WHY? What is it other teams doing right?

[brownelvis54]

All teams have injuries all of them. But why is it when other teams have to refer and turn to their back ups their team still look potent? What the hell are we doing? We've seen many quarterbacks go down in these past few weeks some today and yet their team seemed to still have that spark and I'm sorry to say the same teams with their wounded starting quarterbacks and players I get the feeling they would beat us somehow.


What the hell are we doing wrong and what have we been doing wrong in the past decade it seems

[katkavage]

All teams have injuries all of them. But why is it when other teams have to refer and turn to their back ups their team still look potent? What the hell are we doing? We've seen many quarterbacks go down in these past few weeks some today and yet their team seemed to still have that spark and I'm sorry to say the same teams with their wounded starting quarterbacks and players I get the feeling they would beat us somehow.


What the hell are we doing wrong and what have we been doing wrong in the past decade it seems

Not many teams do it right. There are a few stellar franchises in how they run their teams: Ravens, Steelers, are the best. More recent examples: Niners and yes, our hated rival the Eagles. The Giants are and have always been too conservative to adapt to changing times and trends. They are not forward thinking and very risk adverse. It goes back to the owner.

[umassgrad]

Good question and I would add another: why can other teams make players we draft into really good players yet they suck when we have them? For example, Evan Engram.

[DaveBrown74]

All teams have injuries all of them. But why is it when other teams have to refer and turn to their back ups their team still look potent? What the hell are we doing? We've seen many quarterbacks go down in these past few weeks some today and yet their team seemed to still have that spark and I'm sorry to say the same teams with their wounded starting quarterbacks and players I get the feeling they would beat us somehow.


What the hell are we doing wrong and what have we been doing wrong in the past decade it seems

Totally fair question.

There are many parts to the answer, but I think one explanation is that we have done a downright awful job for a long time of drafting in the mid to later rounds. By not getting more competent players in those rounds, we make it virtually impossible to have true depth on this team. Depth is what gets you through periods with multiple starters being out. It's never good for any team when starters get hurt, but well constructed rosters weather it better than poorly constructed ones. Look at our O line depth and linebacker depth (as examples) for the past several years. O line is maybe a bad example because apart from one player we can't even get good starters there, but our depth just stinks in general and has for a long time. I think that's a big part of why we have been so bad in general for such a long time.

[Ed Vette]

Why do we drive on a Parkway but park in a Driveway?

The team is in a constant rebuild. Even though we are only on the third GM in the last ten years, replacing Head Coaches necessitate players that fit schemes because HCs bring in different Coordinators. That also sets some players back.

It's a tough thing to have your starting QB and the backup go down and it's also rare. I didn't see the Steeler's game but they lost their starting QB and lost a game they should have won. I guess you're referring to Browning's performance last night. Doesn't hurt when you're throwing to Jamar Chase with a Higgins threat and a solid run game.

But the Giants Offensive Line woes are a ten year disaster that many minds failed to fix. Can't try to figure that one out.

[katkavage]

So many teams have offensive line issues. Yes, the Giants problem there has gone on a long time. Too long. But why is the drafting bad? Why has the team struggled to find a good head coach since Coughlin? A capable GM? You got to look to the top. That is the constant.

[DaveBrown74]

All teams have injuries all of them. But why is it when other teams have to refer and turn to their back ups their team still look potent? What the hell are we doing? We've seen many quarterbacks go down in these past few weeks some today and yet their team seemed to still have that spark and I'm sorry to say the same teams with their wounded starting quarterbacks and players I get the feeling they would beat us somehow.


What the hell are we doing wrong and what have we been doing wrong in the past decade it seems

I will also respond to the OP with a question:


What would you say we consistently do right or get right as a franchise (over the last decade or so)? Can you point to anything about running a franchise that we are better than league average at? Because we know there are tons of things that we are worse than league average or near the bottom at. Can you or anyone here name one thing we do a better than average job at that helps an NFL team win games?


Drafting: below average

Coaching hires (in aggregate over last decade): below average

Front office: below average for past decade

Player development: Below average for last decade as evidenced by players who left doing better elsewhere

Training/medical/player safety: downright shameful results and no apparent desire to make changes

Free agency decisions grossly below average over past decade, including the two worst signings in franchise history

Analytics/innovation: Below average for last decade. Basically thumbed our nose at it for years when everyone else was ramping up.


What is one single thing we have done well over the last decade? I can't name one. Can anyone?

[kartanoman]

Not many teams do it right. There are a few stellar franchises in how they run their teams: Ravens, Steelers, are the best. More recent examples: Niners and yes, our hated rival the Eagles. The Giants are and have always been too conservative to adapt to changing times and trends. They are not forward thinking and very risk adverse. It goes back to the owner.

I think you are definitely on the right track when it comes to teams such as Baltimore, for example. But last season was a glowing example that not even their team was exempt from the issues the Giants are having when their key players, to include their starting QB, are injured for the entire season.

I would be interested in examples on how the Giants owner being risk averse translates to what their current GM and head coach are trying to do with what they inherited, what they are trying to do with the draft and cap capital they have, what their strategic plan is once they've put everything in place and why is that necessarily in alignment with being risk averse, per se?

Teams such as Baltimore, Pittsburgh, KC, Philly, SF and maybe Buffalo have all been contenders at varying stages for a long time now. There have been others which have come and gone. But KC, SF and Philly are the three powerhouses which have separated from the rest, with Baltimore, Dallas, Buffalo, Detroit now on the fringe.

I mean, we can risk profiles of each of these teams; however, it's the same story we talk about every day here. Philly, Dallas and now KC these days are in the high risk, high reward game in acquiring talent. SF has been a low to medium risk, medium to high reward team for moves such as McCaffrey and Chase Young. Detroit took a medium risk with their QB and yielded high reward. Campbell and company are slowly building a very good team. Baltimore is arguably the best run franchise in the league right now. Buffalo is a question mark at the moment. In deference, the Giants are in the midst of a transition so calling them risk averse at this point may not be the right call. In the past, they were medium to high risk, no reward in giving away their draft picks for a quick fix. Right now, they are in rebuild mode and it just takes time. Many of the teams above were in that situation at one point or another.

I appreciate the lack of patience and especially so in this disaster of a season. The team has been poorly run for a while, which ultimately falls on the owner. His quick fix schemes of hiring and firing head coaches every two years is the antithesis of risk averse. He finally made a good decision on a young, promising General Manager and now is the time to let the GM take his licks, get up, and get back in the ring.

George Young said it very well, and I use this quote to describe my own work to my teammates sometimes: "You have to be a bit maladjusted for this job." Truer words have never been spoken.

Peace!

[B1GBLUE]

All teams have injuries all of them. But why is it when other teams have to refer and turn to their back ups their team still look potent? What the hell are we doing? We've seen many quarterbacks go down in these past few weeks some today and yet their team seemed to still have that spark and I'm sorry to say the same teams with their wounded starting quarterbacks and players I get the feeling they would beat us somehow.


What the hell are we doing wrong and what have we been doing wrong in the past decade it seems

im going with coaching. good coaches get guys prepared whatever the circumstances are. pete caroll in seattle comes to mind. talent also matters.

[kartanoman]

I will also respond to the OP with a question:


What would you say we consistently do right or get right as a franchise (over the last decade or so)? Can you point to anything about running a franchise that we are better than league average at? Because we know there are tons of things that we are worse than league average or near the bottom at. Can you or anyone here name one thing we do a better than average job at that helps an NFL team win games?


Drafting: below average

Coaching hires (in aggregate over last decade): below average

Front office: below average for past decade

Player development: Below average for last decade as evidenced by players who left doing better elsewhere

Training/medical/player safety: downright shameful results and no apparent desire to make changes

Free agency decisions grossly below average over past decade, including the two worst signings in franchise history

Analytics/innovation: Below average for last decade. Basically thumbed our nose at it for years when everyone else was ramping up.


What is one single thing we have done well over the last decade? I can't name one. Can anyone?

Picked up Pro Bowl caliber place kickers?

Peace!

[katkavage]

I think you are definitely on the right track when it comes to teams such as Baltimore, for example. But last season was a glowing example that not even their team was exempt from the issues the Giants are having when their key players, to include their starting QB, are injured for the entire season.

I would be interested in examples on how the Giants owner being risk averse translates to what their current GM and head coach are trying to do with what they inherited, what they are trying to do with the draft and cap capital they have, what their strategic plan is once they've put everything in place and why is that necessarily in alignment with being risk averse, per se?

Teams such as Baltimore, Pittsburgh, KC, Philly, SF and maybe Buffalo have all been contenders at varying stages for a long time now. There have been others which have come and gone. But KC, SF and Philly are the three powerhouses which have separated from the rest, with Baltimore, Dallas, Buffalo, Detroit now on the fringe.

I mean, we can risk profiles of each of these teams; however, it's the same story we talk about every day here. Philly, Dallas and now KC these days are in the high risk, high reward game in acquiring talent. SF has been a low to medium risk, medium to high reward team for moves such as McCaffrey and Chase Young. Detroit took a medium risk with their QB and yielded high reward. Campbell and company are slowly building a very good team. Baltimore is arguably the best run franchise in the league right now. Buffalo is a question mark at the moment. In deference, the Giants are in the midst of a transition so calling them risk averse at this point may not be the right call. In the past, they were medium to high risk, no reward in giving away their draft picks for a quick fix. Right now, they are in rebuild mode and it just takes time. Many of the teams above were in that situation at one point or another.

I appreciate the lack of patience and especially so in this disaster of a season. The team has been poorly run for a while, which ultimately falls on the owner. His quick fix schemes of hiring and firing head coaches every two years is the antithesis of risk averse. He finally made a good decision on a young, promising General Manager and now is the time to let the GM take his licks, get up, and get back in the ring.

George Young said it very well, and I use this quote to describe my own work to my teammates sometimes: "You have to be a bit maladjusted for this job." Truer words have never been spoken.

Peace!

We agree, Kart. I mention Baltimore and Pittsburgh not because they win the Super Bowl every year or aren't susceptible to injuries that devastate a season, but that they bounce back quickly. They return to a winning mold soon after, season after season. They both have excellent head coaches, which helps, but those coaches did not have track records as head coaches before they were hired. Someone made the right hire. I hope Schoen can do his own thing without Mara's shadow over him, the way the quoted George Young did decades ago.

[DaveBrown74]

Picked up Pro Bowl caliber place kickers?

Peace!

You got me there. Although I don't think we have sent a single kicker to the actual Pro Bowl anytime recently, have we?

[kartanoman]

You got me there. Although I don't think we have sent a single kicker to the actual Pro Bowl anytime recently, have we?

Well, many have been named "alternate" choices as well as top choice for the NFC.

For example, last season, Graham Gano was selected as a second alternate (NOTE: never thought about anyone past the primary alternate) for the Pro Bowl Games.

But as an actual kicker in the Pro Bowl, the Giants have sent four (4) kickers to the game since its inception:

2018: Aldrick Rosas
2015: Josh Brown
2008: John Carney
1983: Ali Haji-Sheikh

Gano had earned a Pro Bowl spot during his time with Carolina.

Peace!

[EDjohnst1981]

The biggest problem is drafting

2nd overall Barkley
6th Jones
5th Thibs
7th Neal
17th Dex

Outside of Dex is there anyone there that would walk onto a superbowl contender?

If you're not getting your top 20 picks right, you're gonna be in a hole. We're in a hole.

[T200]

The biggest problem is drafting

2nd overall Barkley
6th Jones
5th Thibs
7th Neal
17th Dex

Outside of Dex is there anyone there that would walk onto a superbowl contender?

If you're not getting your top 20 picks right, you're gonna be in a hole. We're in a hole.

Andrew Thomas