Big Blue Huddle

Really depends on how the college kids grade out. Does one of the big-2 QBs grade out to be special? If no, then make the trade.

This may seem like a small, unimportant incident, but to me it speaks to a societal issue of lack of integrity. She cheats at her job and feels no shame in doing so, because people in so many of our industries cheat, cut corners, lie, and feel no sense of responsibility or accountability.

I realize I'm becoming the "get off my lawn" guy but to me this is why our government is full of people who lack integrity. It's endemic in our society.

If sideline reporters don't matter, then don't have sideline reporters. If you're going to have sideline reporters at the very least don't knowingly allow them to lie to the audience. Is that really too high a bar?

Quote from: kingm56 on November 14, 2023, 09:28:53 AMI don't understand the notion that we only have 6 starts to evaluate DJ. There's now 5 (actually 8) years of data to effectively judge DJ. Said data, beyond question, demonstrates DJ is a well below average NFL passer.

Need to give DJ 7 or 8 more years so he can be properly evaluated.<sarcasm>

This is why they call it QB hell. It's like a nightmare you can't wake up from. We just keep repeating the same debates about the QB position year after year while the organization performs like the Jets.

Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2023, 10:21:25 PMDumb article.

To summarize for everyone who didn't read the article: The Giants may or may not draft a QB to replace Jones.   

Lol. That about sums it up.

Yeah. CJ Stroud is so lucky to be surrounded by great players and coaches. He just lucked into a great situation. It's amazing how average and below average players magically became good players once CJ Stroud took over at QB. <sarcasm>

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1724175511645999191?t=lapJPA5BmKK4qRSRfWf2tg&s=19

It might be easier to list the staff who should be retained. I can't think of anyone who I think must be brought back.

Obviously you want Schoen to keep his front office hires. Any of the legacy guys can go.

New medical and training staffs.

I don't care if either of the coordinators are let go. I probably have more confidence in Wink than Kafka but Wink won't be effective without better players. We at least need new faces for the OL and specials I would think.

Obviously we need better players and it all starts there but someone has to be held accountable. You can't just let an entire coaching staff skate after a season like this.

It was a lost season long before Danny DeVito started a game. Let's not forget all the preseason hype was followed by a full strength 40-0 humiliating loss to Dallas. This is what Daboll prepared the team for.

I watched Daboll's post-game presser and he sounds disconnected from reality. Not that I expect him to dump on his team but his answers make it sound like he thinks these games aren't complete blowouts. Have real questions about Daboll's temperament and also whether he is not just overwhelmed coaching in NY.

It makes me think of the famous MLK quote: "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 13, 2023, 09:26:00 AMThey were competitive last year with a QB who is likely to be replaced due to not being good enough, so I'm not sure I agree with this.

Agreed. The Giants need a QB and a bunch of pieces to be a Super Bowl team. But building a Super Bowl team is a different standard than building a team that isn't a national joke which is what they are today.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 09:19:06 AMDoes anyone think Stroud would have made a difference in this team yesterday?

This isn't the question to ask. The question is what would this team look like right now had you replaced Daniel Jones with CJ Stroud in April. Is this team 2-8 right now with the worst offense in football.

Stroud is making Noah Brown look like Tyreek Hill. Imagine what Stroud could do with a guy like Jalin Hyatt over a full season.

CJ Stroud is incredible. Anyone who can't see how he has transformed Houston is kidding themselves.

https://x.com/allday_ajking/status/1723912095987638689?t=426p5rBqrRzuNn2sNN7djw&s=09

Good question, Dave. I think the meaning of the term "bust" has changed over the years. And as you said, people will define it in whatever way suits them. When I was a kid, guys like Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple weren't labeled busts. They were called below average or bad players but they were starters for a significant time so they weren't really busts. But these days they are called busts. Guys like Thomas Lewis and Derek Brown were busts because they couldn't earn their way on the field or keep a starting job.

Now part of that is in this era first round picks are handed starting jobs without earning them. But we still see examples of guys like Deandre Baker and Kadarius Toney who are gifted starting jobs they didn't earn but prove themselves to be busts anyway because they are so lousy in character and performance that they force decision makers to give up on them quickly.

The QB position is a little more complicated to assess because it's the keystone to everything else. It's hard to be an effective QB if you aren't able to elevate the play of your teammates.

By that measure, Jones is a bust. He elevates no one and he arguably makes his teammates look worse out there. But he has held a starting job for years so that puts him in the category with guys like Flowers and Apple, not with Baker and Toney.

If people want to say he's not a bust because he's been a starter, then that's fair. But in my view they'd also have to agree that Flowers and Apple weren't busts. Jones could run fast and he tried hard, so defenses had to account for him, but beyond that he didn't consistently do any of the things you'd expect from a higher tier starting QB.

To me he's a bust simply because the organization and their compliant beat writers and social media personalities tried to sell him as a franchise QB, which he's not and never has been. That's not his fault but sometimes players are a victim of their circumstances. If he was a 3rd round pick like Hostetler and made relatively little money, I have no doubt he'd be viewed in a more favorable light. He'd be thought of as an overachiever. A guy with limited talent who gave the team everything he had. But he took the money so it is what it is.

Someone raised the question of Daboll and Schoen's complicity. Yes, both men along with ownership and anyone else involved are complicit in creating the fairytale of Daniel Jones as a franchise QB who was worth franchise QB money (even if only for a 2 year commitment). That 2 years, on top of the 4 years of his rookie contract, have left this team in QB hell for what will be 6 years all because no one with any power in the organization was willing to call a spade a spade. You don't make your team better through public relations and creating a fairytale that your QB has skills that aren't there. He was never anything more than a fast guy with a ton of heart who was physically fragile and mentally overwhelmed.

In my book the contract combined with his draft position makes him a bust and yes, leadership is more than 50% to blame for this debacle.

I'm not sure what point is being made here? How many QBs were drafted #1 overall and how many were drafted with all subsequent picks?

There were many more QBs drafted who weren't #1 overall so there is obviously going to be more successful QBs from that category. That doesn't say anything about the value of drafting a QB #1 overall. It just tells me if I draft one player #1 overall and 20 players after #1 overall, I'm more likely to find a franchise QB from the pool of 20 players. But that doesn't help me build my team unless I actually drafted each of those 20 QBs and gave them all of the same coaching and development they would've received on separate teams. It isn't practical or feasible.

In other words, if you're buying a raffle ticket and you can only buy one, you want the one with the best odds and highest payout. You don't buy the raffle ticket with worse odds and a smaller payout.

Don't draft a franchise QB because the team stinks? Lol, now I've heard it all. If that were even remotely true they should go ahead and disband the franchise now.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 08, 2023, 01:24:33 PMAgreed.

Would you agree though that it's worth throwing the kitchen sink at a trade offer for Chicago (or whomever) for one of those top two picks, provided:

(1) The GM absolutely believes both of them have what it takes to be stars, and

(2) A trade is possible (albeit there may be one or more other suitor)

100% you make the trade if your guy is there.