Jim Nagy
@JimNagy_SB
NFL scouts on ground at
@UW_Football
reporting to us that QB Michael Penix ran 4.52-4.57 range on multiple ⏱️. He also posted 36.5 VJ and 10-6 BJ.
All three numbers are better than any QB that tested at Combine.
@themikepenix
is only QB of "Big Six" potential first-rounders in 2024 class to run 40-yard dash. 🫡
#TheDraftStartsInMOBILE™️
As I say in the Giants scouting QBs hard, there is a large Giants contingent there to see Penix put up these impressive numbers.
https://x.com/JimNagy_SB/status/1773417087240745133?s=20
FWIW, those numbers are also better than Daniel Jones 4.81/33.5/10.0 at HIS combine.
If we draft Penix, Schoen and Daboll need to retract the Tough/Smart/Dependable mantra. I'm not saying we shouldn't draft him, as I know he has some talent, but you can't walk around preaching "dependable" if your first or second pick in the draft is a guy who has had two ACLs before age 23. I'm sorry but that would be absurd. That tagline's credibility is already on very shaky ground after giving Jones a big contract with his injury history, even prior to 2023.
Not a fan of those injuries. But I think he has been healthy for 2 years straight.
Those #s say he has lost too much
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 03:27:47 PMIf we draft Penix, Schoen and Daboll need to retract the Tough/Smart/Dependable mantra. I'm not saying we shouldn't draft him, as I know he has some talent, but you can't walk around preaching "dependable" if your first or second pick in the draft is a guy who has had two ACLs before age 23. I'm sorry but that would be absurd. That tagline's credibility is already on very shaky ground after giving Jones a big contract with his injury history, even prior to 2023.
Do you think that Darren Waller fits the "smart/tough/dependable category?
From what I have witnessed from Schoen so far, that slogan seems more like an ideal than a hard and fast rule.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 28, 2024, 03:32:48 PMNot a fan of those injuries. But I think he has been healthy for 2 years straight.
Those #s say he has lost too much
Yes. 100% about the injury concern.
Also in football it's not like you saw him run effectively so that speed matters little.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 28, 2024, 03:48:34 PMYes. 100% about the injury concern.
Also in football it's not like you saw him run effectively so that speed matters little.
He doesn't take off down field much. But he does use his legs effectively in the pocket to go with a quick release. I think he was sacked 34 times in like 1700 pass attempts.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 03:35:43 PMDo you think that Darren Waller fits the "smart/tough/dependable category?
From what I have witnessed from Schoen so far, that slogan seems more like an ideal than a hard and fast rule.
Clearly not. I have been calling the meaningfulness of this mantra into question for some time now.
"Impressive athletic numbers" don't count for much. Ask (for example) Johnny Unitas.
NFL QB is about smarts, poise, class and leadership.
Maybe he should try out for the Olympics instead. /sarcasm/
Bob
https://x.com/albertbreer/status/1773444078786490525?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
I do like his accuracy. Dont like his throwing style but given his good accuracy, I would not mess with it.
I remember several drafts where there were 4+ QB prospects that all had the look and potential to be be a Franchise QB, but I don't remember agreeing with almost the entire class. This class has at least six QBs and possibly seven who could emerge as outstanding QBs. Of course history shows that's very unlikely. I do believe the destination is one of the determining factors.
There will likely be six QBs taken in the first round and it sounds unprecedented. Penix is going to be one of them. Just where, remains to be seen.
With QBs what's the minimum hand size teams usually use as a line?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 29, 2024, 12:22:08 PMWith QBs what's the minimum hand size teams usually use as a line?
I think they prefer ten but nine is acceptable.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 29, 2024, 12:15:14 PMI remember several drafts where there were 4+ QB prospects that all had the look and potential to be be a Franchise QB, but I don't remember agreeing with almost the entire class. This class has at least six QBs and possibly seven who could emerge as outstanding QBs. Of course history shows that's very unlikely. I do believe the destination is one of the determining factors.
There will likely be six QBs taken in the first round and it sounds unprecedented. Penix is going to be one of them. Just where, remains to be seen.
History suggests that even if 6 are taken, it's likely only 2 or 3 will be considered successful.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 29, 2024, 12:25:16 PMI think they prefer ten but nine is acceptable.
Really? I thought Nicks was an outlier as he had I think 10 inch hands. Do QBs actually have hands that big?
I think JJ's hands were the smallest of the 6 QBs.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 29, 2024, 01:57:58 PMReally? I thought Nicks was an outlier as he had I think 10 inch hands. Do QBs actually have hands that big?
I think JJ's hands were the smallest of the 6 QBs.
We don't know Daniels' hand size
Here are the NFL hand sizes
Taysom Hill, New Orleans Saints: 8¾ inches
Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals: 9
Ryan Tannehill, Tennessee Titans: 9
Jared Goff, Detroit Lions: 9
Derek Carr, Las Vegas Raiders: 9⅛
Justin Fields, Chicago Bears: 9⅛
Baker Mayfield, Cleveland Browns: 9¼
Teddy Bridgewater, Denver Broncos: 9¼
Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City Chiefs: 9¼
Jimmy Garoppolo, San Francisco 49ers: 9¼
Taylor Heinicke, Washington Commanders: 9¼
Sam Darnold, Carolina Panthers: 9⅜
Tom Brady, Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9⅜
Zach Wilson, New York Jets: 9½
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens: 9½
Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons: 9½
Kyler Murray, Arizona Cardinals: 9½
Davis Mills, Houston Texans: 9½
Mac Jones, New England Patriots: 9¾
Daniel Jones, New York Giants: 9¾
Jalen Hurts, Philadelphia Eagles: 9¾
Kirk Cousins, Minnesota Vikings: 9⅞
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers: 9⅞
Tua Tagovailoa, Miami Dolphins: 10
Carson Wentz, Indianapolis Colts: 10
Trevor Lawrence, Jacksonville Jaguars: 10
Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers: 10
Dak Prescott, Dallas Cowboys: 10
Matthew Stafford, Los Angeles Rams: 10
Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills: 10⅛
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers: 10⅛
Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks: 10¼
Notable backups
Drew Lock, Denver Broncos: 9 inches
Trey Lance, San Francisco 49ers: 9⅛
Mason Rudolph, Pittsburgh Steelers: 9⅛
Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers: 10
Tyrod Taylor, Houston Texans: 10
Gardner Minshew, Philadelphia Eagles: 10⅛
Jordan Love, Green Bay Packers: 10½
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33108568/nfl-quarterback-hand-size-measurements-smallest-biggest-all-32-teams-taysom-hill-russell-wilson
https://x.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1773530423055765590?s=20
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 29, 2024, 02:54:09 PMhttps://x.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1773530423055765590?s=20
His performance alleviates any concern over this two ACLs.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 29, 2024, 01:57:58 PMReally? I thought Nicks was an outlier as he had I think 10 inch hands. Do QBs actually have hands that big?
I think JJ's hands were the smallest of the 6 QBs.
Nicks was measured at 10.5 and some touted at 11. Soft hands too. Poof!
If he didnt have those injuries, where would people have him rated?
He does have a lot of positives:
Arm strength
Accuracy
Pocket presence
Experience
Doesn't take sacks often
Quick release
Size
Hand size
To name a few.
His 40 time is pretty irrelevant since he doesn't run. And he doesn't throw the ball to well on the run either.
Michael Penix Jr. 2024 NFL Draft: Combine Results, Scouting Report For Washington QB
By Greg Cosell
NFL Analyst
https://www.the33rdteam.com/michael-penix-jr-2024-nfl-draft-combine-results-scouting-report-for-washington-qb/
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 30, 2024, 04:51:20 PMMichael Penix Jr. 2024 NFL Draft: Combine Results, Scouting Report For Washington QB
By Greg Cosell
NFL Analyst
https://www.the33rdteam.com/michael-penix-jr-2024-nfl-draft-combine-results-scouting-report-for-washington-qb/
"My sense is Penix will need a strong pass-protecting offensive line . . ."
Doesn't sound like a great fit for the Giants.
https://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1774883288319996020?s=20
"Just be better at RT."
Easier said than done. As we've seen.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 01, 2024, 03:43:15 PM"Just be better at RT."
Easier said than done. As we've seen.
Oh I dunno, it's actually easy to do. Just play Eluemunor there instead of Neal ;)
https://x.com/giantinsider/status/1775266032825114898?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Most fans remember the last game and that's about all.
Did any of the other QBs have as big an impact on a program that Penix did at Indiana?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 02, 2024, 05:50:30 PMMost fans remember the last game and that's about all.
Did any of the other QBs have as big an impact on a program that Penix did at Indiana?
I remember C.J Stroud struggling against Michigan a year ago. Well?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 29, 2024, 12:22:08 PMWith QBs what's the minimum hand size teams usually use as a line?
Interesting you should ask that question. Doesn't Penix have the largest hands of the top prospects? If memory serves, Dante Culpepper has smaller hands which was frequently mentioned when his propensity for fumbling was discussed. It became a cautionary point for future drafts.
Quote from: TONKA56 on April 03, 2024, 09:57:53 AMInteresting you should ask that question. Doesn't Penix have the largest hands of the top prospects? If memory serves, Dante Culpepper has smaller hands which was frequently mentioned when his propensity for fumbling was discussed. It became a cautionary point for future drafts.
There has been a few QBs with the small hands issue. Byron Leftwich is one of the ones I remember.
Yes Penix has huge hands, and it supposedly good for a few things:
-Pump fakes
-Not fumbling
-Being able to drive the ball downfield in adverse weather conditions.
Penix clicks a lot of boxes. I really wonder where people would rank him if not for the injuries.
Maybe it's from playing Wordle every day and using X as a filler letter, but every time I glance at the thread title, Penix isn't the first read.
Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals: 9
Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City Chiefs: 9¼
Tom Brady, Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9⅜
Tells me all I need to know about the importance of hand size.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 03, 2024, 01:32:33 PMJoe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals: 9
Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City Chiefs: 9¼
Tom Brady, Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 9⅜
Tells me all I need to know about the importance of hand size.
Large hands are an advantage. Is it the the be-all-end-all? Of course not. Can small hands be compensated for? Sure. But it's still better to have larger hands in sports.
9 inches is the threshold that is generally used. Guys with hands smaller than that would be the ones scouts and FO types would give a deeper look.
Having hands on the bigger side is definitely an advantage in some ways.
https://x.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1775864579760767094?s=20
https://x.com/albertbreer/status/1776689796569575901?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 06, 2024, 03:22:07 PMhttps://x.com/albertbreer/status/1776689796569575901?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
It's starting to appear as if Penix might not be available if the Giants somehow move down from #6. Crazy.
Quote from: AYM on April 06, 2024, 04:03:15 PMIt's starting to appear as if Penix might not be available if the Giants somehow move down from #6. Crazy.
I think if they move down no lower than 15, they can get him. He will be drafted before #20.
Quote from: AYM on April 06, 2024, 04:03:15 PMIt's starting to appear as if Penix might not be available if the Giants somehow move down from #6. Crazy.
I wonder if coaches and scouts evaluate injury history differently.
Penix is interesting in a lot of positive ways, but I am having a hard time looking the other way on the fact that he was nothing short of shockingly terrible in by far the biggest game of his life. And let's be very clear- it wasn't just an off day. He was truly horrid in that game. And that was the only legitimately strong D he faced this year. That was much more representative of the challenges he'll face from opponents in the NFL. Pac 12 defenses are not.
If "great players make great plays in huge games", he not only didn't tick that box this past year, but he failed miserably at it. He also turns 24 in a few weeks.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 07, 2024, 06:32:32 AMPenix is interesting in a lot of positive ways, but I am having a hard time looking the other way on the fact that he was nothing short of shockingly terrible in by far the biggest game of his life. And let's be very clear- it wasn't just an off day. He was truly horrid in that game. And that was the only legitimately strong D he faced this year. That was much more representative of the challenges he'll face from opponents in the NFL. Pac 12 defenses are not.
If "great players make great plays in huge games", he not only didn't tick that box this past year, but he failed miserably at it. He also turns 24 in a few weeks.
Which of the QB prospects didn't look awful against a great team this past year?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 07, 2024, 09:43:41 AMWhich of the QB prospects didn't look awful against a great team this past year?
And not necessarily a great team either.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 07, 2024, 09:43:41 AMWhich of the QB prospects didn't look awful against a great team this past year?
Jayden Daniels. Check out his game against Bama. He was not just good but elite in that game. That was in Tuscaloosa too.
I prefer not to over emphasize any one game for good or bad performance. Totality and traits.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 07, 2024, 06:32:32 AMPenix is interesting in a lot of positive ways, but I am having a hard time looking the other way on the fact that he was nothing short of shockingly terrible in by far the biggest game of his life. And let's be very clear- it wasn't just an off day. He was truly horrid in that game. And that was the only legitimately strong D he faced this year. That was much more representative of the challenges he'll face from opponents in the NFL. Pac 12 defenses are not.
If "great players make great plays in huge games", he not only didn't tick that box this past year, but he failed miserably at it. He also turns 24 in a few weeks.
This is an example of production scouting. The reason coaches are high on him is they see Penix has a lot of NLF traits that project well to the next level.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 07, 2024, 11:00:36 AMThis is an example of production scouting. The reason coaches are high on him is they see Penix has a lot of NLF traits that project well to the next level.
And I'm not denying that he has those traits. I have already acknowledged that he has arm talent and athletic ability, and that he's an interesting prospect. I think how these players play against strong competition in big games is relevant though. Imagine the difference in the narrative if he had been amazing in that game.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 07, 2024, 11:05:28 AMAnd I'm not denying that he has those traits. I have already acknowledged that he has arm talent and athletic ability, and that he's an interesting prospect. I think how these players play against strong competition in big games is relevant though. Imagine the difference in the narrative if he had been amazing in that game.
Jeff, I think it's the magnitude of the game that's the main focus here. All good QB's have bad games and this draft class had their share of them. It has more to do with how they performed and not the stats. That game you referenced was for the College Championship. I look back at how Trevor Lawrence was putting up incredible numbers against suboptimal teams and then when he didn't have as much support around him he came up short in big games. I completely changed my opinion of him as an elite QB. It reminds me of Jones win against a poor Minnesota team in the playoffs and then facing a good team he folds against the Eagles. It was the playoffs. Big games.
I think Lawrence is a good QB but it remains to be seen if he will ever be a difference maker in a huge game. I don't believe Jones ever will. McCarthy on the other hand won all his big games. Penix and Nix both lost big games. Will it mean anything in the big picture? Who really knows, but for sure they are not elite material until they show more. Neither are worthy of the six pick. We have seen their ceiling.
Don't forget, Penix had the game of his career,in the semis, to get his team to the finals.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 07, 2024, 06:32:32 AMPenix is interesting in a lot of positive ways, but I am having a hard time looking the other way on the fact that he was nothing short of shockingly terrible in by far the biggest game of his life. And let's be very clear- it wasn't just an off day. He was truly horrid in that game. And that was the only legitimately strong D he faced this year. That was much more representative of the challenges he'll face from opponents in the NFL. Pac 12 defenses are not.
If "great players make great plays in huge games", he not only didn't tick that box this past year, but he failed miserably at it. He also turns 24 in a few weeks.
So how would you react if the Giants believe his body of work trumps this game, his medicals check out and they take him at 6?
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on April 07, 2024, 02:11:35 PMSo how would you react if the Giants believe his body of work trumps this game, his medicals check out and they take him at 6?
I would trust that they have done their due diligence and I'd be excited that we now have a new and intriguing option at QB and can finally move on from the incumbent one. I wouldn't view him as a lock to be good, but I wouldn't view any pick that way.
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on April 07, 2024, 02:11:35 PMSo how would you react if the Giants believe his body of work trumps this game, his medicals check out and they take him at 6?
Not sure I trust the Giants when it comes to medicals checking out.