Tom Brady on the impact of firing head coaches

[DaveBrown74]

While the concept of continuity is not a new one to any of us, I thought the way Brady spelled all this out was interesting. I never thought of it from the perspective that firing a head coach can just be another way of helping your opponents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6M8Q-iru0E

[katkavage]

I agree...when you find the right coach continuity is the key. But would anyone argue with the firing of Shurmer and Judge after two years? Or Lovie Smith after one year replaced my DeMeco Ryans. The key is to hire the right guy in the first place. The Chargers gave a third year to Brandon Staley. How did that work out? The Jets are keeping Saleh as head coach only to appease Rodgers. There is no evidence that Saleh is head coach material and ultimately, he will be fired barring a Rodgers miracle next year. What you do is put some of these coaches in lame duck territory and that never works out either. This is not a post to say the Giants should fire Daboll, they shouldn't. He should have one more shot next year to get it right. But if they fall flat next year and the same issues appear would you keep him for a fourth, just cause?? I really just think it depends on the situation, coach, etc. You don't fire for the sake of firing. You do it to better your team.

[DaveBrown74]

I agree...when you find the right coach continuity is the key. But would anyone argue with the firing of Shurmer and Judge after two years? Or Lovie Smith after one year replaced my DeMeco Ryans. The key is to hire the right guy in the first place. The Chargers gave a third year to Brandon Staley. How did that work out? The Jets are keeping Saleh as head coach only to appease Rodgers. There is no evidence that Saleh is head coach material and ultimately, he will be fired barring a Rodgers miracle next year. What you do is put some of these coaches in lame duck territory and that never works out either. This is not a post to say the Giants should fire Daboll, they shouldn't. He should have one more shot next year to get it right. But if they fall flat next year and the same issues appear would you keep him for a fourth, just cause?? I really just think it depends on the situation, coach, etc. You don't fire for the sake of firing. You do it to better your team.

Yeah but he says clearly in the video that sometimes firing is the right thing, "but you better know what you're doing." It was pretty clear that he felt some times over-fire head coaches as a core policy, and that when teams do that they never get better and it's a great thing for their competitors that have actually managed to achieve continuity.

I don't think his point was you should never fire a coach or even that you should never fire a coach after two seasons or even just one season. I took it more that he was saying many teams (and perhaps fan bases) underappreciate the value of continuity and lose patience too quickly. And that those teams play right into the hands of the better teams.

[katkavage]

Yeah but he says clearly in the video that sometimes firing is the right thing, "but you better know what you're doing." It was pretty clear that he felt some times over-fire head coaches as a core policy, and that when teams do that they never get better and it's a great thing for their competitors that have actually managed to achieve continuity.

I don't think his point was you should never fire a coach or even that you should never fire a coach after two seasons or even just one season. I took it more that he was saying many teams (and perhaps fan bases) underappreciate the value of continuity and lose patience too quickly. And that those teams play right into the hands of the better teams.

Continuity is great when you have BB as your head coach. Or Tomlin. Or Harbaugh. How many coaches have been fired prematurely and gone on to have great careers with other teams? BB? Carroll? But not many others I can think of. The key is to find the right guy when you do the hire. The Giants have an awful track record finding the right coach.

[DaveBrown74]

Continuity is great when you have BB as your head coach. Or Tomlin. Or Harbaugh. How many coaches have been fired prematurely and gone on to have great careers with other teams? BB? Carroll? But not many others I can think of. The key is to find the right guy when you do the hire. The Giants have an awful track record finding the right coach.

There are certainly others. Both past and present. Just off the top of my head Todd Bowles might be a current example. Obviously it goes without saying that you need to get it right to begin with and that some coaches are simply incapable of doing the job and will never be good. I don't think anyone would dispute that. But I think we have seen folks here argue pretty vociferously that Daboll should be fired because of one rough season despite an outperformance and coach of the year award in his first year, and if the Giants were to do that (which it appears that won't be), it would just be continuing a culture of knee-jerk firing every two years. And I would argue that this hire, unlike others in the past, was part of a comprehensive process. Yes, he was Schoen's guy, but the hiring of Schoen was the result of a comprehensive process, and there is no doubt in my mind that there was plenty of discussion around head coaching vision when Schoen was being interviewed.

Another point I would make is that, like with basically any other skill there is, people develop. Were you as good at whatever your profession is the first day or first year on the job as you are today? Daboll had some bounces go his way last year early in the season, and then he faced some adversity in the middle to later part of the season, and then he had a couple key wins late in the season and won a road playoff game as an underdog. This year was a setback where a lot went wrong. Obviously there has been some less than savory press about him. Is it the right move to just panic-fire him right now though? Or does it make more sense to maintain some continuity and see how he responds next season?

BTW I appreciate your posts did not specify anything about Daboll and you were making a general point - I am not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just bringing the conversation to the Giants specifically.

[MightyGiants]

Did Tom Brady actually experience having his head coach fired?   Seems like Brady wouldn't be the subject matter expert on this topic.

[Hadron]

If you expand what he's saying further, looking at the impact of coordinators leaving/getting fired.

Best example is Philly. Sirianni is struggling without Steincan and Gannon. While they weren't fired, you can see the impact of change.

Philly also had a good pulse on when to get rid of successful coaches. Reid stagnated in Philly before reinventing himself in KC. Chip Kelly wasn't awful and Doug Pederson picked himself up in Jacksonville.

[T200]

Did Tom Brady actually experience having his head coach fired?   Seems like Brady wouldn't be the subject matter expert on this topic.

No, he didn't. But that wasn't his point. His POV was that the instability of the other teams made it even harder to compete with and beat the Patriots.

[MightyGiants]

No, he didn't. But that wasn't his point. His POV was that the instability of the other teams made it even harder to compete with and beat the Patriots.

I think it's pretty much a given that instability weakens a team.  I think the challenge is finding and then knowing that you have the right people who you just need to be patient with.   It seems unlikely the Giants would have found success sticking with Reese or Gettleman at GM or sticking with Pat Shurmur or Joe Judge as head coach, as examples.

I would have preferred to hear from a QB who went through the instability as I think he would have offered more insight (from first hand experience) than a QB who enjoyed a career of great coaching and great stability.

[T200]

I think it's pretty much a given that instability weakens a team.  I think the challenge is finding and then knowing that you have the right people who you just need to be patient with.   It seems unlikely the Giants would have found success striking with Reese or Gettleman at GM or sticking with Pat Shurmur or Joe Judge as head coach, as examples.

I would have preferred to hear from a QB who went through the instability as I think he would have offered more insight (from first hand experience) than a QB who enjoyed a career of great coaching and great stability.

His perspective is unique for the reasons you mentioned. Not every QB enjoys that type of continuity. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. Tom had the opportunity to see the opposition's coaching issues from the outside and observe the weaknesses that were inherent in changing coaching staffs regularly.

Most players aren't going to go on record "blaming" their organization for firing coaches every two years or so as a reason for the lack of sustained success.

I also thought Brady's analogy of learning a new language every year or two was spot on. Every HC and his staff has a different philosophy and style.

[Giant Jim]

Finding the right guy is most important. Once you have the right guy, stick with him. Sticking with the wrong guy that can't handle the job is worse than getting rid of him. Simple. Is he saying the Jets would've grown and gotten better if they kept Herman Edwards as head coach? The Giants, had they kept McAdoo? Seems like we were seeing the middle of the interview, so it's out of context.

[AZGiantFan]

Did Tom Brady actually experience having his head coach fired?   Seems like Brady wouldn't be the subject matter expert on this topic.

Exactly my thought.

[Woody]

Did Tom Brady actually experience having his head coach fired?   Seems like Brady wouldn't be the subject matter expert on this topic.

good point!

[kartanoman]

His perspective is unique for the reasons you mentioned. Not every QB enjoys that type of continuity. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. Tom had the opportunity to see the opposition's coaching issues from the outside and observe the weaknesses that were inherent in changing coaching staffs regularly.

Most players aren't going to go on record "blaming" their organization for firing coaches every two years or so as a reason for the lack of sustained success.

I also thought Brady's analogy of learning a new language every year or two was spot on. Every HC and his staff has a different philosophy and style.

I like your perspective and it's important to remember he had to learn a new system in Tampa with Bruce Ariens. But Brady came into this league with something to prove, as a sixth-round pick (#200), and his relentless pursuit of knowledge, and application of it to achieve excellence, and having a brilliant head coach (i.e. Belichick) whom he developed impeccable standards for attention to detail, he willed himself to accomplish more as a quarterback than anyone who has ever played the position. Such an individual, who is transitioning into a media role, and who is already out on the motivational speaking circuits, will want to know everything about everything, even if he had never experienced an individual scenario in his life (e.g. not having gone through instability on his team although his final year with the team may fit that bill, nonetheless). To illustrate, I've mentioned before that I am a paid member of the Collingwood Magpies Australian Football League (AFL) Club. When I checked my e-mail this morning, wouldn't it be ironic I receive a message from the club of an opportunity to buy tickets to see none other than ... Tom Brady, yes, the same NFL Tom Brady we're speaking about, who will be in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia on January 27th for a Motivational Speaking session:

In Conversation With Tom Brady

If his marketability is in such demand that the Aussies can't wait to hear from him, then I'm more than willing to listen to what he has to say even if he hasn't played in an unstable organization. He has the connections to players who have played in such situations and have provided him multiple insights to where he can capably speak to the subject.

Finally, should he pursue a position in the Fox commentary booth with a play-by-play commentator, I would expect nothing less than the very best from him given the meticulous preparation he has given to everything he has ever undertaken in his life. I understand that many here support Olsen and his role as #1 analyst at this time. But if Brady is going to do analyst work, let's hear him out first and see where it goes from there. For Fox Sports, it can only be a win-win situation.

Peace!

Peace!

[T200]

I like your perspective and it's important to remember he had to learn a new system in Tampa with Bruce Ariens. But Brady came into this league with something to prove, as a sixth-round pick (#200), and his relentless pursuit of knowledge, and application of it to achieve excellence, and having a brilliant head coach (i.e. Belichick) whom he developed impeccable standards for attention to detail, he willed himself to accomplish more as a quarterback than anyone who has ever played the position. Such an individual, who is transitioning into a media role, and who is already out on the motivational speaking circuits, will want to know everything about everything, even if he had never experienced an individual scenario in his life (e.g. not having gone through instability on his team although his final year with the team may fit that bill, nonetheless). To illustrate, I've mentioned before that I am a paid member of the Collingwood Magpies Australian Football League (AFL) Club. When I checked my e-mail this morning, wouldn't it be ironic I receive a message from the club of an opportunity to buy tickets to see none other than ... Tom Brady, yes, the same NFL Tom Brady we're speaking about, who will be in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia on January 27th for a Motivational Speaking session:

In Conversation With Tom Brady

If his marketability is in such demand that the Aussies can't wait to hear from him, then I'm more than willing to listen to what he has to say even if he hasn't played in an unstable organization. He has the connections to players who have played in such situations and have provided him multiple insights to where he can capably speak to the subject.

Finally, should he pursue a position in the Fox commentary booth with a play-by-play commentator, I would expect nothing less than the very best from him given the meticulous preparation he has given to everything he has ever undertaken in his life. I understand that many here support Olsen and his role as #1 analyst at this time. But if Brady is going to do analyst work, let's hear him out first and see where it goes from there. For Fox Sports, it can only be a win-win situation.

Peace!

Peace!

Thanks KMan

Brady going to Tampa, I would imagine, also included him teaching them some things about what made the Patriots successful all those years.

Last, Brady's take on the coaching carousel despite not being in that situation himself reminds me of the quote about a wise man learning from the mistakes of others. That's why I think his perspective is valuable in this situation.