Heroes 75 and above
Goats below 55
OFFENSE
Heroes
NONE
Goats
Jalin Hyatt
Isaiah Hodgins
Daniel Bellinger
Evan Neal
John Michael Schmitz Jr.
Shane Lemieux
Marcus McKethan
Joshua Ezeudu
* Note- Jones just missed Goat with a 55.0
DEFENSE
Heroes
Dexter Lawerence (elite)
Leonard Williams (elite)
D.J. Davidson (elite)
Goats
A'Shawn Robinson
Bobby Okereke
Jason Pinnock
Jihad Ward
Micah McFadden
Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Tre Hawkins III
Boogie Basham
Kayvon Thibodeaux
Here are the pass-blocking grades
Evan Neal 48.2
John Michael Schmitz Jr. 22.8
Joshua Ezeudu 11.7
Marcus McKethan 3.9
Shane Lemieux 3.8
Here are the bad tackling grades
Jason Pinnock 25.8
Tre Hawkins III 26.3
Kayvon Thibodeaux 27.4
Deonte Banks 30.1
Micah McFadden 30.2
Bobby Okereke 42.5
Xavier McKinney 48.0
We need a rating lower than Goat to accurately capture Shane L performance. Is ass-clown acceptable?
McFadden shouldn't be on the GOAT list
Quote from: kingm56 on September 22, 2023, 02:32:54 PMWe need a rating lower than Goat to accurately capture Shane L performance. Is ass-clown acceptable?
Sadly, that wasn't even the lowest pass-blocking grade for a Giants O-linemen this season.
Game one- Mark Glowinski- 1.0 pass-blocking grade
Quote from: T200 on September 22, 2023, 02:35:08 PMMcFadden shouldn't be on the GOAT list
Tim,
PFF credited McFadden with 3 missed tackles which helped drag down his score
Quote from: MightyGiants on September 22, 2023, 02:37:17 PMTim,
PFF credited McFadden with 3 missed tackles which helped drag down his score
They need to recalculate the weight of missed tackles. He's credited with 9 solo tackles, 4 for a loss. One of the few defensive bright spots last night.
Quote from: T200 on September 22, 2023, 02:39:48 PMThey need to recalculate the weight of missed tackles. He's credited with 9 solo tackles, 4 for a loss. One of the few defensive bright spots last night.
Also, not all missed tackles are equal. I could miss a tackle that results in a 1 yard gain, or miss a tackle for a 99 yard gain. Both shouldn't be considered equal as a player may have the cognitive whereabouts to know when to gamble for a TO opportunity, vice when a sure tackle is needed.
Quote from: kingm56 on September 22, 2023, 02:32:54 PMWe need a rating lower than Goat to accurately capture Shane L performance. Is ass-clown acceptable?
Give him the Ian Allen award for best imitation of a turnstile to the QB.
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/LtjtdcVbKNefMGmWMDewpjZ77kY=/0x0:1818x1168/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:1818x1168):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24943606/Screenshot_2023_09_22_at_10.08.44_AM.png)
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/h6ZPR2L9pw3flLDBMgpuPwabavw=/0x0:1536x1242/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:1536x1242):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24943774/Screenshot_2023_09_22_at_10.09.39_AM.png)
I know Jones just missed, but he seems to be getting a pass here, mainly because of his 2nd half last week. IMVHO he did nothing to elevate the play of the offense. He doesn't look down the field (please don't tell me he didn't have time). He has become so comfortable at throwing these 5-yard passes that he barely looks elsewhere. Last year it was the WRs got no separation. Now we have a new crop, especially with speed, yet we just don't see very many passes down the field. Sorry, Jones may not have time for deep throws, but he certainly has time for 10-15-yard passes. I know he received all the praise last week and he did show he has the capability to raise the team, but more times than not, he fails to do that. He should be on the big BOO of the week also. When he plays well, we say so, yet when he doesn't it's always an excuse.
Quote from: LennG on September 22, 2023, 02:56:35 PMGive him the Ian Allen award for best imitation of a turnstile to the QB.
Lenny, I actually think that's an insult to Ian Allen. As bad as he was, Shame is worse...much worse.
Wow, those o line grades are insane. Guess we need AT, Brederson and glow back. Disappointed Ezuada and McKethan bombed, surprise about Schmitz. The o line coach should be on the hot seat.Thibs bombed as well.
Watching from the stands it did not look that bad for pass protection, except the Lemuix whiff
Wow. i honestly thought the oline played a little better than those scores suggest.
Those grades seem low for the Oline as it seemed Jones had decent to average protection. I seen one play where it appeared he had time to throw to Hyatt who wasn't open yet but was and if Jones just threw it it would have been a TD
Quote from: sooners56 on September 22, 2023, 04:25:36 PMThose grades seem low for the Oline as it seemed Jones had decent to average protection. I seen one play where it appeared he had time to throw to Hyatt who wasn't open yet but was and if Jones just threw it it would have been a TD
I don't know, but I can say all my years of subscribing to PFF, I have never seen a worse collective pass-blocking grade for an O-line
Quote from: sooners56 on September 22, 2023, 04:25:36 PMThose grades seem low for the Oline as it seemed Jones had decent to average protection. I seen one play where it appeared he had time to throw to Hyatt who wasn't open yet but was and if Jones just threw it it would have been a TD
I saw that play as well. All he had to do was hoist one up and let Hyatt run under it. Maybe Jones is shell-shocked from all the abuse, but he is being paid big-time money, not to look for easy 5-yard gains which look good on the score sheet, but not on the scoreboard.
Why are we standing pat with this horrible OL? We know certain guys would be bagging groceries and not trying to protect our QB. I know, I know all the stories, but there has to some one better on some team's practice squad. They couldn't be any orse than what we already have. TRY SOMETHING.
Collins from Dallas is out there, and so is Pugh, and I'm sure several other guys would be willing to have a tryout. Why are we sticking with t his just horrible collection of so-called football players?
Quote from: LennG on September 22, 2023, 05:20:52 PMI saw that play as well. All he had to do was hoist one up and let Hyatt run under it. Maybe Jones is shell-shocked from all the abuse, but he is being paid big-time money, not to look for easy 5-yard gains which look good on the score sheet, but not on the scoreboard.
That's an unfair statement, Lenn.
Quote from: LennG on September 22, 2023, 07:36:32 PMWhy? Elaberate.
Because you accused him of making plays that look good on a stat sheet as if that's his intention, Lenn.
Watching the All-22, I'm able to see much more because I get two views of every play. One showing the entire field and one from behind the Line. I'm at around the mid third quarter and I can see that Jones missed a few plays where if he hung in there, he could have hit Hyatt twice downfield and a couple of high low options where he went low with the high open. On other plays however, the Receivers were either covered, the Oline broke down and he had to leave the pocket or hurry the throw or he was sacked, or the play call was to an intended Receiver.
He wasn't shell shocked this game. Quite frankly, the Oline played poorly even putting aside the lack of a running game. They whiffed in pass protection and run blocking. Many plays were designed for short throws.
You know that if I see DJ played a bad game, I wouldn't hold back as I have many times. This wasn't all on him. And he certainly wasn't intentionally taking the easy out. They would have been difficult throws or he just didn't see them before they developed and the other option was open. The thing with Hyatt, is he looks covered until he's down field and then he makes a move and accelerates to gain separation. I have to say, most QB's would have done the same thing if not all. It's going to have to take a leap of faith as the Rush is bearing down and then decide which way he's going to cut to throw the ball before he's actually open downfield. Eventually when they get on the same page through experience, they will be a lethal combination. But if the line doesn't hold up to give him the time to make an accurate throw, it's going to be tough.
Quote from: LennG on September 22, 2023, 05:24:28 PMWhy are we standing pat with this horrible OL? We know certain guys would be bagging groceries and not trying to protect our QB. I know, I know all the stories, but there has to some one better on some team's practice squad. They couldn't be any orse than what we already have. TRY SOMETHING.
Collins from Dallas is out there, and so is Pugh, and I'm sure several other guys would be willing to have a tryout. Why are we sticking with t his just horrible collection of so-called football players?
To be fair Lenn chemistry with an offensive line is just as important as their ability. If you're always changing up players on the line it's difficult to develop that chemistry. Just look at the lines that made up the last set of championship teams. Outside of Snee there wasn't an elite level linemen in those units. But together they played well.
There has to be something wrong with these ratings
McFadden played the game of his life and was all over the field- he's a goat?
By that measure the much heralded Bobby O would be a lizard....this guy was supposed to solve all our MLB problem NOT!!!! 3 games now I have never heard his name mentioned on any play
Also Williams and Lawrence should return their game checks for the reason- non-performance
Sean Lemeiux? was it old timers night? give me a brake
Quote from: BluesCruz on September 23, 2023, 09:36:39 AMThere has to be something wrong with these ratings
McFadden played the game of his life and was all over the field- he's a goat?
By that measure the much heralded Bobby O would be a lizard....this guy was supposed to solve all our MLB problem NOT!!!! 3 games now I have never heard his name mentioned on any play
Also Williams and Lawrence should return their game checks for the reason- non-performance
Sean Lemeiux? was it old timers night? give me a brake
Williams and Lawrence were graded Elite.
You could make the argument through 3 games though it's not saying much that Dexter Lawrence has been their best player on either side of the ball.
It's nice to see Davidson doing well. If he develops into a good NT, he can help sustain's Lawrence elite level over the season.
If Jones is making plays designed solely to pad his stats, he's not doing a very good job, because his stats are, to put it as gently as I can, not very good. So I don't view that as the case either.
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 23, 2023, 10:09:09 AMWilliams and Lawrence were graded Elite.
Did you think they were? I understand at their weight and playing up the middle its hard to get to the QB
but I saw many plays where both were moved aside for McCaffery.
The money they are getting paid they both should be dominant not just OK. Oh well the schedule eases up a bit now. Its time to regroup and move up in the standings. Im optomistic we can return to 2022 form.
I'm dying to see Grey at RB. Hope he gets a series this coming game. If we had kept Richie James there would be no fear of using our return man on regular downs. Who is backing up Grey as a returner?
Quote from: BluesCruz on September 23, 2023, 11:33:19 AMDid you think they were? I understand at their weight and playing up the middle its hard to get to the QB
but I saw many plays where both were moved aside for McCaffery.
The money they are getting paid they both should be dominant not just OK. Oh well the schedule eases up a bit now. Its time to regroup and move up in the standings. Im optomistic we can return to 2022 form.
I'm dying to see Grey at RB. Hope he gets a series this coming game. If we had kept Richie James there would be no fear of using our return man on regular downs. Who is backing up Grey as a returner?
They have gap assignments and the ILBs fill the open gaps. Also are you sure on those plays they weren't Sub'd out? Look at the snap counts. PFF isolates every player for each of their snaps.
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 22, 2023, 08:44:35 PMBecause you accused him of making plays that look good on a stat sheet as if that's his intention, Lenn.
Watching the All-22, I'm able to see much more because I get two views of every play. One showing the entire field and one from behind the Line. I'm at around the mid third quarter and I can see that Jones missed a few plays where if he hung in there, he could have hit Hyatt twice downfield and a couple of high low options where he went low with the high open. On other plays however, the Receivers were either covered, the Oline broke down and he had to leave the pocket or hurry the throw or he was sacked, or the play call was to an intended Receiver.
He wasn't shell shocked this game. Quite frankly, the Oline played poorly even putting aside the lack of a running game. They whiffed in pass protection and run blocking. Many plays were designed for short throws.
You know that if I see DJ played a bad game, I wouldn't hold back as I have many times. This wasn't all on him. And he certainly wasn't intentionally taking the easy out. They would have been difficult throws or he just didn't see them before they developed and the other option was open. The thing with Hyatt, is he looks covered until he's down field and then he makes a move and accelerates to gain separation. I have to say, most QB's would have done the same thing if not all. It's going to have to take a leap of faith as the Rush is bearing down and then decide which way he's going to cut to throw the ball before he's actually open downfield. Eventually when they get on the same page through experience, they will be a lethal combination. But if the line doesn't hold up to give him the time to make an accurate throw, it's going to be tough.
OK, Ed. Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't think Jones was intentionally throwing soft easy passes just to pad his stats, but it seems as if that is his motif if you know what I mean. He is a lot more comfortable with a throw like that than hanging in there and making a better play. PLUS, if you remember during the game, they had a stat on the TV about Jones and his passing while under duress (I think it was something like 2-8) and while not under duress which was something like 12-16. So if he was able to throw 12 passes not under duress and had completions with them, they all were under 10 yards. Add to that, Purdy was rushed the entire game, something like 80% of his drop-backs, yet he fired off several long passes to his WRs that were caught or had a PI on them. Purdy has all of 10 games of experience, yet he trusts his WRs to catch something he throws up. This is Jones's 5th year and we still are talking the same old, same old, every week. Purdey is making the absolute minimum for an NFL player. Yet Jones is making 40 Mil a year and he can't throw a deep pass to a more than speedy WR? Really, something is wrong with this scenario.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 09:10:15 AMTo be fair Lenn chemistry with an offensive line is just as important as their ability. If you're always changing up players on the line it's difficult to develop that chemistry. Just look at the lines that made up the last set of championship teams. Outside of Snee there wasn't an elite level linemen in those units. But together they played well.
Rambo
When you have guys like this playing on the OL, no amount of playing together is going to make them better. I fully understand what you are alluding to, but you have to have guys who know how to play a position out there to develop the cohesiveness.
Quote from: LennG on September 23, 2023, 12:30:28 PMOK, Ed. Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't think Jones was intentionally throwing soft easy passes just to pad his stats, but it seems as if that is his motif if you know what I mean. He is a lot more comfortable with a throw like that than hanging in there and making a better play. PLUS, if you remember during the game, they had a stat on the TV about Jones and his passing while under duress (I think it was something like 2-8) and while not under duress which was something like 12-16. So if he was able to throw 12 passes not under duress and had completions with them, they all were under 10 yards. Add to that, Purdy was rushed the entire game, something like 80% of his drop-backs, yet he fired off several long passes to his WRs that were caught or had a PI on them. Purdy has all of 10 games of experience, yet he trusts his WRs to catch something he throws up. This is Jones's 5th year and we still are talking the same old, same old, every week. Purdey is making the absolute minimum for an NFL player. Yet Jones is making 40 Mil a year and he can't throw a deep pass to a more than speedy WR? Really, something is wrong with this scenario.
Ok, you have a good point there. Jones' YPA for this game was a little over 4. Just a couple of stats, that I know you hate. Aggressiveness for Purdy was 16.2% and Jones was just 6.3% so to your point, Purdy was more aggressive and threw into tight windows. Air yards to sticks show the distance to the first down marker and if the QB is counting on his receiver to get YAC to get the first down. Jones was closer with -3.9 and Purdy -5.1 yards. Completed air yards were close. Jones 3.4 and Purdy 4, as Purdy threw a lot of short swing and screen passes. So Purdy was more aggressive but his players gained over 200 yards after catch. I recall Jones was like 40. Deebo had an average of 13.3 YAC and Kittle had 7 average YAC. WDR- 2.9, Slayton- 1, Waller- 2.3 and Campbell- .5 YAC.
Aside from all that, Purdy got rid of the ball faster and his pressure was nowhere near the same that Jones had.
I think you can see that Purdy had by far the better Receivers that day and Jones had dropped and deflected passes.
I agree with you that there were open receivers that Jones failed to throw to. There weren't that many though.
I can't believe I'm defending Daniel Jones. Rich, where are you? Isn't this your job? lol
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving/2023/REG/3#yards
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2023/REG/3#average-intended-yards
Just a quick point. Deebo, Kittle, and CMC earned their YACatch and YAContact. There was poor tackling but they played a monster game and they deserve credit. If it was the other way around and Breda, Waller and Slayton had those numbers, we would be :Chestram: :Chestram: :Chestram: all over the place.
Quote from: T200 on September 22, 2023, 02:39:48 PMThey need to recalculate the weight of missed tackles. He's credited with 9 solo tackles, 4 for a loss. One of the few defensive bright spots last night.
Giants' Player of the Week, and it isn't even close the first runner up.
Forget the stat sheet, that kid was all over the place and his picture-perfect tackle on McCaffrey belongs on the season highlight reel.
Peace!
Quote from: LennG on September 23, 2023, 12:30:28 PMOK, Ed. Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't think Jones was intentionally throwing soft easy passes just to pad his stats, but it seems as if that is his motif if you know what I mean. He is a lot more comfortable with a throw like that than hanging in there and making a better play. PLUS, if you remember during the game, they had a stat on the TV about Jones and his passing while under duress (I think it was something like 2-8) and while not under duress which was something like 12-16. So if he was able to throw 12 passes not under duress and had completions with them, they all were under 10 yards. Add to that, Purdy was rushed the entire game, something like 80% of his drop-backs, yet he fired off several long passes to his WRs that were caught or had a PI on them. Purdy has all of 10 games of experience, yet he trusts his WRs to catch something he throws up. This is Jones's 5th year and we still are talking the same old, same old, every week. Purdey is making the absolute minimum for an NFL player. Yet Jones is making 40 Mil a year and he can't throw a deep pass to a more than speedy WR? Really, something is wrong with this scenario.
Hi Lenn,
I like your observation here. I think what you witnessed on Thursday is less of a 5th year QB versus a 2nd year Mr. Irrelevant. The latter, whom I watch almost on a weekly basis, is a diamond in the rough for Shanahan's offensive system and his work ethic, as was described on the pre-game profile of him, shows this kid has a passion and determination about him which that 49ers team feeds off of and everything just "clicked" when he took the field as a starter last year. The kid has yet to lose a game in this league! (NOTE: I'm not counting that NFC Championship last year because of his injury; I still feel he would have beaten the Iggles had that injury not occurred).
Maybe that's all it is. Even Mr. Irrelevant can have the "it" factor. Seems like it's so in San Francisco.
As far as the Giants are concerned, I share your frustration that the offense, as a whole, has disappointed us greatly to start the season.
Peace!
Quote from: kartanoman on September 24, 2023, 02:33:22 PMHi Lenn,
I like your observation here. I think what you witnessed on Thursday is less of a 5th year QB versus a 2nd year Mr. Irrelevant. The latter, whom I watch almost on a weekly basis, is a diamond in the rough for Shanahan's offensive system and his work ethic, as was described on the pre-game profile of him, shows this kid has a passion and determination about him which that 49ers team feeds off of and everything just "clicked" when he took the field as a starter last year. The kid has yet to lose a game in this league! (NOTE: I'm not counting that NFC Championship last year because of his injury; I still feel he would have beaten the Iggles had that injury not occurred).
Maybe that's all it is. Even Mr. Irrelevant can have the "it" factor. Seems like it's so in San Francisco.
As far as the Giants are concerned, I share your frustration that the offense, as a whole, has disappointed us greatly to start the season.
Peace!
Let's hope we have the same diamond in the rough on our practice squad