Big Blue Huddle

 

Quote from: TDToomer on Today at 09:31:16 AMRespectful Islanders chat for a change in this thread. I appreciate that. So I will be respectful when I ask the following honest question to you Rangers fans. Why is Rempe so overhyped? He has played 21 NHL games and has 3 points. When he is not scoring at a .14 PPG pace he is committing an ungodly amount of penalties and is on suspension watch by the league. But he is all over the ESPN like he is some prodigy Conner Bedard and their hosts and Rangers fans won't shut up about him.

What am I missing here? He seems like a one dimensional big guy who plays an outdated game when stars needed protection. Yes my team is guilty of having players like this. In fact he reminds me a bit of Matt Martin when he broke into the NHL at a similar age with similar stats. But no one overrated him and the Islanders were in a rebuild at the time with a young superstar John Tavares, not a playoff team trying to win the cup. Surely even great teams need roll players but they never get as much hype as he has gotten. The John Scott types only make sports center when they do something wrong. 

It's a combination of a couple of things but the gist of it is he's just fun.  He make his debut in the outdoor stadium game and fights a guy in 5 seconds.  Wins the fight.  And the fans go nuts.  Then he goes on a tear fighting everybody and winning just about every fight he's in to the point that they almost had to tell him to tone it down because you can't keep fighting every single day.

His actual play is not skillful by any means but he does set a tone.  I have to admit, for the last like 5 years or so I've agreed with you that a guy like him probably isn't necessary anymore and the team would be better off with another skill guy instead taking that roster spot.  But after watching the impact that Rempe has on the team with his energy and bone crushing hits and the way the fans get going every time he's on the ice...he does provide value to the team that another 4th liner with more skill like say a Goodrow wouldn't. 

Tom Wilson, noted jackass, has terrorized the Rangers in these playoffs games for years with all of his nonsense.  Picking on guys smaller than him regularly and just being a scumbag of the highest order.  But Wilson didn't do much of anything this series besides shove Adam Fox around after the Rangers scored a goal in Game 4. And I don't know that Rempe being around had anything to do with it or not, but I know I kept waiting for Wilson to do something dirty so Rempe could put his fist through his face and it just never happened. 

If Jones stinks as he is very likely to do, and JJ goes on to have a great season with Minnesota (as he is also likely to have with Jefferson over there) Schoen's seat gets a little hotter but I'm not sure they fire him.

What's interesting to me is it would almost be a more fireable offense if the Giants won 7-8 games next year than it would be if they won 3.  If they end up with one of the top 2 or 3 picks in the draft next season he can take his QB and the Giants are set for a while (presuming that QB doesn't also stink which if he does he's fired soon anyway) But if they win 7 games and pick around 9 or 10 in the draft and are no longer in a position to take a QB, when he was in prime position to take one this year, and then JJ looks good in Minnesota...that to me is worse. I could see Mara and Co. asking him what the hell are we supposed to do now? And in this scenario... there's not a really good answer to that question.

I will say this about that clip:

There's not a lot of things that could have happened on draft day that would have made me mad.  Picking Nabers or Rome was fine with me.  I even warmed up to taking JJ at 6 if they loved him.  Trading down I also would have been totally fine with if like Mike says they wanted JJ but felt they could drop down a few spots and get him later. 

But.

If they had managed to trade all the way up to #2 and taken Drake Maye over Jayden Daniels I'd have about lost my damn mind.  I'm not any sort of expert but to my untrained eyes it would be an unconscionable decision on par with taking Jones at 6. 

I like it.  I've held the view for a while now that the team isn't THAT far off they just are far off at the QB position.  Which is why I was rooting for a QB to be picked at 6 this year.  Nabers is pretty damn good though.

The defense is young and talented.  The offensive line remains to be seen what happens with those guys but the rest of it is solid minus the QB.  So this time next year they should be all in on getting a new QB by any means necessary and should they do that, I think they have a chance to be in on a division title.

Motivation and work ethic have never been things I question about Jones.  His ability to play NFL football on the other hand...

Meaning I don't think any sort of message even needs to be sent.  He's trying to be the absolute best he can be every year he's just not very good at this.  Few people are.  That's why they get paid so much money! 

I don't think Maye would have been much better though so I'm kinda glad that deal never actually happened.

Quote from: madbadger on April 26, 2024, 10:02:23 PMWhy do posters take a short term view of the draft? This draft isn't about next year, it's about the next 5-7 years. Jones is gone at the end of next year. It would be nice to have a competent offense ready to go for the next guy....

Are Nubin and Phillips ineligible for play after this season?  If they can build a top level defense this season, with young and talented players under contract, then that defense should still be top level in 2025.  This team had a lot of holes on both sides of the ball and they filled a couple today.  I don't think we can ask too much more than that.

Quote from: madbadger on April 26, 2024, 09:53:19 PMI don't get it. Coming into the draft the defense was clearly better than the offense and we chose to use three of our first four picks to add to the defense. I guess they're just lanning on winning games 14-10. Not knocking adding Burns, Nubin or Phillips. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Whether they draft an OL or a RB or another WR in the 3rd round they are still going to be stuck with Jones which limits how effective that offense can really be.  There are no limits to how good this defense could be though.  They needed a safety and they got the best one in the draft.  They needed a CB so they got one of those.  You hit the nail on the head:  Their best chance to win games next season is going to be to win them 14-10.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 08:41:29 PMThe Chiefs won the Super Bowl with their defense

Mahomes helped a bit.  But point taken that the defense carried them all season being one of the very best.  I think the Giants are building a similar type of defense that can carry the team and a less than stellar offense on their backs.

Quote from: madbadger on April 26, 2024, 08:30:34 PMI guess that means that they aren't as concerned at corner as the fans are. He's a really good safety even if he's a rodent.

I think once there was that run on CBs they were left out in the cold but as a very pleasant consolation prize they get the best safety in the draft and they do have a McKinney sized hole at Safety so I do like this pick a lot.  And they would have had to trade up to get one of the CBs which I don't think they wanted to do given they don't have a ton of picks this year as it is.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 10:18:00 AMI have to confess that when I read comments like this, I feel like people have become emotionally invested in DJ's outcome.  Are you suggesting that protection and receiving don't matter and that a good QB can magically put up big numbers?  That is clearly what the term "excuse making" suggests.  An impartial observer would refer to what you call "excuse making" as a reasoned appreciation that a QB's performance isn't in a vacuum.  The support a QB receives in terms of coaching, protection, and receiving weapons impacts both their play and their development.  It sure seems like your "feelings" are rather perjurative to those who try to have a deeper appreciation of the game.

I'm suggesting, as I wrote in the rest of that post, that when plays were there to be made he didn't make them.  Even if they hadn't won a single game more than they did if the plays that were available to be made were made we'd feel better about Jones.  He simply didn't make them.  Maybe there were only 3 or 4 plays on a given game where he had open receivers and decent protection.  He has to be able to make those plays and he didn't.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 09:15:49 AMTim,

Did you expect Jones to be somewhere other than at the bottom of the list for deep throws when he had historically bad protection and poor receivers?  That is why I answered a question with a question.  The subtext of your question is that Jones should be held responsible for the historically bad support he received last season.

He should be held responsible for his own play though.  Which at times feels like doesn't happen with all the excuse making.  During any given day, even with an awful OL, there will be plays available to  be made.  Maybe not as many as there could be or even should be but there are some.  Last season he made damn near none of those plays save the Arizona 2nd half.  Which let's also not just pretend the 1st half of that game didn't happen. 

But therein lies precisely the problem with Jones.  He'll give you that Arizona 2nd half every once in a while.  And you'll be fooled into thinking "Hey look this guy has it!" He fooled the Giants front office after one season of simply not horrific football.  But instead of building on that performance he takes 3 steps backwards and has to start all over.  It's the very definition of QB hell.  He's not bad enough to get you into the top 3 so you can actually draft his replacement but he's not good enough to win anything substantial with.

If he could make those plays that present themselves, even in losses, we would be more inclined to say well they lost but that really wasn't his fault.  He made the plays he had to make they just didn't give him enough of them to actually win the game.  The problem a lot of us have is he rarely makes the plays he has, and last year in particular he was just dumping it off at an alarming rate.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 26, 2024, 09:11:32 AMHi,

No one said Nabers is going to magically transform Daniel Jones into an elite passer, or become an elite QB.

Here is what I have said to others and I'll say the same thing to you.

Daniel Jones has played a total of five seasons in the NFL.

In the two seasons he had a decent offensive line, ranked 18th and 17th, he had his best years.

In 2022 when the O line performed about average, he posted 3,900 total yards which included his rushing stats, and a QBR of 60.2 which ranked 6th, and a 92.3 RTG which ranked 13th.

I hear that you are saying the Giants weren't a good team in 2022, but the fact that he posted those kinds of numbers on a bad team, and helped them make the playoffs, what would happen if he was actually on a good team?

For instance, the Giants have added an elite #1 WR, and if they upgrade the O line from 30th to say around 15th, do you think Daniel Jones' stats will improve? and will the Giants begin to win again?

If the goal is to win 8 games instead of the usual 5 or 6 then yes this is a great situation. And Jones can do that with all these playmakers around him carrying the load.

If the goal is to win multiple playoff games and/or a super bowl they're going to need a better QB and they'll need him quick before Nabers becomes very expensive.

Quote from: T200 on April 26, 2024, 08:53:48 AMHow do you separate the talent from the player? As talented as Nabers is, he is still one player.

I'm onboard with the pick because I trust Schoen and Daboll still. I'm a little doubtful that this pick will move the offensive needle much.

My concern is that as a rookie, they are chomping at the bit to make an impact. They want to get the ball in their hands to showcase their skills. If Jones is skittish in the pocket and can't/won't deliver the ball to him and the other receivers, frustration and demotivation will set in.

If Jones can't get him the ball, Nabers will be the equivalent of a Ferrari sitting in the garage.

And they already had one of those in Hyatt last year. I love Nabers. And they are stuck with Jones this year no matter what. But it they can't find Jones replacement next year by the time they do Nabers will be approaching free agency and this whole thing would be wasted. No matter how special he is.

Quote from: TONKA56 on April 26, 2024, 08:35:38 AMIs Nabers the kind of guy that will flap his arms, talk smack to his quarterback, and make remarks to the media if things aren't going well?

Don't know. But I think we'll find out.