3 new leagues were formed. The Trans-America Football League (TAFL) and the United States Football League (USFL) organized, but never signed any players or played any games. The All-America Football Conference (AAFC) was also formed around 1944 with plans to start playing in 1945. The AAFC later decided to wait until 1946 to start play as potential players were still not back from the war.

From the beginning, the AAFC tried to force a merger with the NFL or have a championship game against their top team. They even tried to negotiate a common draft, but the NFL first wouldn't talk to them, then refused when negotiates started. In the end, 3 teams joined the NFL and the rest folded. Owners of the Buffalo and Los Angeles team's were allowed to buy into existing NFL teams and the players were divided among the NFL teams.

Cleveland/Los Angeles Rams-The Cleveland Rams started out playing in what is known as the second American Football League in 1936. The first American Football League was organized by C. C. Pyle featuring Red Grange in 1926 and folded after one season. The Rams were scheduled to play for their league's championship that first season against the Boston Shamrocks. Boston's owner never paid the Rams for their regular season game earlier in Boston and also hadn't paid his players for several games. The Shamrock players refused to travel to Cleveland without being paid the money owed to them. Boston's owner announced to the press the game was canceled because of the weather without consulting with the league or the Rams. The Shamrocks were awarded the league championship due to their higher winning percentage. The game would've made the season profitable for the Rams. The Rams, feeling betrayed by Boston and the league, announced they were leaving the league and started negotiations to join the NFL. The NFL had been playing with an odd number(9) of teams for a few years, and Joe Carr, the commissioner, wanted a tenth team to have an even schedule. The Rams had the 2nd best winning percentage and were in better financial condition than most of the AFL. The Cleveland Rams were chosen and joined the NFL in 1937. After losing the Rams, the 2nd AFL folded before the end of its 2nd season.

Side note- The league wouldn't allow the Rams to move to Los Angles or Dallas until they threatened to leave the NFL. In 1945, as league champions, the NFL was afraid they'd join the AAFC which was starting its first season in 1946, giving the new league instant creditability so they allowed the Rams to move to prevent them from joining the new league.

Over the last few years I've been reading and studying Giants history, especially from 1960-1980.  Through my Giants readings, I often got side tracked with other interesting information. NFL expansion was a topic I found interesting.  8 teams that were in the league by 1933,The Bears, Cardinals, Packers, Giants, Redskins, Lions and the 2 Pennsylvania teams survived the depression, WWII and other hurdles and are still in the league today. By 1970, the league had grown to 26 teams, more than triple and all related to eliminating completion from rival leagues.

LT's 2nd half against Detroit on Thanksgiving. The TD interception was the icing on the cake.

Thanks jimv for the recommendation. I finally got it and couldn't put it down. Usually I'm very narrow minded and only want to read about the Giants, but the histories of these older teams were very interesting and it showed how the Giants were so important to the league. Jack & Wellington were the "owners", president & vice president early on, but old man Tim was the boss. Almost from the day the Redskins joined the league, they were the Giants biggest rival. (Not Philly) Great information about George Preston Marshall, how the Redskins got their name, their move to DC and so much more. How basic rules we take for granted today came about, how TV was used by the different teams and so much more. A lot of stuff I knew a little about was fully explained. A must read for any fan of NFL or even just Giants history.    The League: How Five Rivals Created the NFL and Launched a Sports Empire, by John Eisenberg.

Before I read it, I read another book also titled "The League", this one by  David Harris. Also about the ownership of the teams and problems. It starts with 1974 and goes to around 1985. It does go back to 1959 and the problems they ran into thru the 60's. This book has an unbelievable amount of information and goes into tremendous detail. But it can get quite boring. Not much about the Giants in this one, I don't think nephew Tim's name is even mentioned. Pete Roselle, Tex Schramm and Art Modell replaced Tim Mara, George Halas, Bert Bell, Marshall & Dan Rooney running the NFL. If anyone wants my hard cover of this book, I just want what it costs me to mail it. The League: The Rise and Decline of the NFL by David Harris.

This one's easy, Perry Williams, the most under rated player of all time!

Quote from: jimv on February 24, 2019, 11:52:01 AM
Jim, the book you have sounds like it's a history of the NFLPA.  The book this thread is about is By John Eisenberg titled "The League" & subtitled "How Five Rivals Created the NFL and Launched a Sports Empire."

Yes, I see it's different now. But it's much more than the NFLPA history. I'm only about a quarter of the way thru, so I can't give a complete review. So far, the book centers around Pete Roselle and 1974. I compares how he did things much differently than Bert Bell and how he tried to structure the league. It's included the AFL merger, how people like Al Davis took control of the Raiders, how Billy Sullivan brought pro football to Ma, how the Rooney's started the Steelers, etc. The point I'm up to is about expansion, NFLPA and the WFL. I'm hoping it goes thru every team's ownership history as it's done a good job with the dozen or so I've already read.  I'll get the book you started this thread about now that I know the right one. This one seems like it should be read after the one you read, so you might want to check it out.

Quote from: Ed Vette on January 01, 2019, 09:31:39 AM
https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-465-04870-0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like I bought the wrong book. Can't complain, this covers most of the histories of the ownership's of the first 26 teams and Pete Roselle's rise to power. Not much about the Mara's, but I'm not even half way thru. Just starting to read about the rise of the NFLPA and hints about up coming battles with Al Davis. I expect it to cover the Giants winter of '78-'79.

https://www.amazon.com/League-Rise-Decline-NFL/dp/B0013YEO4A

This last Super Bowl cemented Belichick as tops. Lombardi inherited a nucleus which stayed intact in the days before free agency.He won with the same team. Paul Brown, Shula & Landry were consistent winners with totally different teams due to their longevity. Besides Brady, who's left from their first super bowl, the kicker? They lost their left tackle last year and still won. How long have we been blaming Manning' and the running game problems on the left tackle?

Should there be a link?

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 15, 2018, 02:33:14 PM
Head coach, Perkins

I just realized I missed this. Perkins was hired by George Young, the first acquisition not eligible.

This  thread never really took off, but since there's not much going on right now, I thought we could get it going again. So far, we have:


LT-Brad Benson
LG -Doug Van Horn
C-Greg Larson
RG
RT
TE-Bob Tucker
QB-Fran Tarkenton
HB-Doug Kotar, Ron Johnson
FB-Larry Csonka (We'll go with Csonka for now until we see who the coaches are.) Tucker Frederickson
WR-Homer Jones
WR


DE-Jack Gregory
DT-John Mendenhall
DT-Troy Archer
DE-Fred Dryer
LB-Brian Kelley
MLB-Harry Carson
LB-Brad Van Pelt
CB-Willie Williams
CB
FS-Spider Lockhart
SS


PUNTER-Dave Jennings
KICKERPete Gogolak
HEAD COACH-

So far, the only one I disagree with is Doug Kotar, Ron Johnson would be my choice. I'll add Dave Jennings to get this going again. How about the offensive line, was it really that bad for all those years?

If they keep their defense in tact, feel Eli still has it, and a left tackle and TE would push them deep into the playoffs, why not trade some future to fill 2 gaps? The salary cap would make it difficult for any team to trade too many picks.

Bill Parcells signed Curtis Martin to the Jets, but sent a #1 to New England. He said, "think of Martin as our 1st round pick. That worked out well for the Jets.

Well Mara traded picks & youth in 1961 to boost their aging team. It got them to 3 championship games before most of those players ran out of gas. Was it worth it? Most people think so. The team started sinking to all time lows in 1964, but could've dug themselves out in a few years if they drafted right the years following the trades. No matter what, they would've sunk some after having so many starters retire in a 2 or 3 year span.

When talk of the bad drafts of recent years comes up, those of us that have been around awhile remember over  20 years of bad drafts in the 60's and 70's. The bad drafts started before Allie Sherman became head coach and lasted until George Young took over the draft.

When we lose a player from that era, like Willie Williams last year, it brings back great memories of some really good players from those bad teams we've forgotten or were too young to see. Whenever talk of the greatest Giants of all time comes up, names from the glory years like Gifford and Huff are mentioned then the names jump to Simms, Taylor and Banks. Barely a name or 2 from the '64-'79 teams. 

I'd like to put together a "Wilderness All Star Team". Each name should include how he was acquired (i.e. 3rd rd draft pick, free agent, trade). I want to see if we can can put together a Super Bowl contender from players acquired during this period or just how bad the teams drafting was back then.

To be eligible, players had to be acquired before 1979. Harry Carson is eligible because he was drafted during this time. Players should be measured by their level of play after 1964. For example, Del Shofner was one of the best receivers in the NFL during the glory years, but after 1963 he didn't really do much. He wouldn't make my wilderness team. Let's see if we can come up with a Super Bowl contender from a group of players that were acquired between 1960 & 1979 and played here between 1964 & 1983.

I'll start with a couple, then others can add to it.

QB-Fran Tarkenton- 1967 trade for 2 first, 2 second and 1 third round picks. Played at HOF level his first 4 years here.

DT- John Mendenhall- 1972 third round draft pick. I don't think he ever made the Pro Bowl, but he played at close to pro bowl level.

OK, we need 20 more starters for our offense and 4-3 defense plus kickers, return men, Head Coach and if you disagree with my first 2 choices, a couple more starters.