Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on February 11, 2024, 09:11:42 AMI think Jeremy Shockey was an inflection point for the Giants which led to their future success.  For the few seasons prior to him becoming a Giant, the Giants defense owned the Giants offense, kicking its a$$ in every practice.  What resulted was an offense that lacked confidence.  After Shockey gets drafted, at the rookie dinner with the team, he refused to stand up and sing.  Then, he got into a fight with Brandon Short, the LB.  As practices unfolded he started to beat defenders and pushing and shoving them, then other offensive players responded.  The offense got an identity, got confident and the rest is history.

Yes, he 100% helped change the culture. I thought Quenton Nelson could have been that guy a few years ago. He was a big missed opportunity for this team.

Quote from: kartanoman on February 11, 2024, 07:07:23 AMShockey was Jim Fassel's guy from the get-go for all the reasons mentioned above. In short, a disruptive force. He was all that and more in his early years.

I always believed Shockey was a team player from the standpoint he cared about his teammates, as well as his quarterback, but was known to speak his mind, like Tiki, to the press, which frustrated Coughlin. By 2007, after he sustained his injury, the contrasting style of Kevin Boss was so great that it seemed Eli performed better with the younger TE in the lineup. Shockey was already disgruntled and on the way out. The reasons were because he wanted to stand on the sideline during the Super Bowl and was told no. But it was a lot of other things as well. This sums it up well:

Inside Jeremy Shockey's Wild Giants Tenure

Peace!

That book excerpt is terrific. Really enjoyed reading it. Thanks for sharing!

Shockey made plays that could turn the momentum in a game. He was fun to watch. But his overall production always left you wanting more.

He lived up to his draft position for sure. There were a few players drafted later who were better players (Ed Reed) but there were also a lot of busts and mediocre players. They needed a weapon on offense and he was the best one in that draft.

He was a bad teammate. Disruptive and self centered. But he was one of the most competitive players on the field and cared about winning. Some teams need a player like Shockey stirring the pot. I'd want him on this iteration of the Giants to break them out of their low expectations and excuse making doldrums. But his personality didn't mesh well with Eli.

I also wonder how that 2008 season would have gone if they hadn't traded Shockey. When Plax shot himself, the team basically folded. You have to wonder how things could have gone if they still had Shockey on the team. Not to mention they traded him for basically nothing. Clint Sintim and Rhett Bomar which is a less than nothing return for a quality TE.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on February 10, 2024, 09:02:25 PMDoc, I never said not to plan for the future, not sure how you got that out of what I said. Rich poster an article that said teams might move up for a QB and I agree that some teams will. The point I was making, is the fact that every year there are can't miss players (especially at QB) and some (a lot) don't pan out. Unless a QB we love falls to us at 6...then the plan should be trading back enough to still get a player we need, while getting more picks. We are not a QB away from being any good. We are officially in rebuild mode.

Why does trading back have to be the plan if no franchise QB is available? I agree it should be considered but it shouldn't be automatic. This team needs a few impact players a lot more than it needs a lot of average players. The last time the Giants had a shot at one of those guys they passed on an impact linebacker and an impact OL. They ended up with Toney who is long gone and Neal who isn't going to last much longer if he doesn't improve. And they still need an impact pass rusher and OL.

So who specifically are they trading back for? They'd better know and they'd better be right. Because even if they can't get a QB, they may have a shot at an impact receiver or OL.

It's not the quantity of the picks, it's the quality. It's always the quality. Accumulating more picks is a smart thing to do when you've done a good job with your evaluations and you know the top prospects aren't as good as people think. As far as I'm concerned, if they trade back, they'd better be sure they aren't passing on the chance to draft the next Justin Jefferson or the next Ryan Ramczyk.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on February 10, 2024, 07:02:44 PMThis means nothing there's been quarterback classes where everyone is excited about in almost all the quarterbacks were bust. I'm thinking about Dante Culpepper's draft class.

Scouts were not big on Brock Purdy yet he's playing in the Super Bowl tomorrow

How do you plan for the future if you don't make a plan and just hope for the best? When does probability factor in?

Quote from: kingm56 on February 09, 2024, 10:47:11 AMlol. The problem is, DJ has yet to  approach Smith's production...not even close.  We're hoping he can become Smith, which is a problem in itself. 

Exactly. We're hoping DJ can become Alex Smith in the same way we're hoping Evan Neal becomes David Diehl. It would be great if it happens but you don't build a football team based on "it would be great if" scenarios. And you've got to keep a very short leash on good but not great potential.

Quote from: BluesCruz on February 09, 2024, 02:51:18 PMAs Jack Nickelson famously proclaimed

"you cannot handle the truth!"

Jones is one of the worst QBs in the league.  He has no instinct or cache
He moves like a robot and holds the world record for dumpoff passes

often to a RB who bobbles them

All true. Daniel Jones also has a career record 14 games under .500, has QBed some of the worst offenses in franchise history, and now has a bloated cap number for a contract he never deserved.

The old generation of Giants fans is lost. Future generations will study the Jones era and place him in his proper historical context. We're going to have to weather the storm of bad football being defended by propagandists and their stooges. In many ways following the Giants is like following politics. A small group of incompetents who condition the public to tolerate the BS.

It's not a question of which is the more talented QB. Jones is. In reality it's a question of what each player does for the franchise. Starting DeVito allows the organization to accept its status as a bad team in need of a new direction. Starting Jones allows the organization to continue the fraud they've been selling to fans that this team can actually compete for a championship.

Quote from: katkavage on February 08, 2024, 01:23:24 PMThe offensive line and QB need to be fixed concurrently. They need each other.

True. But the poll is asking about the first round pick specifically.

Quote from: Bob In PA on February 05, 2024, 04:35:53 PMYes, Saquon is an "old school" type of person who could have gone elsewhere in college, too, but chose using the same standards and considerations he is again falling back on by doing all he can to stay with the Giants. Bob

It's become rare for a player in a long-term bad situation to want to stay and be part of the solution. Tip of the cap to Saquon for this.

Quote from: Painter on February 05, 2024, 03:12:42 PMThose who I suggested may be worried by any sort of success this season are those who not only want Daniel Jones to be gone next year, but are hoping that it will happen even sooner by whatever means. That, of course, is their prerogative, and a fair and reasonable one in most cases.

There are, however, some who seem to have chosen to blame and ridicule Jones as if he has been personally and individually responsible for the team's failings when it is unarguable that no one  has made a greater effort and commitment to winning than has he. If I was in search of blame, I would look elsewhere whether in terms of the recent decade-long failure, or its far more lengthy, and exclusive Maraship history.

Cheers!

GM, HC, and QB hold unique positions that have a greater impact on a team's fortunes than most other titles. Heavy is the head. I agree with you that all roads lead to Mara's office.

The worry from fans is not in replicating the 2022 season. Most fans would enjoy the ride for whatever it's worth. The front office and coaches, on the other hand, should be very worried about one player who handicaps any potential ceiling the team has.

Either way, the likelihood of another 2022 season, from an organization that has the worst record in the conference over the past decade, and second worst only to the Jets, is not great enough for any reasonable person to hang their hat on. Why oh why are so many Giants fans so worried? You'd think most of us would approach each off-season with a blank slate if not outright positivity... sarcasm...

He doesn't criticize the players the organization doesn't allow him to criticize. His criticism is generic. He used to target individuals and didn't hold back. The change in his approach is obvious to anyone who has listened to him. He's even talked about it.

Banks will only criticize players the front office is okay with criticizing. Let's hear him criticize Evan Neal and JMS since he's so down on the OL.

Quote from: TDToomer on February 05, 2024, 10:16:18 AMWell if you mean his defense of Thibs I support what he has done. Someone had to stand up to the jerks at WFAN.

He has said on the radio that he avoids criticizing players.