Why Has OL Coach Not Been Fired Yet?

[Philosophers]

All I hear are excuses.  They were not ready by the end of preseason camp as well.

Eli would get sacked in e and this board would erupt.  We got sacked over 80 times.  That is close if not a league record.

It starts with this man.

[andrew_nyGiants]

As far as inside info on a potential Daboll departure, unless the Chargers have been up to some serious tampering, I don't see a 2nd yr HC who has never been an NFL HC prior to this opportunity, simply walking away.


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[MightyGiants]

All I hear are excuses. 

We had a thread last month about nuance and looking deeper into issues.  Comments like this suggest we should do the opposite, that we should view issues on the most superficial of levels.

Factors that impact performance matter.  They should not be dismissed out of hand by calling them "excuses."

The funny thing is, it's not like we see things all that differently.  It's only a matter of degree; you wanted BJ to be a mid-season firing.  I want him fired at the end of the season.   The difference is I appreciate the injury issue (I didn't even mention the sacks that Cutlets created on his own). 

In the end, it was a combination of poor coaching, talent, and injuries (along with a rookie QB who held on to the ball too long).   Hopefully the Giants will address all three issues in the offseason.

[babywhales]

Chris,

Where did you hear this?  I listen to Banks' podcast I had not heard this and an extensive internet search couldn't confirm it.

I heard it the morning of Wed, Dec 20 as people were referencing Banks comment, stated as I wrote it .

Later that am I wrote a variety of East coast giants fans and asked if they had heard it,?

They had not

I only knew the date as it was in my text thread from looking into it

[AZGiantFan]

All I hear are excuses.  They were not ready by the end of preseason camp as well.

Eli would get sacked in e and this board would erupt.  We got sacked over 80 times.  That is close if not a league record.

It starts with this man.

Frankly the whole pre-season was a cluster flop,and that was on Daboll.  And it left them totally unprepared to start the season, as evidenced by the sterling performance of the first game. 

But nowhere was it worse than on the O-line.  In a position group where the most important thing is unit cohesion and knowing the players around you (cf the 2008 O-line, where the whole far exceeded the sum of the parts) it seemed like every day it was a different combination.  And while that's on Johnson, Daboll let him do it.

[Philosophers]

We had a thread last month about nuance and looking deeper into issues.  Comments like this suggest we should do the opposite, that we should view issues on the most superficial of levels.

Factors that impact performance matter.  They should not be dismissed out of hand by calling them "excuses."

The funny thing is, it's not like we see things all that differently.  It's only a matter of degree; you wanted BJ to be a mid-season firing.  I want him fired at the end of the season.   The difference is I appreciate the injury issue (I didn't even mention the sacks that Cutlets created on his own). 

In the end, it was a combination of poor coaching, talent, and injuries (along with a rookie QB who held on to the ball too long).   Hopefully the Giants will address all three issues in the offseason.

Rich - do you remember the forst game of the season when Neal could not even get a hand on an edge before he sacked a QB?  It's up to the OL coach to not let that happen or say "Neal is not there yet and have somebody else prepared at least to do better than that meager effort.

What OL (ignore Thomas) actually improved from last year?  How did JMS do compared to Tyler Lindenbaum (previous year) or other rookie centers who started the past few seasons?  How did Johnson do teaching the OL players how to communicate pre-snap?  I saw 5 OL not operatibg as a unit.  Worst OL play of my life.

I cant believe the pass folks are giving here.

[babywhales]

All I hear are excuses.  They were not ready by the end of preseason camp as well.

Eli would get sacked in e and this board would erupt.  We got sacked over 80 times.  That is close if not a league record.

It starts with this man.

2023 Giants, 83 Sacks is the 2nd highest 16 game total in history of the NFL

[MightyGiants]

Rich - do you remember the forst game of the season when Neal could not even get a hand on an edge before he sacked a QB?  It's up to the OL coach to not let that happen or say "Neal is not there yet and have somebody else prepared at least to do better than that meager effort.

What OL (ignore Thomas) actually improved from last year?  How did JMS do compared to Tyler Lindenbaum (previous year) or other rookie centers who started the past few seasons?  How did Johnson do teaching the OL players how to communicate pre-snap?  I saw 5 OL not operatibg as a unit.  Worst OL play of my life.

I cant believe the pass folks are giving here.

I struggle to see how wanting the guy fired in a week constitutes "giving him a pass"

[4 Aces]

It's a good question.

Few things make me more uncomfortable than suggesting someone gets fired, and I also have a sinking feeling there are higher forces at play, but their needs to be accountability for such a horrendous outcome.

He's been given Evan Neal, Josh Ezeudu, JMS and Marcus McKethan and amazingly, they've all regressed as they've played more. Lemieux looked serviceable in Garrett's offense and was God Awful. Glowinski (a known commodity)'s  play apparently fell off a cliff to the point they have no interest using him, despite the high salary. Guys like Mayfield looked lost when called upon.

Andrew Thomas is the unicorn that has managed to excel despite the circumstances. Literally every other player they've brought in under Johnson has been a complete disaster, and has regressed the more they've played. And as a group, the communication and knowledge of assignments is obviously terrible. What can you say?

[Ed Vette]

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread. @MightyGiants Rich, can you look up the PFF grades Run and Pass Blocking of;

Hernandez
Zeitler
Remmers
Gates
Feliciano

[coggs]

They are over 80 sacks in a season which is highest in my lifetime.  Yes they had injuries but they have not looked good at all.

How has management not pressed Dabs to make a coaching change midseason?  Judge did it and as I recalled, it helped a lot.

Do they possibly think he is not the reason for the OL's poor play?

1) whatever Judge did, every other coach should do the opposite.  2) IIRC, Judge fired Colombo after Colombo threatened him, physically.

[MightyGiants]

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread. @MightyGiants Rich, can you look up the PFF grades Run and Pass Blocking of;

Hernandez
Zeitler
Remmers
Gates
Feliciano

........           overall      Pass    Run

Hernandez   67.4 - 69.5 - 62.6
Zeitler    69.3 - 82.5 - 59.7
Remmers  No 2023 Snaps
Gates  65.9 - 62.0 - 70.7
Feliciano 81.2 - 66.5 - 87.0

[Ed Vette]

........           overall      Pass    Run

Hernandez   67.4 - 69.5 - 62.6
Zeitler    69.3 - 82.5 - 59.7
Remmers  No 2023 Snaps
Gates  65.9 - 62.0 - 70.7
Feliciano 81.2 - 66.5 - 87.0

Better than our starting Guards and Center?

[MightyGiants]

Better than our starting Guards and Center?

Almost all of them have better run-blocking than pass-blocking grades

[BluesCruz]

If Daboll is truly headed for the parking lot, I would love to see Wink get his shot at HC for the Giants

His Defense is good and getting better.  Daboll/Kafka's Offense has been tough on the eyes.

Wink has more football knowledge than 80% of the HCs in the league
I trust he would devise a very good offense also

Parcells and Belicheck were former DCs, it all makes sense to me.