Giants need to let the playmakers play

[MightyGiants]

Here is a nice sample of the types of plays Simmons is capable of

[kingm56]

I dont see how we can just give up on Simmons being a possible playmaker for us

If you think Flowers is a bad example

How about BJ Hill and Devon Kennard ?

Both were similar to Simmons in which they were just ehh starters or shown flashes ...go to new teams and look good ...

Difference is Simmons was obviously in a bad situation and misused

Its 3 games into the season ... I dont understand the negativity towards at least giving him a shot at a higher playcount

BJ Hill and Kennard evolved into playmakers/difference-makers?  That's news to me...

Both were good players while they were here and remained good players after they left.  I don't know if you recall, but the majority of this board was peeved when the Giants traded Hill for a failed 1st round center, who also failed to magically become better with a team change.  Like most transactions under DG tenure, it was a terrible trade. 

I highly suspect Simmons will continue to be the same player he was in Az; just like 99% of all players entering their 4th seasons.  He'll flash here and there, but I would not count on him to significantly alter our aggregate defense.  He's doesn't have those skillsets; again, there's a reason a team desperate for young talent let him walk.  Equally, there's a reason a team was only willing to part with a 7th round pick to secure his services; that pick is completely inconsequential as >80% of 7th round picks are out of the league in less than 2-years. 

The Giants acquired him to be a situational role player, not the cornerstone of our def.  I don't object to him playing more, I just don't believe it will make a materiel difference.  Finally, his size makes him a difficult player to fill a specific position.  So, who's playing time would you curtail to insert Simmons? 

[Philosophers]

Simmons is not special; bad teams don't trade young 'special' players for a ham sandwich.  He's not going to magically become something hes never been by simply changing his helmet logo.  I like Hyatt, but he's a 3rd round pick...we don't know what he is/will be.

C Mack, Debo Samuel and Nick Bosa are special, Hyatt and Simmons are not; although, there's still plenty of time for the former to become special. The Giants problem continues to stem from the lack of dynamic players.   

It's a facts versus circumstances debate.  Sometimes a player simply is not producing results because of circumstances.  You can't draw conclusions just because of results.  A different environment, different scheme, different way a player is communicated to, may sometimes be the ingredients to produce a different result.

[killarich]

BJ Hill and Kennard evolved into playmakers/difference-makers?  That's news to me...

Both were good players while they were here and remained good players after they left.  I don't know if you recall, but the majority of this board was peeved when the Giants traded Hill for a failed 1st round center, who also failed to magically become better with a team change.  Like most transactions under DG tenure, it was a terrible trade. 

I highly suspect Simmons will continue to be the same player he was in Az; just like 99% of all players entering their 4th seasons.  He'll flash here and there, but I would not count on him to significantly alter our aggregate defense.  He's doesn't have those skillsets; again, there's a reason a team desperate for young talent let him walk.  Equally, there's a reason a team was only willing to part with a 7th round pick to secure his services; that pick is completely inconsequential as >80% of 7th round picks are out of the league in less than 2-years. 

The Giants acquired him to be a situational role player, not the cornerstone of our def.  I don't object to him playing more, I just don't believe it will make a materiel difference.  Finally, his size makes him a difficult player to fill a specific position.  So, who's playing time would you curtail to insert Simmons? 

Kennard became better after he left

And no one is asking Simmons to be elite... all im saying is give him a chance

[killarich]

It's a facts versus circumstances debate.  Sometimes a player simply is not producing results because of circumstances.  You can't draw conclusions just because of results.  A different environment, different scheme, different way a player is communicated to, may sometimes be the ingredients to produce a different result.

Geno Smith was a career journeyman ... suddenly in his 30's he had a pro bowl season .....

IDK why anyone is so quick to give up on someone like Simmons it makes absolutely zero sense

Like you said ... maybe a different scenery is needed

[kingm56]

Kennard became better after he left

And no one is asking Simmons to be elite... all im saying is give him a chance

No he didn't...he got more playing time playing on the NFLs worst def...that's not the same as getting better.  His 16 games stats were remarkably the same.  Besides, Det only won 8 games in the two years while he was there.  Btw, if he improved so much, why did he only last 2 years in Det?  They cut him before his contract expired. You're having a hard time finding a tangible example because they're rare...like less than 1% rare.  Fans believe system and/or coaching changes can fundamentally alter a veteran player's trajectory, but that's incredibly rare in the modern NFL. Consider our Giants, in the last decade, what veteran player proved to be materially better after we signed and/or traded for them?  I honestly can't think of a single example, but could be overlooking someone.  Regardless, in the modern NFL, it's rare. 

Again, no objections to Simmons playing more. Who do you pull to give him more playing time?  That's lingering question I have. 

[kingm56]

Geno Smith was a career journeyman ... suddenly in his 30's he had a pro bowl season .....

IDK why anyone is so quick to give up on someone like Simmons it makes absolutely zero sense

Like you said ... maybe a different scenery is needed

I suggest you go back and look again.  Geno only started 20 something games before the Jets pulled the plug.  In subsequent starts after his 2d season, including his start with us, he played well.  It takes at least two full seasons to know what you have at QB...he wasn't given that luxury.  Besides, this is a massive fallacy; in short, you're focusing on one player to support your narrative, while simultaneously ignoring the literal thousands of examples that suggest such ascensions are rare. 

[DragonSoul]

Some players are special in terms of their ability to make things happen.  The Giants have two such players in Hyatt and Simmons.  Yet here were their snap counts from last night:

Hyatt 16 32%

Simmons 25 30%

I agree, but I do think it's possibly because they are still learning. Then again, just tell them where to go and let them loose.

With a bigger break than normal before our next game, we may see that change as well as others.