Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: kingm56 on December 23, 2022, 07:56:57 PMRich,

The question has nothing to do with having the available information to glean what the Giants might do. It's actually quite simple. What would you, as a Giants fan, want to happen. We're not front office personnel; so, we can speculate without having the necessary information as there's no repercussions.

Matt,

I believe I addressed this in my previous post to DB.  Let me know if that was enough.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 23, 2022, 07:26:01 PMSounds like where in violent agreement, Rich.

Maybe on process, but not on outcome.

Ironically you don't seem to like Jones that much but now seem to be willing to transition tag him if they don't have a suitable draft target, while I like Jones a lot* but I think the 28 million the tag would cost is too much and would be too much of an impediment to resigning our key players and filling some of our myriad holes with solid middle cost players and maybe one bigger signing. Same reason I prefer not signing Barkley.  The Giants window of opportunity with Jones closed when they failed to use the years of his cheap rookie contract to successfully build out the team.  But he is worth good money to a team that is built out already but who lack a QB, IMO.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but I like Jones more than you do, but you are more willing to transition tag him than I am.

*I've previously opined that on an offense with a competent NFL quality OL and NFL quality receivers (not an offense with elites at every position, as some have distorted the position) Jones would be a top ten QB.  My sense is you wouldn't agree.

Of course there is a decent chance that I am completely wrong, which is why I'm glad I'm not making the decisions. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 08:01:46 PMIf you want to know if I want him back or not, I can answer that.  I want him back, BUT only if that is what Daboll and Schoen want. 

Ok got it, thanks.

Rich,

I like Jones and have repeatedly stated he ranks between 12 and 18, which I think is high praise. However, when I view the NFL through a modern lens, I realize it's difficult to remain consistently competitive without a top 12 quarterback. A review of teams who pay mid-tier quarterbacks excessive money, have relative success, and can't seem to get past teams with Top 10 QBs.  I simply don't want that for our Giants.


I recommended the transition or franchise tag because it allows them to retain DJ without obligating future funds. To be clear, I want to retain DJ for the same reason the Giants did not replace him this year. They will not be in a position to draft anyone better; to that point, if there was somebody worthy of a top 10 pick last year, I sincerely believe the Giants would've drafted his replacement.

Moreover, the Giants are in great cap situation next year and can absorb the hit. More to the point, the Giants are not one year away from winning a championship. They might need another year and another shot at the draft to get their Guy.  FA QBs are never the answer...

Now, if there's a quarterback they really like, I'm all for expending multiple draft picks to move up to acquire said quarterback.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 08:03:14 PMMatt,

I believe I addressed this in my previous post to DB.  Let me know if that was enough.

The follow up to Dave explained your position...took a few post to get there tho 

Quote from: kingm56 on December 23, 2022, 08:15:43 PMThe follow up to Dave explained your position...took a few post to get there tho 

I know there are some on our forums that frown on debate.  Personally I like debate.  I often find it's a key part of my process.  It helps me test and refine my thoughts.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 08:21:08 PMI know there are some on our forums that frown on debate.  Personally I like debate.  I often find it's a key part of my process.  It helps me test and refine my thoughts.

I agree. Debate is actually healthy...

Quote from: kingm56 on December 23, 2022, 08:27:02 PMI agree. Debate is actually healthy...

+1 Agreed

3 pages to answer a multiple choice question is something I've personally never seen before lol.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 23, 2022, 08:42:26 PM3 pages to answer a multiple choice question is something I've personally never seen before lol.

Nuance is difficult with a multiple choice questions.  It is not a multiple choice world.  My own position didn't fit anywhere within those choices.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 23, 2022, 09:05:19 PMNuance is difficult with a multiple choice questions.  It is not a multiple choice world.  My own position didn't fit anywhere within those choices.

Neither does mine!

But crazy enough for once Rich and I are fairly close lol

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 24, 2022, 12:13:10 AMNeither does mine!

But crazy enough for once Rich and I are fairly close lol

I actually believe 90%+ agrees on DJs potential future. The fringes (he stinks or he'll be elite with a top-tier Wr) are minor.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 24, 2022, 12:30:55 AMI actually believe 90%+ agrees on DJs potential future. The fringes (he stinks or he'll be elite with a top-tier Wr) are minor.

I'm in a different 'fringe', apparently.  I think he could become elite on a team that has an offense with a reasonable amount of NFL-level quality.  And as I said before I'm not talking about the hyperbolic distortion some have read into this and claimed I want an elite guy at every position.

Alas, I think circumstances have made this impossible to occur for the Giants, because they needed to get to that point of a reasonable amount of quality on the offense while he was on his rookie contract and they didn't.  So now he is more valuable to a team that has this, but no QB, than he is to the Giants, who don't have this yet and need to build it out over the next year or two.  Letting DJ and Barkley walk would accelerate the build out.  IMO, needless to say.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 24, 2022, 12:13:10 AMNeither does mine!

But crazy enough for once Rich and I are fairly close lol

frightening isn't it