State of play heading into FA day 2

[londonblue]

Roster better at:

OL - 2 starters added; Runyan LG/RG flex, Eluemunor RT/RG flex
Edge - Burns is a big upgrade at a huge price
ST - kept our own wth Gunner for a full year a small + (but need more)

Roster worse at:

QB - need at least QB2
RB - need another vet to help Singletary run by Committee
S - even if we like Belton, depth is an issue

Roster holes not yet touched:

DT - need more than Dex inside (keep A'Shawn?)
TE - especially if Waller goes but cannot rely on him if stays
WR1 - will have to be draft
CB - will Darious Williams sign?

Players we might yet want to keep
The most obvious options are T Phillips as swing T (might be later due to injury), Bredeson as back-up C and Robinson at DT. Hodgins at WR also likely IMO.

State of cap:

We have none given the reported deals for the signings. This means we need to create room for any more than veteran minimum deals and to sign draft picks. The obvious options are Waller retire/cut, Dex and AT restructures. Maybe a Slayton restructure or even an immediate restructure of the Burns deal.

Free Agency v Draft
The Burns trade reduces draft ammo. A trade for a QB now would eliminate it so have to think we are running back Jones and praying, making WR and two of DT/CB/S the most obvious day one and two draft targets. If we trade up for a QB losing day 2 and future picks we will be scouring late camp cuts for key pieces.

It has already been interesting 😉

[MightyGiants]

@londonblue

Excellent summary  Just one update, CB DW signed elsewhere


Even having slept on it and listened to two podcasts on the subject, I am still at a loss in terms of understanding what the Giants are thinking in terms of overall vision and strategy.  The heavy spending suggests that perhaps they see a big cap reduction in booting DJ from their roster in the future.  On the other hand, the spending of draft capital limits their ability to ensure they get a QB prospect they want.

Perhaps a lesser QB like Rattler or Pratt is in the team's future.

Schoen continues the Giant's trend of having one foot in the rebuild camp and the other foot in the win now camp.  I am not sure that success is possible with this approach.

[EliWasrobbed]

The moves yesterday guarantee we are taking a QB in the draft. For that (as long as it isn't overrated JJ) I am happy.

The Burns move saved what was shaping up to be disastrous first day

[MightyGiants]

I will add one more observation.   Schoen is clearly focusing his resources in the trenches now.  Instead of retaining his RB and S he invested his efforts in the O-line (not great resources but he made an effort) and the D-line (in the form of Edge Brian Burns).   So one trend is Schoen is going inside to out, not vice versa.

[Gmo11]

@londonblue

Excellent summary  Just one update, CB DW signed elsewhere


Even having slept on it and listened to two podcasts on the subject, I am still at a loss in terms of understanding what the Giants are thinking in terms of overall vision and strategy.  The heavy spending suggests that perhaps they see a big cap reduction in booting DJ from their roster in the future.  On the other hand, the spending of draft capital limits their ability to ensure they get a QB prospect they want.

Perhaps a lesser QB like Rattler or Pratt is in the team's future.

Schoen continues the Giant's trend of having one foot in the rebuild camp and the other foot in the win now camp.  I am not sure that success is possible with this approach.

I think he's looking at competing in 2025. The original plan when he got here was likely to dump Jones lose a lot in 2022 and 2023 and then target competing in 2024. That weird and mostly random playoff season screwed everything up.

All of a sudden you can't dump Jones and tank after all they just made the playoffs and that was the first time Jones looked even competent so perhaps Daboll could do what he did with Josh Allen and turn a middling QB into a stud? Alas Josh Allen he is not.

So now their plans got pushed back a year. But the moves make sense. If I were to guess from here they are probably taking a QB at 6. Whichever one is left. It tells me that they think this draft has a big 4 not a big 3 when it comes to QB. So they take one but sit him. Jones plays out the year. Then in 2025 the rookie who's not a rookie anymore takes over and hopefully starts taking this once proud franchise back to some sort of respectability.

I don't think they're as bad as they looked at times last year. They won 3 in a row with Devito for god's sake. The OL was abysmal and they've added two new pieces there already. And if Neal can't pull his head out of his ass a new RT gets drafted in the 1st round next season.

I think the plan makes sense but they still have to execute it.

[kartanoman]

I will add one more observation.  Schoen is clearly focusing his resources in the trenches now.  Instead of retaining his RB and S he invested his efforts in the O-line (not great resources but he made an effort) and the D-line (in the form of Edge Brian Burns).  So one trend is Schoen is going inside to out, not vice versa.

This is a good observation, Rich @MightyGiants , and it's the right thing to do. I wonder if the new O-Line coach had input into these signings as well. They're moving forward with fixing the line as they should have from the get-go and fingers crossed they get it right this time.

Peace!

[MightyGiants]

I think he's looking at competing in 2025. The original plan when he got here was likely to dump Jones lose a lot in 2022 and 2023 and then target competing in 2024. That weird and mostly random playoff season screwed everything up.

All of a sudden you can't dump Jones and tank after all they just made the playoffs and that was the first time Jones looked even competent so perhaps Daboll could do what he did with Josh Allen and turn a middling QB into a stud? Alas Josh Allen he is not.

So now their plans got pushed back a year. But the moves make sense. If I were to guess from here they are probably taking a QB at 6. Whichever one is left. It tells me that they think this draft has a big 4 not a big 3 when it comes to QB. So they take one but sit him. Jones plays out the year. Then in 2025 the rookie who's not a rookie anymore takes over and hopefully starts taking this once proud franchise back to some sort of respectability.

I don't think they're as bad as they looked at times last year. They won 3 in a row with Devito for god's sake. The OL was abysmal and they've added two new pieces there already. And if Neal can't pull his head out of his ass a new RT gets drafted in the 1st round next season.

I think the plan makes sense but they still have to execute it.

To be frank, I have no idea what NYG will do with their first pick.   Maybe they do take the 4 QB off the board and believe the 4th choice will be a winner.  Maybe they take an elite WR and a lower QB prospect with an eye toward next year's QB class. 

It's sort of funny, if they go WR in round one, they could (on paper)) have the makings of a pretty strong team minus a quality QB who can stay healthy.  Funny, how difficult it is to get a QB.  Still, if they do go WR, I think the team will be in a much better position to draft and develop a QB.  If they draft a QB, they will be lacking a true number-one receiving threat, and that will make developing the QB a far more difficult task with success far less certain.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

This is a good observation, Rich @MightyGiants , and it's the right thing to do. I wonder if the new O-Line coach had input into these signings as well. They're moving forward with fixing the line as they should have from the get-go and fingers crossed they get it right this time.

Peace!

Took the words right out of my mouth. Like the foundation of a house, a great football team needs a great trench - on both sides of the ball. Once you have a dominating trench, you can start adding the skill players to fit the long term strategy. And I had the same question as you, "how much input did Daboll's look alike (OLC Carmen Bricillo) have in choosing the FA offensive linemen we just picked up?".

I still think it would behoove the Giants to draft a stud DE to replace Leo (Fiske? Jenkins?, etc.), whilst keeping an eye on upgrading the special teams players. Which tells me Schoen is aware of this need after re-signing Coughlin and Gunner Olszewski. Personally, I'd like us to draft Ainias Smith who is a small WR (little man - huge heart..."dynamo in a small package"), a ST's offensive juggernaut as a PR/KR/gunner and is a do it all gadget player who plays WR and RB...but that's just me

[Jclayton92]

3 moves I'd like to see today:

Sign Calvin Ridley and cut Slayton

Sign Tredavious White, Adoree, or Gilmore to a 1 year prove it deal to give Hawkins 1 more year to develop.

And sign a space eater at DT.

On a side note, I thought Nunez Roches signed a 2 or 3 year deal but most places have him as a FA.

[zephirus]

The moves yesterday guarantee we are taking a QB in the draft. For that (as long as it isn't overrated JJ) I am happy.

The Burns move saved what was shaping up to be disastrous first day

No, they don't.  It certainly wouldn't be a surprise, but I would be equally not as surprised if they don't pick a quarterback.  Hate Jones all you want, and with good reason, but nothing that transpired yesterday predicates a drafting of a quarterback, at least not in the first round.  Schoen did already say that backup would need to be addressed and Taylor moving on yesterday does solidify the backup need.

[Philosophers]

Here is what I think.

1) having just drafted Hyatt last year who was a #1 in college, do they see him and Robinson as a developing WR1 and 2?  If they think these FA OL moves plus a new OL coach makes that unit better, I can see them going into 2024 with DJ but using 6th pick to get a future QB knowing injury history of DJ.

With rest of draft capital, they pick a penetrating 3 tech DT like a Byron Murphy, Kris Jenkins, Michael Hall, etc.

I think they'll look for an explosive RB ala Achane.  Is Jaylen Wright that option?  I dont think Singletary teplaces Barkley fully.

There are good mid-round safeties. Bi can see them using a 4th or 5th round pick on someone like Cole Bishop out of Utah.

[Gmo11]

To be frank, I have no idea what NYG will do with their first pick.   Maybe they do take the 4 QB off the board and believe the 4th choice will be a winner.  Maybe they take an elite WR and a lower QB prospect with an eye toward next year's QB class. 

It's sort of funny, if they go WR in round one, they could (on paper)) have the makings of a pretty strong team minus a quality QB who can stay healthy.  Funny, how difficult it is to get a QB.  Still, if they do go WR, I think the team will be in a much better position to draft and develop a QB.  If they draft a QB, they will be lacking a true number-one receiving threat, and that will make developing the QB a far more difficult task with success far less certain.

I love what I saw out of Hyatt without any semblance of decent QB play.  I can't wait to see him with somebody that can throw a forward pass as he was open last year constantly.  When they actually played him of course. 

So I do think that they are close enough with Hyatt, Wandale, Hodgins, Slayton and (if healthy ever) Waller than they are at QB.  Which is why I feel like they lean towards QB unless Maye is the one that falls and like me they don't like him very much at all at which point they go stud WR which I certainly wouldn't be mad at either.

The FA moves they've made to me have pretty much taken everything off the board at 6 besides QB/WR which may have already been the case even before the moves just given how the top of the draft is likely to fall, but after these moves to me it eliminates all doubt.  It's WR or QB first and then we go from there.

[londonblue]

FWIW, I think it is clear Schoen is shifting resource allocation to positions he think have most value and is trying to raise our floor with better line play.

I don't think we can force a QB but IF they (not we!) have a conviction on one in the draft they need to move heaven and earth to get him.

If we do not see a QB we love in reach then I would expect Schoen to focus on higher impact positions such as WR-X, CB2, 3T DT on days one and two.

The three picks on day 3 plus remaining FA and camp cuts can improve depth at S, TE, NCB and perhaps also still at areas that already received some attention in RB, OL, ST.

Our ceiling will be as high as our QB play. Our floor will be determined in the trenches and by our general roster depth.

[uconnjack8]

FWIW, I think it is clear Schoen is shifting resource allocation to positions he think have most value and is trying to raise our floor with better line play.

I don't think we can force a QB but IF they (not we!) have a conviction on one in the draft they need to move heaven and earth to get him.

If we do not see a QB we love in reach then I would expect Schoen to focus on higher impact positions such as WR-X, CB2, 3T DT on days one and two.

The three picks on day 2 plus remaining FA and camp cuts can improve depth at S, TE, NCB and perhaps also still at areas that already received some attention in RB, OL, ST.

Our ceiling will be as high as our QB play. Our floor will be determined in the trenches and by our general roster depth.

Aren't they down to two day 2 picks?

[londonblue]

It should read day 3...