Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 22, 2022, 05:11:23 PMOk, so again middle of the road QB.  Which is fine.  It's not a $25-$30+ AAV QB.

What we do know that with this QB, OL and WR's the Giants have one of the least productive passing offenses in football.  I don't think adding a #1 Playmaking WR will make as big of a difference as others do.  For me the screaming about the WR's is what the fire Jason Garrett upgrade the offensive line was a year ago.  Yet here we are having a similar discussion.

We are having the same discussion because the Oline pass blocking has seriously declined since last year and the WRs have gone backwards since last year.  There is a limit to how much coaching can affect units that have a serious lack of quality.

Phil Simms, Rich Gannon, David Tyree, Lawrence Tynes, Tiki Barber, and the majority of the Giants beat reporters.

What do they all have in common?

They all have recently said they believe that Jones will be back with the Giants next season.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 22, 2022, 05:15:30 PMWe are having the same discussion because the Oline pass blocking has seriously declined since last year and the WRs have gone backwards since last year.  There is a limit to how much coaching can affect units that have a serious lack of quality.

Personnel has changed on both the WR and O-Line units.  Play caller has also changed.......

I wonder what hasn't changed? 

Quote from: Blue Fire on December 22, 2022, 05:17:33 PMPhil Simms, Rich Gannon, David Tyree, Lawrence Tynes, Tiki Barber, and the majority of the Giants beat reporters.

What do they all have in common?

They all have recently said they believe that Jones will be back with the Giants next season.

All of which have no connection to the new Giants regime.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 22, 2022, 05:11:23 PMFor me the screaming about the WR's is what the fire Jason Garrett upgrade the offensive line was a year ago.  Yet here we are having a similar discussion.

Last year there was also a lot of talk about how Jones didn't have a running game to lean on (as Barkley was bad last year). This year not only did we get rid of Jason Garrett and replace him with Daboll/Kafka, but Barkley is the Pro Bowl starter now. And yet the passing numbers still are not materially different from past years.

Quote from: Blue Fire on December 22, 2022, 05:17:33 PMPhil Simms, Rich Gannon, David Tyree, Lawrence Tynes, Tiki Barber, and the majority of the Giants beat reporters.

What do they all have in common?

They all have recently said they believe that Jones will be back with the Giants next season.

Jones may well be back next year, but I doubt Schoen will do it at a price he's not comfortable with. And that's if he's willing to do it at all, which I have no idea if he will be. I think we can all agree that Jones is not a guy whom you just sign at whatever price you can get him, a la Josh Allen or Pat Mahomes. There is a limit to what any sensible GM would pay for him. If he is asking for more than what Schoen is comfortable with, then I think he will hit the open market.

Jones doesn't seem like the type to dig his heels in and go for max dollars at this early stage in his career, so if the Giants are interested in bringing him back I have a feeling he'll be on the more compliant side compared to other athletes. We'll see though. This is all just speculation at this stage. Nobody here knows what will happen, including me (obviously).

Quote from: T200 on December 22, 2022, 02:39:59 PMI'm pleased with his performance this year, all things offense considered. I'm fine with his being a game manager, making good decisions (for the most part) and his legs aren't to be dismissed.

Aside from limiting the turnovers, my biggest question mark for him this season was his health. He checked that box for me.

We know from under PS he can air the ball out and make the throws!  Nothing has changed physically that anyone is aware of to prove otherwise.

So the big question becomes (which we can't get answered) is it the coaching staff holding him back from doing so, is the WRs the issue (yet look at the bomb to Slay a few weeks back) or is he just gun shy and won't throw it?

I think if we had that answered it could answer and clear up a lot

If you want to argue that Jones isn't the long term answer - that's fine.

But to say we have a WR group that could produce above average result for any QB is just remarkable to me. They are a very bad unit.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 22, 2022, 05:36:52 PM

Thanks for sharing.

Obviously this guy is not a Daniel Jones fan, so I'm sure there will be some members here who won't like this video and will dismiss everything he has to say out of hand. I think he makes some valid points though, particularly about some of the fan base being more accepting of mediocrity than they were a decade ago.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 22, 2022, 06:21:24 PMThanks for sharing.

Obviously this guy is not a Daniel Jones fan, so I'm sure there will be some members here who won't like this video and will dismiss everything he has to say out of hand. I think he makes some valid points though, particularly about some of the fan base being more accepting of mediocrity than they were a decade ago.

I am curious, you are really raving about this video.  Why did you completely ignore the one that was posted yesterday?


I mean they are both about Daniel Jones and they both are made by some random dude.  What made the one Rambo posted so great and the other one not even worthy of mention?

Quote from: AP44 on December 22, 2022, 06:04:13 PMIf you want to argue that Jones isn't the long term answer - that's fine.

But to say we have a WR group that could produce above average result for any QB is just remarkable to me. They are a very bad unit.

I know we agree to disagree on this but outside of lacking a true #1 Playmaking WR I don't believe this unit is that bad.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 22, 2022, 06:21:24 PMThanks for sharing.

Obviously this guy is not a Daniel Jones fan, so I'm sure there will be some members here who won't like this video and will dismiss everything he has to say out of hand. I think he makes some valid points though, particularly about some of the fan base being more accepting of mediocrity than they were a decade ago.

The point that he brought up about how we as Giants fans would look at Daniel Jones if he was the QB of another team and how it would be completely different is a really good one.  Sometimes you have to separate your fandom from these situations if you truly want to be honest.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 22, 2022, 05:21:54 PMLast year there was also a lot of talk about how Jones didn't have a running game to lean on (as Barkley was bad last year). This year not only did we get rid of Jason Garrett and replace him with Daboll/Kafka, but Barkley is the Pro Bowl starter now. And yet the passing numbers still are not materially different from past years.

Well, the pass pro DID get a lot worse, so there's that.

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 22, 2022, 05:19:27 PMPersonnel has changed on both the WR and O-Line units.  Play caller has also changed.......

I wonder what hasn't changed? 

The lack of quality of both groups.  Although they did really change, the O-line clearly got worse in pass pro, and the WRs declined largely due to injury.

I know where you want to take this, but you have to deal with these facts. The personnel may have changed in these units, but is a very hard case to make that change meant improvement.  Impossible, in the case of the pass pro.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 22, 2022, 07:35:07 PMThe lack of quality of both groups.  Although they did really change, the O-line clearly got worse in pass pro, and the WRs declined largely due to injury.

I know where you want to take this, but you have to deal with these facts. The personnel may have changed in these units, but is a very hard case to make that change meant improvement.  Impossible, in the case of the pass pro.

The fact is there has been one constant the last 4 seasons.  Yet there is always some other excuse to get away from the inconvenient factor no one wants to acknowledge.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 22, 2022, 03:45:32 PMIm even ok with numbers if we're not acting like he's the end all be all or that he's done some miraculous feat warranting 30 million a year. His passing Imo is meh, it's not good enough, and if we are looking at Jones as a stop gap to us finding the answer I'm 150% on board with that. I'm just not ok with acting like he's the long term answer when he's clearly not if that makes sense.

I don't think there's anyone here that thinks that either.