Giants need to let the playmakers play

[MightyGiants]

Some players are special in terms of their ability to make things happen.  The Giants have two such players in Hyatt and Simmons.  Yet here were their snap counts from last night:

Hyatt 16 32%

Simmons 25 30%

[B1GBLUE]

i get that guys need to earn their stripes. but hyatt is easily the most dynamic receiver we have. you have to at least try to get him involved. maybe they felt his strengths werent a good matchup against SF, but...who was? no one did well last night.

simmons i havent seen enough of, and he was a late signing. maybe he is still picking up the playbook. i think we'll see him settle in soon enough. also with mcfadden having a standout game, it takes away snaps from simmons.

[killarich]

Some players are special in terms of their ability to make things happen.  The Giants have two such players in Hyatt and Simmons.  Yet here were their snap counts from last night:

Hyatt 16 32%

Simmons 25 30%

I agree on both ....the speed on both is crazy and you can see on the screen

Hyatt sitting for most of the game is criminal

Simmons needs more snaps ..... his sideline to sideline effort and speed is great

[kingm56]

Simmons is not special; bad teams don't trade young 'special' players for a ham sandwich.  He's not going to magically become something hes never been by simply changing his helmet logo.  I like Hyatt, but he's a 3rd round pick...we don't know what he is/will be.

C Mack, Debo Samuel and Nick Bosa are special, Hyatt and Simmons are not; although, there's still plenty of time for the former to become special. The Giants problem continues to stem from the lack of dynamic players.   

[T200]

Simmons is not special; bad teams don't trade young 'special' players for a ham sandwich.  He's not going to magically become something hes never been by simply changing his helmet logo.  I like Hyatt, but he's a 3rd round pick...we don't know what he is/will be.

C Mack, Debo Samuel and Nick Bosa are special, Hyatt and Simmons are not; although, there's still plenty of time for the former to become special. The Giants problem continues to stem from the lack of dynamic players.   

Simmons wasn't special to the Cards.

Look at our defensive roster. Who are the most talented players on defense? Simmons is easily top 5, if not top 3. So, in relation to this Giants defense, he's special. He's the most versatile defender we have right now. They need to have him on the field.

[MightyGiants]

Simmons is not special; bad teams don't trade young 'special' players for a ham sandwich.  He's not going to magically become something hes never been by simply changing his helmet logo.  I like Hyatt, but he's a 3rd round pick...we don't know what he is/will be.

C Mack, Debo Samuel and Nick Bosa are special, Hyatt and Simmons are not; although, there's still plenty of time for the former to become special. The Giants problem continues to stem from the lack of dynamic players.   

If you watch his tape, you see him making special plays.   The issue is one of inconsistency, not a lack of ability to make plays.

[kingm56]

Simmons wasn't special to the Cards.

Look at our defensive roster. Who are the most talented players on defense? Simmons is easily top 5, if not top 3. So, in relation to this Giants defense, he's special. He's the most versatile defender we have right now. They need to have him on the field.

Tim,

That's like saying Bridea is special because he's the Giants 2d best rb.  The Giants don't play against each other; so, I humbly suggest players should be compared against their aggregate contemporaries, not their relative standing on their team. In short, I don't think a single DC is  planning to defend against Simmons, which negates the 'special' qualifier. 

[T200]

Tim,

That's like saying Bridea is special because he's the Giants 2d best rb.  The Giants don't play against each other; so, I humbly suggest players should be compared against their aggregate contemporaries, not their relative standing on their team. In short, I don't think a single DC is gaming planning to defend against Simmons, which negates the 'special' qualifier. 

You're focused on a label, which you yourself introduced into the conversation to diminish what Simmons can do for this defense. No one said he was special. You injected that he wasn't. It doesn't matter if he is or isn't. It doesn't matter if another team doesn't game plan specifically for him.

What matters is whether he can make plays when he's on the field for the Giants. Does he?

[killarich]

Simmons is not special; bad teams don't trade young 'special' players for a ham sandwich.  He's not going to magically become something hes never been by simply changing his helmet logo.  I like Hyatt, but he's a 3rd round pick...we don't know what he is/will be.

C Mack, Debo Samuel and Nick Bosa are special, Hyatt and Simmons are not; although, there's still plenty of time for the former to become special. The Giants problem continues to stem from the lack of dynamic players.   

I dont think anyone is saying he is special or an elite player

But its no denying that AZ is/was in turmoil

A lot of Simmons downfall is on himself but could also be a fact that AZ just wasnt using him right

Players have gotten released on a team to only be players/starters on others ... So I wouldnt say a 7th round pick is just a ham sandwich

All that being said I just think Simmons in the right system can be at least a factor.... I thought Winks system would be that... but the defense has been the weakness of the team so far

[kingm56]

You're focused on a label, which you yourself introduced into the conversation to diminish what Simmons can do for this defense. No one said he was special. You injected that he wasn't. It doesn't matter if he is or isn't. It doesn't matter if another team doesn't game plan specifically for him.

What matters is whether he can make plays when he's on the field for the Giants. Does he?

That's fair, Tim; I should swap special with 'playmaker.'  Simmons, by any definition, is not a playmaker.  He's vastly overrated by Giant fans based on his prior draft status.  I saw the same thing with J Peppers.  I'm not even sure I would classify Simmons as 'good', let alone a playmaker.  If we're counting on him to be a significant difference-maker, we're in real trouble.

[Ed Vette]

Some players are special in terms of their ability to make things happen.  The Giants have two such players in Hyatt and Simmons.  Yet here were their snap counts from last night:

Hyatt 16 32%

Simmons 25 30%

They also need to give Hyatt other routes to run so he can be a larger part of this Offense. If they limit him to Go Routes and Posts, it reduces his playing time. Watch the All 22 when it's available. The Niners locked down the deep passes because there was no running game. The pass rush that ensued as a result gave Jones no time to wait for any deep pass to get open.

[T200]

That's fair, Tim; I should swap special with 'playmaker.'  Simmons, by any definition, is not a playmaker.  He's vastly overrated by Giant fans based on his prior draft status.  I saw the same thing with J Peppers.  I'm not even sure I would classify Simmons as 'good', let alone a playmaker.  If we're counting on him to be a significant difference-maker, we're in real trouble.

Then why have any of them take the field if we aren't counting on them to make plays? I don't get it 

You talk about the lack of talent and then you say we shouldn't expect a talented player like him to make a difference. I get that you aren't big on him and I respect that. I think he can be a difference maker, more so than what we're seeing from Thibs. As the season goes on, I hope to see more impact from Simmons.

[Rambo89]

With Hyatt I expect he'll be more involved as the season moves along.  We're only three games in and this game was on a short week.

[kingm56]

Then why have any of them take the field if we aren't counting on them to make plays? I don't get it 

Isn't that the point?  From his snap count, the Giants are keeping him on the sideline.  So, clearly, they don't view him as a 'playmaker' either.  What I don't understand is why we think Simmons is a playmaker, when his prior and current team clearly don't.  He was brought in to be a situational player...he's fulfilling that role. There was a good reason we got him for a 7th round pick.

Do we think playing Simmons more would improve our defense?  I do not; fundamentally, our biggest problems are stopping the run and generating pressure.  Simmons is certainly not going to help with the former and has limited success with the latter over 4 seasons.  He's not going to make the difference between winning and loosing.

[killarich]

They also need to give Hyatt other routes to run so he can be a larger part of this Offense. If they limit him to Go Routes and Posts, it reduces his playing time. Watch the All 22 when it's available. The Niners locked down the deep passes because there was no running game. The pass rush that ensued as a result gave Jones no time to wait for any deep pass to get open.

Yes , I see these catches that Paris was getting.... and was thinking if that was Hyatt he would def have more YAC