Big Blue Huddle

If McCarthy is moving up as it appears, he would be a good pick for the Giants at six because he will sit up to a year since DJ will play in 2024. If they feel he will be there after ten they could trade back but since there are so many teams needing a QB, that's not likely. If Daniels is there at six, they have to take him. If Maye is there at six, they have to take him. I don't think they will.

If you subscribe to the Athletic, there is an article about him.  It's too long (and you will miss the video clips) for me to copy and paste


https://theathletic.com/5288615/2024/02/23/jj-mccarthy-nfl-draft-quarterback/

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 23, 2024, 09:11:47 AMIf McCarthy is moving up as it appears, he would be a good pick for the Giants at six because he will sit up to a year since DJ will play in 2024. If they feel he will be there after ten they could trade back but since there are so many teams needing a QB, that's not likely. If Daniels is there at six, they have to take him. If Maye is there at six, they have to take him. I don't think they will.

Hypothetical, You can get your choice of Odunze or Nabers and then trade our 2025 1st and our 2nd, 2nd rd pick plus maybe some conditionsls to move back into the top 10 to grab Mccarthy would you be on board with something like that? I think schoen and Daboll have to make a splash and I think that would be my ideal splash

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 23, 2024, 10:31:31 AMHypothetical, You can get your choice of Odunze or Nabers and then trade our 2025 1st and our 2nd, 2nd rd pick plus maybe some conditionsls to move back into the top 10 to grab Mccarthy would you be on board with something like that? I think schoen and Daboll have to make a splash and I think that would be my ideal splash

No, too much sacrifice to nab a top Receiver when the position is deep. I wouldn't take a chance on a QB. They can't carry Jones another year. With that Oline, I wouldn't be surprised if the wait and pick Bo Nix. Let's see what the Combine looks like. 

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 23, 2024, 11:12:50 AMNo, too much sacrifice to nab a top Receiver when the position is deep. I wouldn't take a chance on a QB. They can't carry Jones another year. With that Oline, I wouldn't be surprised if the wait and pick Bo Nix. Let's see what the Combine looks like. 

Yeah after his senior bowl outing though he may be at a new low.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 23, 2024, 01:04:08 PMYeah after his senior bowl outing though he may be at a new low.

He got better as the week progressed though and played a good series.

Zierlein on McCarthy:

Overview

Enigmatic quarterback lacking the measurables and splash throws associated with early round quarterbacks but possessing elements that require more study and consideration. McCarthy lacks frame thickness and a plus arm. He's fairly poised in the pocket but is average as a pocket passer. His ball placement and timing need to improve to help mitigate an average operation time due to a windup release. McCarthy doesn't seek to play out of structure but is fairly consistent at making positive plays when it happens and ramps up his focus late in games and on third downs. He is confident and seems to have the ability to take slights and digest it as competitive fuel. McCarthy should continue to improve as a passer, but he fails to stand out in many of the areas that tend to be predictive of top-level success in the NFL.


Here is the full write-up:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/j.j.-mccarthy/32004d43-4318-9531-b3f5-120a14383239


I'll leave it up to everyone here to decide if this sounds like a player you'd take with the 6th pick in the draft.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 23, 2024, 07:07:46 PMZierlein on McCarthy:

Overview

Enigmatic quarterback lacking the measurables and splash throws associated with early round quarterbacks but possessing elements that require more study and consideration. McCarthy lacks frame thickness and a plus arm. He's fairly poised in the pocket but is average as a pocket passer. His ball placement and timing need to improve to help mitigate an average operation time due to a windup release. McCarthy doesn't seek to play out of structure but is fairly consistent at making positive plays when it happens and ramps up his focus late in games and on third downs. He is confident and seems to have the ability to take slights and digest it as competitive fuel. McCarthy should continue to improve as a passer, but he fails to stand out in many of the areas that tend to be predictive of top-level success in the NFL.


Here is the full write-up:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/j.j.-mccarthy/32004d43-4318-9531-b3f5-120a14383239


I'll leave it up to everyone here to decide if this sounds like a player you'd take with the 6th pick in the draft.

Not these guys don't put the work in but I take everything they say with a grain of salt. Last year he had Will Levis as the fourth pick ahead of stroud.

They're most guessing.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 23, 2024, 07:07:46 PMZierlein on McCarthy:

Overview

Enigmatic quarterback lacking the measurables and splash throws associated with early round quarterbacks but possessing elements that require more study and consideration.

I will start off that I share Jeff's take on Lance Zerliene.  I consider him a safe basic scout that gives pretty good, but nothing exciting reports.

That said, if I were a GM and this was the scouting report Lance handed me, he would get it returned to him to do another one and, this time, do it right (or find another line of work).

"Enigmatic"?  That has no place in a proper scouting report.  It's your F***ing job to solve those puzzles

"lacking the measurables."  We haven't even had the measurables from the Combine, so what the hell is he even talking about?

"splash throws"  One is looking for traits that translate well to the NFL, "slash throws" is not a trait.

"require more study and consideration"  Are you seriously handing your your scouting report with the clear statement that you didn't put in the work needed to properly assess the prospect? SERIOUSLY?

And for those who say Michigans run game was dominant?

Blake Corum went from 6 YPC in 2022 to 4.8 in 2023.

Donovan Edwards went from 7.1 YPC to 4.2 from 2022 to 2023.

Their run game was far from what it was in 2022.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2024, 08:40:27 AMI will start off that I share Jeff's take on Lance Zerliene.  I consider him a safe basic scout that gives pretty good, but nothing exciting reports.

That said, if I were a GM and this was the scouting report Lance handed me, he would get it returned to him to do another one and, this time, do it right (or find another line of work).

"Enigmatic"?  That has no place in a proper scouting report.  It's your F***ing job to solve those puzzles

"lacking the measurables."  We haven't even had the measurables from the Combine, so what the hell is he even talking about?

"splash throws"  One is looking for traits that translate well to the NFL, "slash throws" is not a trait.

"require more study and consideration"  Are you seriously handing your your scouting report with the clear statement that you didn't put in the work needed to properly assess the prospect? SERIOUSLY?

Good points.

My biggest concern with McCarthy is that, in the biggest games against the toughest opponents, Jim Harbaugh, who understands the QB position as well as anyone, chose to gameplan around him rather than making him the linchpin of the offense. He did not do that with Andrew Luck in Stanford, and I don't think you'll see him do it with Justin Herbert in LA.

That doesn't mean McCarthy definitely won't be good. But it makes me very leery about taking someone with that fact pattern 6th overall.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 24, 2024, 08:51:54 AMGood points.

My biggest concern with McCarthy is that, in the biggest games against the toughest opponents, Jim Harbaugh, who understands the QB position as well as anyone, chose to gameplan around him rather than making him the linchpin of the offense. He did not do that with Andrew Luck in Stanford, and I don't think you'll see him do it with Justin Herbert in LA.

That doesn't mean McCarthy definitely won't be good. But it makes me very leery about taking someone with that fact pattern 6th overall.

Their game plan was the same all year. Control the ball, dominate with defense, and let JJ make plays when needed. Game plan seemed pretty successful to me.

When Corum got hurt last year - McCarthy carried them against Ohio State. He had 8 TDs against Ohio State and TCU. Even with a couple mistakes littered in - there were times when he needed McCarthy to carry the. - and for the most part - he did.

This notion that Harbaugh took the ball out of his hands and didn't trust him is pure lunacy.

And remember against PSU and Maryland - he was playing with a severe high ankle sprain. To the point where he wasn't suppose to play.

Quote from: JT39 on February 24, 2024, 08:56:11 AMTheir game plan was the same all year. Control the ball, dominate with defense, and let JJ make plays when needed. Game plan seemed pretty successful to me.

When Corum got hurt last year - McCarthy carried them against Ohio State. He had 8 TDs against Ohio State and TCU. Even with a couple mistakes littered in - there were times when he needed McCarthy to carry the. - and for the most part - he did.

This notion that Harbaugh took the ball out of his hands and didn't trust him is pure lunacy.

And remember against PSU and Maryland - he was playing with a severe high ankle sprain. To the point where he wasn't suppose to play.

I think he might end up being good. I really don't know for sure, and nobody else here does either. All I am saying is I think it's a valid concern to note that in three of their four biggest games this year, including the national championship game, he was game-planned around more than featured. That bothers me a little if we're talking about a top 10 pick.

The fact that that strategy worked for Michigan and they were the best team in college football is great for them and a credit to their coach, but that doesn't mean McCarthy is some great, obvious pick at 6th overall.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 24, 2024, 08:51:54 AMGood points.

My biggest concern with McCarthy is that, in the biggest games against the toughest opponents, Jim Harbaugh, who understands the QB position as well as anyone, chose to gameplan around him rather than making him the linchpin of the offense. He did not do that with Andrew Luck in Stanford, and I don't think you'll see him do it with Justin Herbert in LA.

That doesn't mean McCarthy definitely won't be good. But it makes me very leery about taking someone with that fact pattern 6th overall.

I am curious why we would go back to 2010 and Andrew Luck rather than look at the nature of the Michigan offense prior to JJ becoming the starter, especially as the Pac-10 had notoriously poor defenses compared to the Big-10.

Still,  since the point was raised.

Andrew Luck (two seasons under Harbaugh)

288 attempts and 372 attempts

JJ McCarthy (two seasons as a starter under Harbaugh)

332 attempts and 322 attempts

I do not see a glaring difference.

I see issues with McCarthy (as I do all prospects).  That said, some issues I find have questionable value, including the idea that Harbaugh had to scheme around JJ McCarthy.  First off, Harbaugh has made it pretty clear in his statements that he did not scheme around his 5-star QB recruit.  Second, Michigan was a very talented team, especially in terms of being able to run the ball (and run block), and had a great defense.  Most coaches, if given their choice, would prefer to run the ball on offense.  It's safer, it wears down opposing defenses, and it wins the critical time of possession (which helps your defense).  Considering that the team was undefeated and the national championship, I find it hard to believe claims that Harbaugh had no choice "but to scheme around his weak QB" rather than running the ball successfully and using his skilled QB to keep drives going and score when they needed it.'

Oh, and as I suggested (I had already done this).  Michigan didn't suddenly become a run heavy team when McCarthy took over, that was their characteristic well before McCarthy became the starter.