Is it me, or does Barkley seem to come up short in critical situations? I know it's a bit of a simplification, but great players come up big in big situations. Yet, I seem to remember more failed plays in key moments with Barkley than I remember successful ones.
Do I remember things correctly?
Rich, I don't know if it's business decisions like Adoree pulled this year. But it's possible.
altho IMO the muffed 2 point try was on TT's indecision and bad toss to SB.
Quote from: President Rick on January 02, 2024, 09:30:59 AMaltho IMO the muffed 2 point try was on TT's indecision and bad toss to SB.
I tend to agree about the 2 pointer that was on TT. On the other hand, there were some bad drops, which, had Barkley been caught, would have won the game.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 02, 2024, 09:37:01 AMI tend to agree about the 2 pointer that was on TT. On the other hand, there were some bad drops, which, had Barkley been caught, would have won the game.
Are you posting the PFF grades?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 02, 2024, 09:39:14 AMAre you posting the PFF grades?
oops! I forgot to do that yesterday (in my defense, I have been a bit under the weather the last few days).
I just posted. As for Barkley, he got a 57.2 with a 33.4 passing 84.9 pass blocking, and a 64.2 running
It's a mixed bag. In one of the last series, he got stopped on a 3rd-and-short. Daboll went for it and Barkley got 4 yards to extend the drive.
He has definitely missed some opportunities to put the team on his back in critical situations.
One of my pet peeves with Saquon is that he rarely puts the ball in his outside arm to free up his inside to stiff arm or otherwise push off a defender. I don't know why no coach has drilled this into his head.
Barkley had some bad drops Sunday, but has come up big in big spots way more often than not.
There was a Saints game a few years ago that he carried the team to victory, a 2-point conversion he made, carrying Dalvin Tomlinson into the endzone to name a few....
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 02, 2024, 09:30:23 AMRich, I don't know if it's business decisions like Adoree pulled this year. But it's possible.
What exactly does this mean?
Barkley is basically not a good receiving running back. He never was. despite this Daboll and Kafka insist on him trying to get in open space with a safe little screen pass and hope Barkley jukes somebody. It never works but, rather than grow a pair and look to a more vertical threat will Hyatt Waller and Robinson and Slayton.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 02, 2024, 09:37:01 AMI tend to agree about the 2 pointer that was on TT. On the other hand, there were some bad drops, which, had Barkley been caught, would have won the game.
Lets put it this way
in big game situations he drops more passes than he catches
he runs into his blockers rather than spin out of it
True
On the TT pass for 2 points Barkley had his back to the QB
either he wasnt expecting the pass or was situationally unaware
likely the later. I was looking for a PAT myself- why 2?
he does not look the football into his hands like a golfer who takes his eye off the ball looking already to see where it goes
On the final play in hindsight I would have had the scottish hammer kick that FG. His last FG try was long and true, no drift. This Crosby guy is horrific
to sum it up it all went well
we proved we can swim with the Sharks and gained draft position
Barkleys big miss was that pass over the middle...again looking before catching and securing
almost identical to Shepards miss on the same play (likely last of his career)
the game certainly had its highlights and lowlights
Quote from: Fletch on January 02, 2024, 10:21:10 AMBarkley is basically not a good receiving running back. He never was. despite this Daboll and Kafka insist on him trying to get in open space with a safe little screen pass and hope Barkley jukes somebody. It never works but, rather than grow a pair and look to a more vertical threat will Hyatt Waller and Robinson and Slayton.
And he is Dave Kingman as a runner. Some home runs, but far too many strikeouts.
But to give the man his due, he is an excellent pass blocker. And thank goodness he is or we might be on out 6th QB for the season.
Quote from: President Rick on January 02, 2024, 09:30:59 AMaltho IMO the muffed 2 point try was on TT's indecision and bad toss to SB.
That play was among the worst I ever saw. The play design was good...the execution was the worst
Don't forget the very strange play when he gets knocked to the ground and fumbles the ball against Green Bay. Fumbles happen but I've never seen a play like that.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 02, 2024, 09:25:35 AMIs it me, or does Barkley seem to come up short in critical situations?
It's you.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 02, 2024, 09:58:16 AMWhat exactly does this mean?
You've never heard this term before? It means that instead of risking injury to his body where he may be a FA next season, he holds up. Adoree did it when he missed tackling opportunities that resulted in a TD. McKinney did it earlier in the year. Like I said, in his case, I'm not sure but last season when in a short-yardage situation, he had that extra effort.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 02, 2024, 09:25:35 AMIs it me, or does Barkley seem to come up short in critical situations? I know it's a bit of a simplification, but great players come up big in big situations. Yet, I seem to remember more failed plays in key moments with Barkley than I remember successful ones.
Do I remember things correctly?
When the game is on the line Barkley is the man you want getting the ball. Problem is every DC knows that, so either give it to him or use him as decoy.
Nobody on the Giants is more clutch.
Quote from: Fletch on January 02, 2024, 10:21:10 AMBarkley is basically not a good receiving running back. He never was. despite this Daboll and Kafka insist on him trying to get in open space with a safe little screen pass and hope Barkley jukes somebody. It never works but, rather than grow a pair and look to a more vertical threat will Hyatt Waller and Robinson and Slayton.
His rookie year he caught 91 passes for nearly 800 yards and over 50 receptions two other years. Disagree with the statement that he never was a good receiving back
Does anyone think Barkley has the same athletic ability and speed he had his rookie season?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 02, 2024, 02:53:43 PMDoes anyone think Barkley has the same athletic ability and speed he had his rookie season?
Definitely not, sadly. Injuries took a generational type talent and prospect and made him just a very good RB. If he had stayed healthy he'd still be breaking records.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on January 02, 2024, 03:27:14 PMDefinitely not, sadly. Injuries took a generational type talent and prospect and made him just a very good RB. If he had stayed healthy he'd still be breaking records.
Assume Barkley had had much better luck/results on the health front. What RB (present day or past) do you think his career might have resembled?
I don't mean precise stats or anything annoyingly pedantic like that but just off the top of your head what names come to mind? I'm curious how great a career you think he would have had.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 02, 2024, 03:37:50 PMAssume Barkley had had much better luck/results on the health front. What RB (present day or past) do you think his career might have resembled?
I don't mean precise stats or anything annoyingly pedantic like that but just off the top of your head what names come to mind? I'm curious how great a career you think he would have had.
Sure...Marshall Faulk, Tiki Barber, Thurman Thomas.... name any great all-purpose RB and I definitely think he would have stacked up if he had stayed healthy.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on January 02, 2024, 03:43:25 PMSure...Marshall Faulk, Tiki Barber, Thurman Thomas.... name any great all-purpose RB and I definitely think he would have stacked up if he had stayed healthy.
Yep, makes sense. What he did in 2018 was pretty spectacular. If he had 6-7 years of that type of production with minima to mild at worst injury disruption I could see that. Of course, Tiki's best years were towards the back end of his career, whereas Saquon was sick right from the jump. I was thinking of names like Tomlinson and possibly Faulk. Thomas is a good one too that I hadn't thought of.
Interestingly on Thomas, just as a side point and something I noticed: that guy played forever (until age 34), but you can see in the numbers that his pop started to decline after about age 27 or so. His totals were still solid for a while after that, but he went from being a 4.8/4.9 YPC guy to a 3.8ish guy by the mid 90s and onwards. I'm sure it can be demonstrated that the Bills' O line aged out around then, plus Kelly was in his twilight years then too, but it is another example of the many backs whose burst begins to decline noticeably around this age. Tiki was a major exception. Curtis Martin was another. There aren't that many like that.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 02, 2024, 01:30:03 PMYou've never heard this term before? It means that instead of risking injury to his body where he may be a FA next season, he holds up. Adoree did it when he missed tackling opportunities that resulted in a TD. McKinney did it earlier in the year. Like I said, in his case, I'm not sure but last season when in a short-yardage situation, he had that extra effort.
No I haven't. I am not sure of his FA status has anything to do with missed tackling. If anything he cost himself money as every team looking for a CB will see that he can't or won't tackle. The entire secondary has a tackling problem which is why I think it is coaching problem. Possibly to avoid roughing penalties or like you suggested injuries.
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on January 02, 2024, 02:43:53 PMHis rookie year he caught 91 passes for nearly 800 yards and over 50 receptions two other years. Disagree with the statement that he never was a good receiving back
Then the DCs of the league sussed him out and limited his production.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 02, 2024, 10:26:33 PMThen the DCs of the league sussed him out and limited his production.
Why does this special attention not affect other players like Tiki, Jim Brown, Faulk, Riggins, and on and on and on
Barkley was not a legit #2 pick in the draft. Gettleman has having as they say in the AI world "Hallucinations"
He is a mid level back with poor receiver and blocking skills. He needs a belly catch to secure the ball and Ive seen him miss those incredibly.
The endless attempts to justify Barkley have cost us dearly. Especially when it comes to short yardage and 1st and 2nd down yardage. We are constantly facing 3rd and long and wearing out the Scottish Hammer. We are 2nd only to the Jets with 90 punts this season. Barkley should be in a RB rotation not taking 90 percent of the snaps
90 punts 90 sacks taken, 90 percent Barkley. Bad combination
Quote from: BluesCruz on January 03, 2024, 07:59:32 AMWhy does this special attention not affect other players like Tiki, Jim Brown, Faulk, Riggins, and on and on and on
Barkley was not a legit #2 pick in the draft. Gettleman has having as they say in the AI world "Hallucinations"
He is a mid level back with poor receiver and blocking skills. He needs a belly catch to secure the ball and Ive seen him miss those incredibly.
The endless attempts to justify Barkley have cost us dearly. Especially when it comes to short yardage and 1st and 2nd down yardage. We are constantly facing 3rd and long and wearing out the Scottish Hammer. We are 2nd only to the Jets with 90 punts this season. Barkley should be in a RB rotation not taking 90 percent of the snaps
90 punts 90 sacks taken, 90 percent Barkley. Bad combination
The guys in bold had a lot more around them to take the heat off than Barkley does. Jim Brown was just a beast and the basically the best player at his position ever. The Lawrence Taylor of RBs if you will.
Tiki had, Eli, Shockey, Toomer to name a few and don't forget the OL was just a tad better than today's version. Barkley has had no passing game to worry opposing defenses at all and one of the worst OLs for several years. Faulk was part of the greatest show on turf. Riggins wasn't all that good until later in his career when he had Theisman Art Monk and the hogs.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 03, 2024, 11:14:58 AMThe guys in bold had a lot more around them to take the heat off than Barkley does. Jim Brown was just a beast and the basically the best player at his position ever. The Lawrence Taylor of RBs if you will.
Tiki had, Eli, Shockey, Toomer to name a few and don't forget the OL was just a tad better than today's version. Barkley has had no passing game to worry opposing defenses at all and one of the worst OLs for several years. Faulk was part of the greatest show on turf. Riggins wasn't all that good until later in his career when he had Theisman Art Monk and the hogs.
Sorry I cannot make excuses for the guy anymore
Enough, DONE, cut him free
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on January 02, 2024, 02:43:53 PMHis rookie year he caught 91 passes for nearly 800 yards and over 50 receptions two other years. Disagree with the statement that he never was a good receiving back
His rookie season he was playing with a hall of fame QB or just under that. Enough said.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 02, 2024, 09:25:35 AMIs it me, or does Barkley seem to come up short in critical situations? I know it's a bit of a simplification, but great players come up big in big situations. Yet, I seem to remember more failed plays in key moments with Barkley than I remember successful ones.
Do I remember things correctly?
I agree and brought this issue up a while ago. Jets game Giants going in to clinch game with a touchdown and for some reason on third down Barkley, with little time left, goes down on his own before the first down marker on about the 5 yard line..what ! I think Giants missed FG and Jets go length of field to win . If he gets first down they run out the clock ...!!! last year going out of bounds in Baltimore game and stops the clock with little time left giving the ball back to Ravens ....ran out a couple of other times as well. know there are others but ....really ?
Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 02, 2024, 10:57:16 AMAnd he is Dave Kingman as a runner. Some home runs, but far too many strikeouts.
But to give the man his due, he is an excellent pass blocker. And thank goodness he is or we might be on out 6th QB for the season.
Dave Kingman? I had this baseball card but do not even remember watching him play. The analogy does not work as well.
Kingman faced different pitchers throughout his career. It is a little different when you are playing against 11 guys who know you are the only real threat on the Giants offense.
The Barkley Flop against Green Bay rivaled DJs in Philly. But Jones held on to the ball .credit due.
:yes:
Quote from: BluesCruz on January 03, 2024, 03:05:29 PMSorry I cannot make excuses for the guy anymore
Enough, DONE, cut him free
I didn't think we were talking about whether or not he should return. That's a different conversation.
I was just talking about what you said. It's about context
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=68532.0
Quote from: Fletch on January 03, 2024, 03:28:33 PMHis rookie season he was playing with a hall of fame QB or just under that. Enough said.
He still had to catch the ball. Your statement was he isn't and never was a good receiver.
Don't worry theu will release him and he will be on the pro bowl/All pro list next year.
Quote from: FL GMAN on January 04, 2024, 02:32:05 PMDon't worry theu will release him and he will be on the pro bowl/All pro list next year.
That could happen, but it wouldn't mean the Giants letting Barkley move on was a mistake. Barkley is the sort of player a talented team adds to be that last piece to push them into being top contenders. Barkley (at this point in his career) is not the sort of player you carry if you are a talent-deficient team struggling just to be good.
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on January 04, 2024, 11:16:38 AMHe still had to catch the ball. Your statement was he isn't and never was a good receiver.
Catching the ball is a lot easier when you have a gun slinger, big arm QB that will find one-on-one somewhere and make defenses pay compared with what we have now: every defense in the NFL knows Barkley is getting a screen pass on 3rd down.