DJ will have been paid $84,750,000 through 2024
CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT LNG RTG
108 160 67.5 909 5.7 2 6 58 70.5
That's over $42 mil for each TD, and over 93,234 per yard
It sucks, but it is what it is.
At the time, there really weren't a ton of options. Would they have been better off with Garropolo, who just lost his job to Aiden O'Connell? They were picking in the 20s in a weak QB draft, so a rookie was out of the question. I'm not saying the front office deserves not to take any hit for the contract, because they do, but it wasn't that easy of a situation they were in at the time. At least they left themselves with a way out after 2024, which isn't great but it's a lot better than if they had given him a Kyler Murray type contract.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 06, 2023, 01:16:25 PMIt sucks, but it is what it is.
At the time, there really weren't a ton of options. Would they have been better off with Garropolo, who just lost his job to Aiden O'Connell? They were picking in the 20s in a weak QB draft, so a rookie was out of the question. I'm not saying the front office deserves not to take any hit for the contract, because they do, but it wasn't that easy of a situation they were in at the time. At least they left themselves with a way out after 2024, which isn't great but it's a lot better than if they had given him a Kyler Murray type contract.
Jimmy G's contract is effectively $48 million over 2 years with a dead cap hit of 18mil per year.
Jimmy G isn't any better. But at least he's cheaper.
The contract exit, as many of said - with much denial at the time - was always a 2 year deal. It's always been an expensive out.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 06, 2023, 01:28:59 PMJimmy G's contract is effectively $48 million over 2 years with a dead cap hit of 18mil per year.
Jimmy G isn't any better. But at least he's cheaper.
The contract exit, as many of said - with much denial at the time - was always a 2 year deal. It's always been an expensive out.
Tagging him, with the benefit of hindsight, might have been the better option. But that would have for sure meant saying goodbye to Barkley, which I know many here have a huge problem with.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 06, 2023, 01:43:55 PMTagging him, with the benefit of hindsight, might have been the better option. But that would have for sure meant saying goodbye to Barkley, which I know many here have a huge problem with.
If Barkley had 1 more year on his deal and wasn't a FA yet, I think they tag Jones right away without hesitation. But looking at last season as reality and not a mirage they couldn't just let one of those guys walk so at that point it does make sense for them to try and lock up Jones who didn't look THAT bad last year in the hopes he continues to improve rather than locking up Barkley forever and watching him fall apart. But as was stated, the 2 year out indicates pretty clearly nobody was 100% sold on him and good on them for that.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 06, 2023, 01:43:55 PMTagging him, with the benefit of hindsight, might have been the better option. But that would have for sure meant saying goodbye to Barkley, which I know many here have a huge problem with.
In retrospect, given the RB market, I think Barkley would've found his best offer right back here in NY.
Could have just gone with someone like Baker Mayfield as a bridge guy. Would have cost a lot less money.
The big mistake, which Schoen acknowledged was not picking up 5th year option.....
An even bigger mistake was not having the cajones to tell Jones we ain't giving you anything close to what you want. Go make a deal with someone and we'll take the compensatory draft picks.
Still too much Mara interference for good guy types in this organization. Which shows you they are making astronomical amounts of money and this is still his toy, not a real business.
At the end of the day, the DJ deal may benefit the Giants long-term; in short, his terrible play and subsequent injury have virtually guaranteed our heroes will win less than 5 games. A potential 4-13 record will position them to draft a really good QB prospect; this paradigm may not exist if they signed Carr or Mayfield.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 07, 2023, 08:02:21 AMAt the end of the day, the DJ deal may benefit the Giants long-term; in short, his terrible play and subsequent injury have virtually guaranteed our heroes will win less than 5 games. A potential 4-13 record will position them to draft a really good QB prospect; this paradigm may not exist if they signed Carr or Mayfield.
Very true, although they could have achieved the same effect by just tagging him, and then they'd be scot-free with him after this year.
Again, I'm not saying this was an easy call at the time given all circumstances involved, but solely with the benefit of hindsight that might have been the best outcome all things considered.
That's fair, Jeff; however, they clearly prioritized resigning Barkley, which was impossible without signing DJ. Regardless, it's a very fair observation.
I feel bad for Giants Management; the year they had two top 10 picks, there was no QB to draft. A year later, DJ plays well enough to sway public and owner(?) perceptions, coupled in a year with no viable QB options, meant they were bringing him back at a terrible price. Its not their fault 2021 draft was the worst QB talent pool in multiple decades.
Quote from: nicky1000 on November 06, 2023, 05:56:51 PMThe big mistake, which Schoen acknowledged was not picking up 5th year option.....
Nailed. It would have been panned and ridiculed here and other forums but assuming he was never extended the Giants would have their hands clean this offseason to do whatever they want at the QB position.
Quote from: nicky1000 on November 06, 2023, 05:56:51 PMThe big mistake, which Schoen acknowledged was not picking up 5th year option.....
He could have nullified that mistake to some degree by franchising him this year. IIRC the tag for quarterbacks this year was in the low $20 million area. If he wasn't worth picking up his fifth year option why was he worth a four year extension after lighting the league up with 15 passing touchdowns?
Quote from: madbadger on November 07, 2023, 10:41:01 AMHe could have nullified that mistake to some degree by franchising him this year. IIRC the tag for quarterbacks this year was in the low $20 million area. If he wasn't worth picking up his fifth year option why was he worth a four year extension after lighting the league up with 15 passing touchdowns?
The franchise tag for QBs was 32,416,000 and transitional tag $29,504,000
I guess where Schoen could be a little bit questioned (even accounting for hindsight) is, if you were so unsure about Daniel that you put the two year out in there, then why not just tag him?
I guess the answer is because he knew he didn't want to sign Barkley for what Barkley and Kim were demanding and he didn't want to lose him given his relevance to a team that just on their first playoff game in a decade.
The irony in all of that is that simply tagging Jones and just signing Barkley to a 3y deal with a 2y out would have been much less costly to the organization in the medium term than what they actually did do was. Having to have Barkley for one more year at something like $13mm with a relatively easy cut after next season wouldn't be the end of the world if it meant we'd be 100% free and clear of Jones.
It's probably fair to say that in looking at this whole thing holistically, Schoen's scenario analysis may have been sub-optimal.
Quote from: RelaxTension on November 07, 2023, 12:04:12 PMThe franchise tag for QBs was 32,416,000 and transitional tag $29,504,000
So enough cap relief to either make the bridge with Barkley and/or strengthen the the line or get a better receiver.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 07, 2023, 12:31:28 PMSo enough cap relief to either make the bridge with Barkley and/or strengthen the the line or get a better receiver.
That's untrue since Jones cap hit this season is $15.4 million.
I think it was around $20 million but they had to move some.
The waste of money is with Campbell and Slayton both making around $5 million.
There is your swing tackle or guard upgrade.
Quote from: Uni on November 06, 2023, 12:49:18 PMDJ will have been paid $84,750,000 through 2024
CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT LNG RTG
108 160 67.5 909 5.7 2 6 58 70.5
That's over $42 mil for each TD, and over 93,234 per yard
:boooo:
Even before this AWFUL contract was signed his stats were beyond poor.
With that said, looking at it like this should certainly cost SOMEONE their football job (or role within the franchise 🤞🤞)
Blows my mind that people quip about firing Daboll, but, Schoen needs more time...
Wud?
BONO to BOZO amirite?
"Yah but by next year, Joe Burrow will have signed and reset the market. That $40mil per season will just be average QB money. It's gonna look like a steal of a deal!!"
Nope. Never was. Awful from the get go.
Clearly a contrived, hand crafted, media driven narrative likely designed by the teams PR.
This contract is the medium pepsi of the NFL; a total joke.
The proof is in the pudding.
Quote from: RelaxTension on November 07, 2023, 12:38:32 PMThat's untrue since Jones cap hit this season is $15.4 million.
I think it was around $20 million but they had to move some.
The waste of money is with Campbell and Slayton both making around $5 million.
There is your swing tackle or guard upgrade.
Thank you. You are entirely correct - my mistake.
And yes. I agree.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 07, 2023, 12:11:55 PMI guess where Schoen could be a little bit questioned (even accounting for hindsight) is, if you were so unsure about Daniel that you put the two year out in there, then why not just tag him?
I guess the answer is because he knew he didn't want to sign Barkley for what Barkley and Kim were demanding and he didn't want to lose him given his relevance to a team that just on their first playoff game in a decade.
The irony in all of that is that simply tagging Jones and just signing Barkley to a 3y deal with a 2y out would have been much less costly to the organization in the medium term than what they actually did do was. Having to have Barkley for one more year at something like $13mm with a relatively easy cut after next season wouldn't be the end of the world if it meant we'd be 100% free and clear of Jones.
It's probably fair to say that in looking at this whole thing holistically, Schoen's scenario analysis may have been sub-optimal.
Do we know Barkley would have gone for that? It would have been in his best interest to hit free agency I think. Outside of them making him far and away the highest paid RB in the league I do think he elects free agency vs the team friendly 3 year that's really a 2 year deal. My guess is, and it's only a guess, they knew the only way this offense could function at even a remedial level was with both Barkley and Jones together. Since there were not adequate replacements for either of them. And that they had a better chance to get Jones to sign a long term deal than Barkley. Mostly due to the perception around the league that Barkley is one of the best at his position and Jones is one of the worst.
So they got that deal done and slapped Barkley with a franchise tag with the hope that last year wasn't a mirage. Turns out it very much was as we've seen, and now both of those guys should likely be done as Giants in the very near future.
I don't really kill Schoen for this. I understand the thinking it even if I don't necessarily agree. If that's indeed what they were thinking of course. I personally would have let Jones go and given Barkley a take it or leave it offer. If we had to move on from both and position ourselves for a QB in 2024 so be it. It's easy for me to say, not having to listen to all the blow back from the media and fans about how could you blow up a playoff team...but that's the job. He needs to be objective and say yes, a bunch of flukey things led us to the playoffs last season but this is not a playoff team and we need a LOT of help in a LOT of areas.
I'm surprised people are tripping over themselves trying to make sense of this.
We see this countless times every year: a pending UFA has a solid year and positions themselves for a big payday. Jones looked like he arrived vs. the Colts and Vikings last year in important games. He timed it up perfectly. The Giants had no choice but to pay him as a mid-tier QB - and they did. He DID NOT get upper tier franchise QB money.
Now, they've David Carr'd him and it's not going to work out.
It's time to let it go, and stop all the posturing about whose decision it was and whether it was too much money. What's important now is making the right decision on who the next QB is going to be.
Quote from: RelaxTension on November 07, 2023, 12:04:12 PMThe franchise tag for QBs was 32,416,000 and transitional tag $29,504,000
I don't know what I was looking at when I saw it was in the low 20's. Either way the franchise would have but the team another year and in retrospect would have saved them millions on the cap next year and the years after.
Quote from: 4 Aces on November 07, 2023, 01:54:37 PMI'm surprised people are tripping over themselves trying to make sense of this.
We see this countless times every year: a pending UFA has a solid year and positions themselves for a big payday. Jones looked like he arrived vs. the Colts and Vikings last year in important games. He timed it up perfectly. The Giants had no choice but to pay him as a mid-tier QB - and they did. He DID NOT get upper tier franchise QB money.
Now, they've David Carr'd him and it's not going to work out.
It's time to let it go, and stop all the posturing about whose decision it was and whether it was too much money. What's important now is making the right decision on who the next QB is going to be.
By the end of next season they are going to Derek Carr him!
Quote from: 4 Aces on November 07, 2023, 01:54:37 PMWe see this countless times every year: a pending UFA has a solid year and positions themselves for a big payday. Jones looked like he arrived vs. the Colts and Vikings last year in important games. He timed it up perfectly. The Giants had no choice but to pay him as a mid-tier QB - and they did.
So your assertion is that Jones deliberately hoodwinked the Giants by only trying his absolute hardest right before the negotiating period for a payday? In other words, you are saying that in the other 3.5 years of his career he was giving something less than a max effort? Is that correct?
If that is indeed what you're saying, which appears to be the case based on what you have written above, I respectfully disagree. I think he had the year he had in 2022 not because that was the only year he tried hard in but because (1) he uncharacteristically stayed healthy all year and (2) the coaching staff dialed up a very uncomplex, low-risk/low-reward passing offense for him that was designed to limit turnovers and keep the chains moving by leaning heavily on the running game. This helped boost some of Jones' stats. It also helped the team win. This led to his payday. I don't think it was because Jones plotted all along to give a less than full effort until the year it mattered the most from a personal financial standpoint. That doesn't fit his personality at all.
That's not what I meant at all.
I'm simply saying he had a solid performance at the best possible time: right before he hit UFA.
He has followed it up with the worst year of his career.
Quote from: 4 Aces on November 07, 2023, 07:56:58 PMThat's not what I meant at all.
I'm simply saying he had a solid performance at the best possible time: right before he hit UFA.
He has followed it up with the worst year of his career.
Ok. I got a little thrown off when you said "he timed it up perfectly." Made it seem like it was some sort of an intentional plot. I guess I misunderstood.
They should have let Jones test free agency to see his worth. Nobody was giving him 40 million. Nobody. The money was burning a hole in their pocket and they needed to spend it. They paid the position, not the player. I'll give Burrow and Mahomes and Herbet and Lawrenece that type of money. They are QBs like Jones, but more deserving of it. It was a game of chicken and Schoen and the front office blinked. They got fooled by the playoff run and are now paying for it. And they really didn't believe in him, adding a 2-year-and-out policy in the contract. The locker room would have pitched a bitch at first if Jones left. Football is a game. The NFL is the business and feelings need to be left at the door.