Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 30, 2022, 03:37:55 PMThose urban dwellers grew up with guns; only they saw those guns killing their family and friends. 

Unfortunately tragedies are politically weaponized to lead to a dichotomy of conclusions/solutions where there can be no compromise.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on November 30, 2022, 03:01:16 PMAnd when the Government refuses to do the right thing and protect it's citizens (like in Chicago) the citizens have the right to protect themselves.

The founding fathers didn't just give us the Right to overthrow a tyrannical government which back then may have been able to happen more then today, (although some would say no term limits and the state of our current government could be considered as such), it was also to protect themselves and their property.

With the invasion going on at the southern boarder and what these poor people are going through in these boarder towns, the lawlessness in major cities with no bail and people just released or not even arrested, etc. who is to protect the avg man?

People have the right in this country to protect themselves again the Supreme Court has rules it's not the job of the police, the government has shown they aren't able to keep people safe and refuse to crack down on the criminals (who have guns and don't acquire them legally and never well), so then who?

It's up to the average citizen THAT CHOOSES TO either arm themselves or not!

If you don't choose to that is your civil right.  I shouldn't be denied though because someone else feels it's not needed.  My rights shouldn't stop where someone's beliefs start.  Doing so violated my rights.

Just how I feel.


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The discussion about the intent of the founding fathers and the Bill Of Rights has become secondary. The gun debate as of today is a cultural war between urban and rural dwellers. It is a conflict between those who grew up around firearms, were exposed to them at a young age, and see them as integral to their culture and their heritage - a symbol of tradition and self reliance and those that presumably grew up in urban areas where there were no weapons in the house. The latter wants no part of gun ownership and believes no one else should posses them either...except for the state. They have confidence in state authority and in the police to protect them.

It is a debate between those that favor independence from the state and those that advocate greater state dependence.
 
Obviously there are outliers to these assumptions but I believe this to be generally true. 

Quote from: T200 on November 30, 2022, 10:46:22 AMI could be wrong or off-base, but wasn't the arming of citizens due the the lack of a "national" army/defense to protect against the Native Americans and British back then?

We now have, and have had, the most powerful military on the face of the Earth. Do the citizens need access to guns the way they did back then?

The reasoning behind the 2nd amendment is that it holds the government ultimately accountable to the people and not the other way around. All other considerations such as self defense and hunting are secondary and more than occasionally used as straw men. Prior to the drafting of the Bill Of Rights and certainly prior to the Enlightenment it was standard practice for the common citizen/peasant/serf/pleb to be denied by the ruling authorities the right to keep and bear arms. Those denied that right are little more than serfs/slaves. This is why the second amendment exists.

"Well-regulated in the 18th century tended to be something like well-organized, well-armed, well-disciplined," says Rakove. "It didn't mean 'regulation' in the sense that we use it now, in that it's not about the regulatory state. There's been nuance there. It means the militia was
 in an effective shape to fight."
In other words, it didn't mean the state was controlling the militia in a certain way, but rather that the militia was prepared to do its duty.

https://constitutioncenter.org/images/uploads/news/CNN_Aug_11.pdf

Love me sone RJD. The stuff he did with Rainbow is untouchable.

What was Plaxico Burress actually charged with and subsequently convicted of?

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 30, 2022, 08:12:19 AMRights constantly come into conflict, and those rights have to be weighed in terms of importance.  For example, the right of your neighbor to have a loud party at 3 in the morning is trumped by your right to peace and quiet and a good night's sleep(I can give many other examples as well).    I think it's fair to say that the right to life far outweighs all other rights.

The right to life can be interpreted i.e. the right to self protection is also the right to life.

Quote from: TDToomer on November 29, 2022, 11:23:36 PMAfter reading the last 2 pages of this thread it is clear that we will never fix the gun violence problem in this Country and we will continue to lead the world in mass shootings. There is no level of violence that will convince the hard liners that something needs to change.

Gun violence psychology is not all that different from suicidal psychology. An industrial society had been created intentionally or not where people are forced to work in cubes...where they have ever ever diminishing opportunities for autonomy and self determination. We have moved away from the natural world. Social media is toxic to self esteem. Obviously I've grossly simplified this for the sake of brevity but the point is that the modern world is highly toxic to healthy self esteem and relationship with other humans.

Not easily fixed, but given the current climate, handing over all of our arms to a state that grows ever more totalitarian and hostile doesn't seem like a fantastic idea either.

Quote from: DJN on November 29, 2022, 05:40:50 PMBloomberg made an example out of him, but what do you need a gun for, just to go to a club ?? Because you wanna wear $100,000 in gold ?? Then go to respectable joints where you don't need a gun, don't have to worry about being robbed and if a problem arrives, fight with your fists like a man

He had the gun because his teammate had recently been robbed. I agree about going to clubs. Any place that serves alcohol is best avoided TBH. Your comment about fist fighting is silly.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on November 29, 2022, 03:01:23 PMNY has to do something   Walking around the city is giving me  Dinkens vibe from back in the day! 


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I'm willing to bet I'm the most pro 2A member of this forum but I learned a few years ago that talking about it on the internet won't earn you anything but haughty derision.

And I feel bad for Plax but he made a ton of judgement errors. One of the most fundamental things they teach you in CC class is the best way to avoid a confrontation is to avoid situations where they can occur if at all possible.

Apocalypse Now

Dune is as much about themes as it is about plot, probably more so. 

Quote from: LennG on November 13, 2021, 07:57:00 PM
I think that was exactly the point I was trying to make in my original post. If you go into this movie/story blind of any knowledge of the story, wouold you be able to follow along or really appreciate the movie?

I admit it could be a challenge if one were to go into the movie absolutely cold, but that to me is not a requisite for a film. Some of the best art must or may be consumed in sessions to be thoroughly appreciated. 

Oh...there was also a 2000 SyFy channel miniseries which I have never seen. It was praised for its fidelity to the source material and solid cast, but it suffered from a low budget and underwhelming special effects.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 03, 2021, 01:10:45 PM
I agree with you guys, a good musical score can really take a movie to a whole other level.   However, I don't think musical scores should be a crutch where scenes completely break down without them.

2001 isn