Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: madbadger on October 05, 2023, 07:43:00 PMYes. I'd even throw in our 3rd round pick to make it happen. I'd use the cap space to fix the line and use our first round pick in Jones replacements.

Ah kind of like the Brock Osweiler trade.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 05, 2023, 07:49:35 PMI would, yes. After more than four years of watching him, I am just not of the view that he's ever going to be a top flight starter in this league. I think he's capable of being a better player than what we have seen for most of this season, but I don't view him as a top 8-10 QB. I am very much of the view that if you don't have a top 8-10 QB, you need to keep looking for one, and you should not pay a non top 10 QB big time money.

With that said, as you and others have suggested, I think it's unrealistic to think anyone is going to take him off our hands under the current terms. I think the Giants are more likely going to have to eat this $47mm hit next year. The rest of the league just doesn't value him the way the Giants have, and we are now holding the bag.

I think they'd wait until after next season and use him as the backup going into next season so when they do cut him post June 1st we are on better footing unless someone comes and gets him.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 05, 2023, 08:31:03 PMI think they'd wait until after next season and use him as the backup going into next season so when they do cut him post June 1st we are on better footing unless someone comes and gets him.

Yup. I think this is the base case as well if they decide to go in a new direction at the position after this season. I'm not sure if Jones would be the backup on day one, but clearly that's not an important detail right now as this is still hypothetical.

Most of the sacks were on Jones. He can't make any reads right now. He often is scrambling before there is pressure, creating pressure where there is none. This team has a QB problem. That must be fixed before anything else can truly be fixed long term. They should do whatever it takes to trade up in next year's draft to take an elite QB talent. The time for excuses is over.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 02, 2023, 11:21:06 PMEleven sacks. Wrap your head around that. He's not the worst problem.

That said, this season isn't going to bode well for Daboll, Schoen and Jones. If they have a top five pick, as it looks now, they draft a QB.

Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on October 05, 2023, 09:40:31 PMMost of the sacks were on Jones. He can't make any reads right now. He often is scrambling before there is pressure, creating pressure where there is none. This team has a QB problem. That must be fixed before anything else can truly be fixed long term. They should do whatever it takes to trade up in next year's draft to take an elite QB talent. The time for excuses is over.

In the meantime, when Thomas, JMS, Bellinger and Saquon get back on the field and Jones isn't pressured under the worst line in the league, he will perform better.

I commented on Jones flaws of being rattled under pressure and in high stakes situations four years ago and said he would never take this team to a SB win. He lacks the short memory that Eli had from one play to the next. Eli demonstrated it during the playoff game against the Niners in 2012. Jones would have caved that game.

I think Daboll and Schoen believed if they could put a good team around him, Jones' confidence would rise and he would become their Franchise QB. They just weren't sure if it so they built a contract with an escape.

Unfortunately, this isn't something that can be coached out of a player. Just like some people can't handle public speaking well or life and death situations.

Even when those guys come back the book is out on Jones until he starts taking shots downfield and breaks the habit of always looking to his check downs and underneath routes.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 05, 2023, 08:29:14 PMAh kind of like the Brock Osweiler trade.

Interesting idea but I just don't see it happening.

I think this should be noted as well when it comes to our offense including QBs and OL.

Our RBs this year have 60 carries for 190 yards. As you can see there are a lot more problems this year than just the QB. Whats teh common them for a poor passing game and a poor running game?

A very poor OL.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 09:30:49 AMI think this should be noted as well when it comes to our offense including QBs and OL.

Our RBs this year have 60 carries for 190 yards. As you can see there are a lot more problems this year than just the QB. Whats teh common them for a poor passing game and a poor running game?

A very poor OL.

Nobody is saying the OLine isn't a problem. Nobody is saying that it's even remotely good.

People are merely pointing out that Jones isn't even playing average.

It's been pointed out, with video evidence, that Jones was responsible for a number of sacks on Monday night. In fact, according to Dan O the oline was responsible for 4, Campbell 1 and the rest were on Jones.

The Giants, and Jones, have played well for 2 quarters this season. Two.

If people don't think Jones is a massive part of this collective failure (not withstanding his salary taking money away replenishing at other positions), I don't know what to say.

All summer long we had cartwheels on this board about "locking up our Franchise QB". Sadly, for all of us, the shine has really come off that and it's clear Jones cannot play with what's provided to him. The Giants obviously thought the same, hence the painful but palatable exit at the end of next season. So they also thought that they had not locked up their franchise QB.

But make no mistake, I doubt anyone on this board is happy with how this has played out but that doesn't stop it being the reality that we face right now.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 09:30:49 AMI think this should be noted as well when it comes to our offense including QBs and OL.

Our RBs this year have 60 carries for 190 yards. As you can see there are a lot more problems this year than just the QB. Whats teh common them for a poor passing game and a poor running game?

A very poor OL.

Yeah, it has already been established many of those sacks were Jones' fault, Barkley is hurt, and Breida is average at best. Brightwell is useless and Gray hasn't gotten a chance yet

Not sure what the point is you're trying to make, seems like excuses are being made here since no one claims the OL is good, no one claims that Jones is the only problem. He is the most expensive one, and due to his position the biggest one

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on October 06, 2023, 09:43:44 AMNobody is saying the OLine isn't a problem. Nobody is saying that it's even remotely good.

People are merely pointing out that Jones isn't even playing average.

It's been pointed out, with video evidence, that Jones was responsible for a number of sacks on Monday night. In fact, according to Dan O the oline was responsible for 4, Campbell 1 and the rest were on Jones.

The Giants, and Jones, have played well for 2 quarters this season. Two.

If people don't think Jones is a massive part of this collective failure (not withstanding his salary taking money away replenishing at other positions), I don't know what to say.

All summer long we had cartwheels on this board about "locking up our Franchise QB". Sadly, for all of us, the shine has really come off that and it's clear Jones cannot play with what's provided to him. The Giants obviously thought the same, hence the painful but palatable exit at the end of next season. So they also thought that they had not locked up their franchise QB.

But make no mistake, I doubt anyone on this board is happy with how this has played out but that doesn't stop it being the reality that we face right now.

I'm not happy with how things have gone.  I was hoping that at the very least Jones could give them decent enough play while Schoen continued to build out the foundation of the franchise the next season or two.  Instead his play has regressed and there are big question markets about the foundation of the franchise.  There are 13 more games to turn things around but right now it's not looking good.

QBs arent robots. Some of those sacks I disagree with. Not recognizing a blitz, not throwing a ball away losing a yard - sure, you can definitely pinpoint that on Jones.

Jones is in a no win situation with a lot of people and "experts". If he gets rid of the ball quickly, he isnt taking chances down field and not going through his reads. If he holds onto the ball, and then gets sacked - he gets blame for holding onto the ball and not making quicker decisions.

This is what I know for sure. If he is getting sacked 6+ times a games (it may have been more last week) in 2 seconds or under. I am not blaming the QB. If an edge or DE hits our QB unblocked - thats not on the QB.

What I find amusing from these "experts" is they fail how many sacks Jones got out of from poor blocking a sif it doesnt matter. I bet he avoided another 6-10 more Seattle where some other QBs would have been sack. But do they give him credit for that? Nah...

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 09:57:24 AMQBs arent robots. Some of those sacks I disagree with. Not recognizing a blitz, not throwing a ball away losing a yard - sure, you can definitely pinpoint that on Jones.

Jones is in a no win situation with a lot of people and "experts". If he gets rid of the ball quickly, he isnt taking chances down field and not going through his reads. If he holds onto the ball, and then gets sacked - he gets blame for holding onto the ball and not making quicker decisions.

This is what I know for sure. If he is getting sacked 6+ times a games (it may have been more last week) in 2 seconds or under. I am not blaming the QB. If an edge or DE hits our QB unblocked - thats not on the QB.

What I find amusing from these "experts" is they fail how many sacks Jones got out of from poor blocking a sif it doesnt matter. I bet he avoided another 6-10 more Seattle where some other QBs would have been sack. But do they give him credit for that? Nah...

If there is a completely unaccounted for blitzer/DE it's almost always the QBs fault. Most starting QBs in the NFL are capable of either shifting the blocking to the overload side, or be aware that there is an unblocked man and adjust his decision making on that play accordingly.  If you see Jones dropping back to pass completely unaware of an untouched blitzer...that's his fault.  If the blitzers are all accounted for but Evan Neal completely whiffs on his block as he is want to do...that's on the OL.

Quote from: JT39 on October 06, 2023, 09:57:24 AMQBs arent robots. Some of those sacks I disagree with. Not recognizing a blitz, not throwing a ball away losing a yard - sure, you can definitely pinpoint that on Jones.

Jones is in a no win situation with a lot of people and "experts". If he gets rid of the ball quickly, he isnt taking chances down field and not going through his reads. If he holds onto the ball, and then gets sacked - he gets blame for holding onto the ball and not making quicker decisions.

This is what I know for sure. If he is getting sacked 6+ times a games (it may have been more last week) in 2 seconds or under. I am not blaming the QB. If an edge or DE hits our QB unblocked - thats not on the QB.

What I find amusing from these "experts" is they fail how many sacks Jones got out of from poor blocking a sif it doesnt matter. I bet he avoided another 6-10 more Seattle where some other QBs would have been sack. But do they give him credit for that? Nah...

If you're a franchise QB in season 5 who was just handed a large contract extension the expectations are going to be higher than they are for a rookie or second year QB still learning how to play the position at this level.  Fair or unfair Jones being in his fifth year with his contract means his play is going to get criticized more just as it is for any player in his position who has the professional career he's had to this point.

As far as getting rid of the ball quickly meaning that he can't go downfield I point to this play a few years ago that was getting rid of the ball quickly and anticipating the play while going deep all at the same time.  Something most elite veteran QB's do on a regular basis.  https://twitter.com/bobbyskinner_/status/1204229461312516096?s=61

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 06, 2023, 10:08:33 AMIf you're a franchise QB in season 5 who was just handed a large contract extension the expectations are going to be higher than they are for a rookie or second year QB still learning how to play the position at this level.  Fair or unfair Jones being in his fifth year with his contract means his play is going to get criticized more just as it is for any player in his position who has the professional career he's had to this point.

As far as getting rid of the ball quickly meaning that he can't go downfield I point to this play a few years ago that was getting rid of the ball quickly and anticipating the play while going deep all at the same time.  Something most elite veteran QB's do on a regular basis.  https://twitter.com/bobbyskinner_/status/1204229461312516096?s=61

Pretty interesting thatSlayton had one of his very best games Eli, if this is the game I think it is.

This the one he had 150yds right?