Big Blue Huddle

https://twitter.com/ustadium/status/1783287711563980851?s=46

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 21, 2024, 10:16:42 AMSadly, and I mean sadly, here's the conclusion about the Giants for those who don't want to look it up:

Despite their illustrious history, the Giants are without a signature draft class. Still, in 1956, New York found a Hall of Famer who inspired a documentary in linebacker Sam Huff. Huff, who earned enshrinement into the Hall of Fame, was arguably the most iconic defensive player of his era. Alongside Huff, the Giants also selected defensive end Jim Katcavage in the fourth round, who made two first-team All-Pro appearances and is credited with 92.5 unofficial sacks.

At least we have a handful of Super Bowl wins, but how sad is it that our favorite team has never nailed a draft in 100 YEARS of drafting?  Does anyone here want to be next-in-line after Schoen? lol

Bob

I don't know if I agree with this. The 2007 draft directly caused the team to win the Superbowl as every single player heavily contributed.

Going back a couple of years, the 2005 draft was light on picks but gave us Brandon Jacobs, Corey Webster, and Justin Tuck. That was a monster draft too.

That's such an overwhelming trade in favor of the Giants - only Howie Roseman gets offers like that.

At best, Denver would offer the pick + Surtain for #6 and probably our 2nd round pick as well.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 19, 2024, 01:19:26 PMhttps://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1781371793753727263

So we should expect the Giants to take Penix?

Eagles are the most surprising. They've been good since even before I started following football, so their history pre-Dick Vermeil must have been downright dire.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2024, 04:19:47 PMAccumulating draft capital is always good in my mind as the so-called quality at the top often does not correlate to NFL success.  Love the more bites at the apple strategy.

Yep - and if this draft is deep, you're not trading a blue chip for red chips, but maybe a blue and a purple.

For example - Gettleman did the right thing when he traded down in 2021. The mistake(s) were drafting Toney and Neal with those picks. There were clearly blue chip players drafted not too far after both that we could have had.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 06, 2024, 03:22:07 PMhttps://x.com/albertbreer/status/1776689796569575901?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

It's starting to appear as if Penix might not be available if the Giants somehow move down from #6. Crazy.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 05, 2024, 03:57:35 PMstuff

I think you might have replied to the wrong post?

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 30, 2024, 07:54:21 AMI think one thing that is forgotten in the Josh Allen comparisons is just how big of an anomaly Josh Allen really was.   Josh Allen was very inaccurate in college despite his big arm (similar to Maye).  Josh did what is really seen over the past decades: an inaccurate college QB improved his accuracy at the next level.   Historically, QBs tend to be less accurate (or the same), and the next level, they don't improve.  By the NFL, their throwing mechanics are essentially ingrained.   

Drafting Maye thinking he will be another Josh Allen is like expecting lightning to strike twice.

Wasn't Josh Allen inaccurate in college because his receivers set records for dropped balls?

I just hope this means he and the other Maras are done meddling.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 24, 2024, 07:43:58 PMI get it, but it was still a material trade-up in terms of the assets they gave up.

I wonder how big the sample size is for that supposed 90% failure rate. I can't imagine it's that big.

So I'm curious, let me take a look at a 30 year span from 1993-2022 (2023 is too soon to tell). I'll bold the ones that I consider to be busts or disappointments and increase the size of the ones I consider historic/all-time busts.

* - for all intents and purposes
** - he most definitely was a bust from the perspective of the pick used on him

1993 - Drew Bledsoe (1)
1994 - Heath Shuler (3)
1995 - Steve McNair (3), Kerry Collins** (5 - traded down from 1)
1996 - None
1997 - None
1998 - Peyton Manning (1), Ryan Leaf (2 - traded up from 3)
1999 - Tim Couch (1), Donovan F. McNabb (2), Akili Smith (3)
2000 - no QBs in the top 5
2001 - Michael Vick (1 - traded up from 5)
2002 - David Carr (1), Joey Harrington (3)
2003 - Carson Palmer (1)
2004 - Eli Manning (1 - traded up from 4*), Philip Rivers (4 - traded down from 1*)
2005 - Alex Smith (1)
2006 - Vince Young (3)
2007 - Jamarcus Russell (1)
2008 - Matt Ryan (3)
2009 - Matt Stafford (1), Mark Sanchez (5 - traded up from 17)
2010 - Sam Bradford (1)
2011 - Cam Newton (1)
2012 - Andrew Luck (1), RG3 (2 - traded up from 6)
2013 - None
2014 - Blake Bortles (3)
2015 - Jameis Winston (1), Marcus Mariota (2)
2016 - Jared Goff (1 - traded up from 15), Carson Wentz (2 - traded up from 8)
2017 - Mitch Trubisky (2 - traded up from 3)
2018 - Baker Mayfield (1), Sam Darnold (3 - traded up from 6)
2019 - Kyler Murray (1)
2020 - Joe Burrow (1), Tua Tagovailoa (5)
2021 - Trevor Lawrence (1), Zach Wilson (2), Trey Lance (3 - traded up from 12)
2022 - None

In conclusion, it looks like here are the times a team moved up into the top 5 to get a QB:

Mark Sanchez
RG3
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
Sam Darnold
Trey Lance

Edit AGAIN: Depending on how you look at that, that's a 83% failure rate or a 100% failure rate considering the Rams gave up on Goff. I struggle to classify Goff. (And Wentz for that matter)

I'm not sure where the 90% figure came from. Not a large sample size but interesting.

Promoting Chris Mara to SVP of Player Personnel, followed closely by Reese's Superbowl clock in 2013.

Almost every other bad move this team has made spiraled out from those two original bad decisions.

The first one enshrined owner meddling as part of the player selection process.

The second one enshrined the philosophy of "we can just patch the team and make another run".

• Drafting Beckham over Donald and Martin? To give the team a spark.
• Hiring Gettleman? Continuity, we just need to patch the team.
• Hiring Shurmur? Get Eli a QB whisperer.
• Drafting Barkley? Let's get Eli the best weapon possible to make another run.
• Drafting Jones? Okay, so Eli is getting old, let's find the closest thing we can to Eli and we can still make another run at it.

Oh wait, none of those moves were 10 years ago. But still, the last decade of bad moves stems from those two moves.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 24, 2024, 11:45:21 AMThe Ravens may have a model that emphasizes not trading up in general, but they absolutely traded up to get Lamar. And they gave up decent assets to do it. So I'm actually not sure their model applies to when they feel they are getting a franchise QB in return for the trade-up.

They traded up to the back of the 1st round.

Someone posted it somewhere, but trading up into the top 5 to get a QB has a 90% failure rate.

Quote from: katkavage on March 23, 2024, 05:37:49 PMI can't say why I feel this, but my gut tells me Penix might be, or will have the best career of all the 2024 QBs.

I think you could be right, if he goes to the right team and somehow stays healthy.

If he ends up on the Giants, the guy protecting his blindside is Evan Neal.

While Schoen and the Giants front office consider trading up, I hope they consider this fact. A +12 turnover ratio is hard to duplicate, meaning the team was actually a lot worse than the W/L record would indicate.