Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: brownelvis54 on November 08, 2023, 11:58:25 AMThree scenarios here:

1-Draft Harrison Jr and in the 2nd round get a QB (Bo Nix)

2-Draft J.J. McCarthy

3-Take a gamble and trade back (not too far) and HOPE J.J. McCarthy is there when we pick in the 1st round

Yes, everyone wants one of the big-2 QBs but the original question in this thread asked us to assume that ship has sailed and we can't get one of those two QBs. So you've laid out the three most likely scenarios. I would add a fourth option would be to draft an elite OLT if he grades out that high.

My personal feeling is to avoid taking the 3rd best QB unless you are absolutely convinced that he has top-5 QB potential. I don't want another Daniel Jones situation where we sacrifice half a decade on a guy with some nice traits who isn't good enough to put it all together on the field.

Depends on how the big OTs grade out. Jonathan Ogden was drafted the same year as Harrison's dad. If you have a chance at a Jonathan Ogden you take him ahead of Harrison or Keyshawn or anyone else who isn't a QB and isn't named Lawrence Taylor. If the OTs aren't Ogden special, then you take Harrison.

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 08:13:16 AMH-T: Which was worse - the handling of Jones by the Giants or the case of David Carr in Houston? Bob

I will say this about David Carr. The year Houston replaced him with Matt Schaub, Houston's offense improved from 28th to 14th with the same personnel. Then they had a top-5 offense the next 3 years.

It's easy to blame everyone but the QB. The reality is that David Carr was a bad player. Matt Schaub took the same cast of characters Carr had and made them look good. You have to give Houston credit for moving on from Carr and switching to Schaub so the offense could finally prosper. Sometimes it really is the QBs fault.

Ownership's biggest fault is deluding themselves, beat writers, and the fan base into believing a mediocre talent is actually a franchise QB. It's the same playbook countless organizations have followed only to end up in QB hell.

Back to the thread topic, is this actually farewell for DJ? He has a guaranteed salary next season of $35.5 million. I would think that means he has to at least go through the motions of rehabbing with the Giants in hopes of resuming his career as a "franchise" QB. A lot depends obviously on the draft but also on the timeline for DJ's recovery.

This place has become a meat grinder for coaches. Daboll can stay or go. I'm not sure what's going to change either way until Jon Mara takes a look in the mirror and does a reality check. Mara's prioritization of public relations over accountability for players is the biggest issue. The coaches are window dressing at this point for an organization that wants to pretend its players are better than they actually are.

Good luck in Seattle. I won't miss him.

Leonard Williams made more than $82 million over 61 games with the Giants. For that kind of money you should expect more dominant performances than the handful he actually delivered as a Giant.

Good for Daboll. Under John Mara's leadership this organization has bent over backward to anoint rookies, to the detriment of those players and the organization as a whole in my opinion. Parcells wouldn't have stood for it. Parcells wanted players to earn everything they got, including praise. Same with Coughlin. Mara is more interested in public relations and shaping the narrative on social media then in allowing players to naturally develop and earn their status the old fashioned way. Just my two cents.

I generally agree that longevity isn't a good measure for draft success but it does seem as though 2013 has less longevity than other drafts.

Active players by draft year (1st round only):

2010: 4
2011: 7
2012: 7
2013: 4
2014: 12
2015: 19
2016: 20

Looking at Pro Bowl and All Pro selections, 2013 had 5 players selected All Pro and 12 selected to the Pro Bowl at least once.

Looking 3 years before and 3 years after, the 2013 draft looks fairly normal, not great but also not catastrophically bad.

All Pro players:
2010: 9
2011: 11
2012: 7
2013: 5
2014: 4
2015: 4
2016: 5

Pro Bowl players:
2010: 17
2011: 16
2012: 14
2013: 12
2014: 17
2015: 12
2016: 11

Granted, counting number of players who made All Pro or Pro Bowl isn't the best measure either. For example, Carson Wentz made an All Pro team but is widely viewed as a bust after a promising start.

Just eyeballing the list of players in 2023, the top-10 looks particularly weak. 6 of the 10 players started in the league 3 years or less. That looks really bad. The rest of the 1st round looks fairly normal but there aren't any future hall of famers either other than Hopkins who has a shot. A bunch of these guys had solid careers, there just isn't a ton of star power there.

Overall, 2013 looks to me like the top-10 had more outright busts than one would expect. The rest of the 1st round looks solid enough but there aren't enough big stars to compensate for the multiple massive failures in the top-10.

He's played 6 games over the last 3 seasons. He was fortunate to be able to collect his rookie contract in full. Get well and good luck in whatever you do next.

At least Gettleman isn't still here or he might try to sign Lemieux to a 3 year, 15 million extension.

https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1714666644570603538?t=CzSToyUN0brbmbgKZCvt9A&s=19

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 18, 2023, 02:34:51 PMThe idea that a fifth year starting QB making $40mm a year needs to "learn from " a $5mm/yr journeyman veteran backup in the later stages of his career is mind-boggling.

Is anyone saying Jalen Hurts can benefit from leaning from Marcus Mariotta? Or that Brock Purdy would stand to benefit from learning from Sam Darnold?

I agree with you. I would just add that if Jones has things to learn from Taylor, he would've picked them up over the last two training camps. He shouldn't be sitting on the bench making 40 million just learning how to do the fundamentals we expect a professional QB to do.

Quote from: True Blue on October 18, 2023, 11:55:26 AMThat's the biggest thing that most are overlooking.

If that $40M went toward G and OL Depth and other areas, a Tyrod led team may actually be much more effective.

Agreed. It wasn't a question of Daniel or Tyrod. It was a question of Daniel or Tyrod and better players. Plus moving on from Daniel would've unburdened the franchise of the fairytale that Daniel Jones is a franchise QB, which has been holding the organization back for 5 years. We're still stuck in the Gettleman era and will be until his contract is off the books.

Quote from: Bob In PA on October 17, 2023, 02:56:31 PMI agree Jones doesn't show what I hoped for (like what I see from most current top-flight NFL QB's).

I think I see where you're going with this thought. I guess the question for you (and Mara, Schoen, Daboll, etc) is to what degree it's affecting or not affecting the team, and whether you expect to see progress over the rest of the season and into next season.

Quote from: McGIANTS on October 17, 2023, 02:26:36 PMHello BBH. It's been a while since I last posted. Let's not forget that Taylor has a lot more experience than Jones too. Plus I think the broadcast said he played for six different teams. So you would think he would pick up a few things in his time in the league. So naturally he would look better than Jones. But they still didn't score any touchdowns.

Welcome back. Unfortunately the Giants paid Daniel Jones to be the leader this team needs. He hasn't gotten it done and it's not clear he's any better than the journeyman Tyrod Taylor. This is what they call QB hell.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 17, 2023, 12:53:00 PMOr maybe the QB was more adept at pocket manipulation, rush awareness, and processing speed/effectiveness. He also took more shots downfield which impacts what kind of looks you get from the defense.

All true. In addition,there is some PFF data floating around out there that suggests this week's pressure percentage was similar to the first 5 weeks but Tyrod's pressure to sack percentage was about half that of Daniel Jones.