Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 26, 2024, 10:24:36 AMLOL. He was offered a fair market value, multi-year contract and turned it down. The franchise tag figure exceeded his value and his worth. As DB said, he made out like a bandit in 2023 vs. his production. And he proved he's not worth that kind of money and that the team was lucky he turned down the long term deal.

Jonathan Taylor's contract reset the market for the position. The Giants knew Taylor was going to get paid and knew it would negatively effect their bargaining power. It was fair play for them but I would rather over pay for a top 10 running back than to grossly over pay for a bottom 10 quarterback, which is exactly what happened. Jones stupid contract is far more toxic to the future success of the franchise than paying Barkely $14 million per for four years. I don't know how anyone can look at the two and say the Giants made the right call. If the Giants cut Jones after next year the dead money hit alone is $22  million and that's after having paid him $81 million for 2023 and 2024. $103  million for a dude who, with the same roster, was the clearly third most effective quarterback on the field this year after a journeyman and a rookie street free agent. So miss me with your lol about Barkely. At least that dude can play. Jones is garbage.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 26, 2024, 11:35:29 AMNo, he's not right. You don't overpay anyone, especially a RB. The Giants tried to pay him and they rebuffed him. The reason Saquon wasn't paid is because of Saquon and no one else.

Agreed.  The prudent thing to have done was let both walk.  And if they had this place would have erupted into an inferno hellscape as people try to wrap their minds around the idea that the team just went to the playoffs and won a game and now they are simply letting their QB and best offensive player this side of Thomas walk away for nothing.  Even though looking ahead to the future it would have been the right decision, and if they had simply lost a few of those games last year that they were lucky to win, that is exactly what would have happened.

Its not prudent to disobey direct orders from your boss. 

Quote from: madbadger on January 26, 2024, 12:05:25 PMJonathan Taylor's contract reset the market for the position. The Giants knew Taylor was going to get paid and knew it would negatively effect their bargaining power. It was fair play for them but I would rather over pay for a top 10 running back than to grossly over pay for a bottom 10 quarterback, which is exactly what happened. Jones stupid contract is far more toxic to the future success of the franchise than paying Barkely $14 million per for four years. I don't know how anyone can look at the two and say the Giants made the right call. If the Giants cut Jones after next year the dead money hit alone is $22  million and that's after having paid him $81 million for 2023 and 2024. $103  million for a dude who, with the same roster, was the clearly third most effective quarterback on the field this year after a journeyman and a rookie street free agent. So miss me with your lol about Barkely. At least that dude can play. Jones is garbage.

I never said paying DJ over Saquon was the right call, because I'm capable of seeing them for what they are - 2 completely unrelated events. Neither should have been paid.

As for overpaying a RB, that is foolish under any circumstance. So happy the Giants agree.

As for Taylor, he's much better than Saquon - in 2 less years in the league has 5 more rushing TDs, only has 600 less rushing yards, and averages almost a yard more per carry. And he's younger. And even in his case, I would not have overpaid him. So Saquon certainly wasn't worth it. And as stated, his 2023 performance clearly shows that.

Quote from: Gmo11 on January 26, 2024, 10:44:05 AMHe's right.  If they were going to overpay for one of those guys probably over pay for the one of them that's actually good at their job.  Seems pretty straightforward. I think the reasons things played out the way they did are pretty obvious, selling the fanbase on letting Jones walk after his best season, but from this it makes me think that the players would have understood if they did it. 

I agree.  I said it at the time and will say it again- playing hardball with your best player, a team captain, a guy that has put every piece of work into the franchise that you've asked him to put...WILL have negative consequences in the locker room.  I'd even go so far as to say it cost the team wins this year.  You can believe that or not- that's fine.  But this stuff MATTERS to players- when a guy does everything right and the front office still doesn't pay him, it reverberates. 

And let's not forget- we are not talking about a huge percentage of the cap by any means at all- say it was 12 or 13 million a year for multiple years.  The cap hit is actually lower since it's spread out and the difference between the tag and a multi-year deal, cap wise last year, would have been minimal when looking at the entirety of the cap situation. 

I think this was 100% a misstep by Joe Schoen- for the CULTURE impact at such a minimal cost.  Kayvon is just saying what I guarantee other dudes in the locker room are thinking.  They want to play for a team that not only says they value your hard work and dedication but also backs that up with dollars and SECURITY.  I'm sure most won't like to hear that message, but that doesn't make it any less correct.

Quote from: madbadger on January 26, 2024, 09:57:53 AMHe should have been paid fair market value and not forced to grovel just to get the franchise.

IMO he was offered more than FMV and turned it down, and then was forced to take more than FMV via the tag.  Assuming the Giants aren't foolish enough to tag him again he'll find out what his real FMV is. I predict a splashy high total number that he and his agent can point to with the 'under the hood' numbers being far more moderate.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 26, 2024, 11:02:54 AMIt may not be a big story to us, but we don't really know how the story will play out in the locker room. We've heard stories of toxic Giants locker rooms in the not distant past, and from what I understand it's an unwritten rule that you never publicly talk about your teammates contracts (other than maybe generic congratulations).

Doc: That's true, but in NY every fart gets front-page reporting because there are so many reporters. Bob

Without reading this entire thread, I think he was out of his lane commenting on this and I would imagine it didn't go down well with the brass. As a fan, I see it as dipping his toe in the water and I wonder what to expect of his future actions. He had to know that it would go viral and that tells me it's all about his ego and getting attention. I'm sure most of you disagree. It's going to take a while before I can get behind this guy.

Quote from: Bob In PA on January 26, 2024, 01:21:58 PMDoc: That's true, but in NY every fart gets front-page reporting because there are so many reporters. Bob

He basically threw his QB under the bus.

Speaking of Barkley, is anyone bothered by his response to this tweet?

https://twitter.com/saquon/status/1750908706441637986?t=fMwN11mhZmGatVtJr0nVNg&s=19

Quote from: Ed Vette on January 26, 2024, 01:26:13 PMWithout reading this entire thread, I think he was out of his lane commenting on this and I would imagine it didn't go down well with the brass. As a fan, I see it as dipping his toe in the water and I wonder what to expect of his future actions. He had to know that it would go viral and that tells me it's all about his ego and getting attention. I'm sure most of you disagree. It's going to take a while before I can get behind this guy.

I have to say, you summed it up well, Ed.  I share your view that a well-run organization people stick to their lane

Jonathan Taylor reset the market closer to where the Giants were offering on non-injury guarantees than what Barkley was asking. If you factor in the age differential (nearly two years) Taylor's $14m pa extension is over what Barkley will command IMO.

We can get a solid second contract veteran and a day two rookie for less than half of Saquon's potential contract demand and they should match the combined Saquon/Breida output.

We need to start to reshape the roster this year so we are better positioned when we get out from under the albatross QB contract next year.

Thibodeaux can moan and I know the locker room will groan but paying Barkley top of market value is not a decision that will help improve the overall roster. Schoen surely knows that.

Quote from: Ed Vette on January 26, 2024, 01:26:13 PMWithout reading this entire thread, I think he was out of his lane commenting on this and I would imagine it didn't go down well with the brass. As a fan, I see it as dipping his toe in the water and I wonder what to expect of his future actions. He had to know that it would go viral and that tells me it's all about his ego and getting attention. I'm sure most of you disagree. It's going to take a while before I can get behind this guy.

Ed: If you didn't read everything, I made the argument somewhere above that people misinterpreted his statement. I still DO agree with your "lanes" argument, but my point still holds true.  IMO, he was not throwing Jones under the bus by showing support for a player he believes deserved higher priority than Jones. He said nothing against (or about) Jones. Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on January 26, 2024, 01:59:44 PMEd: If you didn't read everything, I made the argument somewhere above that people misinterpreted his statement. I still DO agree with your "lanes" argument, but my point still holds true.  IMO, he was not throwing Jones under the bus by showing support for a player he believes deserved higher priority than Jones. He said nothing against (or about) Jones. Bob

Regardless if he was supporting Barkley or attacking Jones, players should avoid discussing contracts and other GM details.   It's more than fine to say you hope a player returns, but you clearly are leaving your lane when you discuss the merits of your GM's decisions or decisions to be.

Do we know what Barkley was offered?  Never saw those numbers.

Its really moot at this point regardless. 

It's never good when players make these types of comments.  KT probably shouldn't have done that, but I do wonder if there is a decent size group in the locker room that agree and he is saying what a lot are thinking.  If players were upset by it, I am sure they will all get over it if they haven't already. 

What really matters is the path forward to winning football which changes everyone's outlook and attitudes.  Not sure how DJ starting next year with no Barkley will playout in the locker room, but I think that is where this team is headed.