Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: sxdxca38 on Today at 06:40:43 PMIt is generally not good to attack or put down a poster and then say "did you bother to research your own question? clearly not"...

And then after doing so provide only one year, that is right, just one year (2011) of Eli Mannings fifteen-year career (2004-2018) to make your point, and then build an entire world view around it.

This is what we call the logical fallacy of cherry picking, using just one example and then building an entire world view around it, which misleads yourself and those who listen to you.

But this isn't the first time you have done this, you have a built-up history of this kind of behavior.

So let us begin to expose the faulty line of reasoning.

Has Eli Manning really played behind a terrible offensive line like "Kingm56" has claimed? Well, what do the facts actually show?

New York Giants offensive line rankings

2005 - ranked 4th best in the NFL

Link

2007 - The 2007 offensive line was one of the best in the league, if not the best. It was also completely healthy. Snee was a dominant player, and O'Hara and Seubert were excellent. McKenzie was one of the league's best right tackles and Diehl did an adequate job on the left side.

https://www.bigblueview.com/2012/6/20/3099072/2007-giants-vs-2011-giants-comparing-super-bowl-champs-offensive-lines

2008 - ranked #1

link

2009 - Considered the best offensive line in the league

link

So, I have just shown four years where Eli Manning played behind one of the best offensive lines in the NFL, and I haven't even begun to go through 2010-2018, but later I will.

In 2011, the only year that you shared, what you failed to bring out, was that he had three elite WR's to help him out, in Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, and Mario Manningham.

Cruz took a 9 yard out and ran it for 99 yards against the Jets for a TD. He did the same thing with a 7 yard out for 74 yards against the cowboys.

So, before you attack or attempt to put down another poster, which really isn't tolerated here, I would encourage you in the future, if you really want to know the correct answer to something, and to be taken seriously, it is best to look at all the years and all the data, to come to a proper conclusion, instead of only using one of Eli Mannings years.

Your stats are fine, but he did mention, most clearly, that Eli also played behind one of the worst OLs in the league and we won a SB behind them.
I don't care if Eli had the best OLs for most of his career, fact is Eli had one of the worst and he won with it. For all the excuses so many have given for Jones and his OL, how come he can't do the same?

 a new bunch of 'truisms'


When a kid says "Daddy, I want mommy" that's the kid version of "I'd like to speak to your supervisor".

If Adam and Eve had been really smart, they'd have eaten the snake instead of the apple and saved us all a lot of trouble.

We celebrated our anniversary last night with a couple of adult beverages ..Metamucil and Ensure.

Weight loss goal: To be able to clip my toenails and breathe at the same time.

After watching how some people wore their covid masks, I understand why contraception devices fail.

Some of my friends exercise every day. Meanwhile I'm watching a show I don't like because the remote fell on the floor.

For those of you that don't want Alexa or Siri listening in on your conversation, they're making a male version ...it doesn't listen to anything.

Now that Covid has everyone washing their hands correctly ...next week: Turn Signals.

Someone said, "Nothing rhymes with orange."  I said, "No, it doesn't."

The pessimist complains about the wind.  The optimist expects it to change.  The realist adjusts his sails.

There's a fine line between a numerator and a denominator. Only a fraction of people will find this funny.

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are.

I have many hidden talents. I just wish I could remember where I hid them.

My idea of a Super Bowl is a toilet that cleans itself.

Exercise helps you with decision-making. It's true. I went for a run this morning and decided I'm never going again.

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 06:31:52 AMDid you bother researching your own question? Clearly not...

Eli Manning
Without Question, Eli's best season was 2011, the only year he received All-Pro votes, was a Pro Bowler, and won a SB.  That year, PFF ranked the NYG Giants Oline #31 (#32 pass protection).  His running game was dead-last...he and JPP carried that team to the playoffs.
 
Here's the exert from PFF:

Yes, they won the Super Bowl, but they did so in spite of a line that sieved pressure throughout the year. Our lowest-ranked pass protecting line had problems all over, but nowhere as bad as at the tackle positions (especially once Will Beatty was lost for the year). It wasn't just the tackles however, with every member of the Giants' line earning a negative grade. This explains the drop-off in the run game and makes the season that Eli Manning had all the more remarkable.

Best Player: Before his season was cut short, Will Beatty (-1.2) was having a good first year starting ... outside of Trent Cole showing him what for in Week 11.

Worst Player: It's hard to look past David Diehl (-48.1) who was terrible at guard, and even worse at tackle. His on field performance is simply unacceptable, giving up a ridiculous nine sacks, eight hits and 48 hurries during the regular season.

Tom Brady
It's complete myth Tom Brady enjoyed top-tier protection throughout his career.  In 2014, 15 and 16, the onlines were bad...REAL BAD.  During that span, he continued to play at an AP/MVP level,.

Enjoy the PFF exerts:

2014:
23. New England Patriots

Pass Blocking Ranking: 31st, Run Blocking Ranking: 8th, Penalties Ranking: 19th

Stud: Our second-team All-Pro right tackle Sebastian Vollmer had himself another good year and avoided the injury bug for a change. Bonus.

Dud: The 306 snaps that Jordan Devey managed were brutal to watch at times. Not much of a pass blocker, he didn't exactly light it up in the run game either.

Breakdown: Nate Solder had a bad year by his standards and the interior gave up way too much pressure. They did bloody some rookies, but this group appeared a unit in transition, with the team trying to patch up something just good enough to not harm their skill players too much.

2015:
25. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Pass-blocking rank: 31st

Run-blocking rank: 12th

Penalties rank: 15th

Stud: Far from perfect, but Josh Kline looked the part when he got on the field.

Dud: Pick your poison here. None were truly atrocious, but most were well below average. None more so than Cameron Fleming, who allowed way too much pressure.

Summary: The good news is that, where they struggle (pass protection), they have a quarterback good enough to overcome it. But it was still so bad that you wonder how much easier (and better) life for Tom Brady could have been with better protection.
 
"I think we've established how atrocious the New England Patriots offensive line performed in 2015. Almost every single player to suit up on the line was hurt for some extended period of time, and the team had to rely on a series of young, inexperienced, and hurt players to protect the best player in the NFL."

According to Pro Football Focus, the Patriots offensive line ranked 31st in the league in pass protection, ahead of only the San Diego Chargers.
 
Key Takeaways:
1. Both the 2015 Pats and 2011 Giants won SBs with PFFs 31st and 32 ranked pass blocking olines
2. Prime Eli Manning was absolutely capable, and DID, overcome terrible oline play
3. Tom Brady was an MVP/AP/SP Winner with the NFLs "31 ranked pass protection
4. Tom Brady was capable of making his Line look better than they were
   2007: Brady was sacked 21 times
   2008: Brady injured, Matt Cassel was sacked 47 times with the same Oline and Coach
   2009: Brady returns and the line reverts to allowing just 16 sacks; funny how that works
5. Over the past few months, I've watched fans incorrectly attribute sacks allowed to the Oline, without giving any consideration to the QB; QBs who process poorly are sacked more...is that really a surprise?

I could provide a lot more data points, but I know your mind is made up and no amount of objective or subjective data will change it.  Regardless, your statement regarding Eli's and Brady's reliance on the oline has objectively been proven false. 

Matt

 Just an excellent post to show that QBs CAN perform with a very subpar OL. For all the excuses Jones has had for the past 4-5 years that he needs a great OL to become a real NFL QB, we have seen many instances of QBs having banner years when, in fact, their OL sucked.
Thanks for this great post.

Overall I have no bad feelings about OBJ and wish him the best. He sure seems to have matured a lot, and he prima donna we once knew is far gone. I think he is just happy to still be relevant.

 I couldn't start the day with my Newsday in front of me. Great sports section, love the extra daily puzzles they have now since the pandemic, and every once in a while I get my letter to the editor published.

The price has skyrocketed but I get a great deal from them and have had this same deal for the past 4 years.

Tomorrow marks the anniversary of the Kent State shootings that really shocked the world. May 4, 1970

https://www.history.com/news/kent-state-shootings-timeline

With what is happening in the world today, can something like this happen again?

Check out this article

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-news-why-did-new-york-giants-decide-to-stick-with-daniel-jones-co-owner-john-mara-s-heavy-influence/ar-AA1o6pTR?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=42a08b899d914261ad02f74e778ca1e0&ei=9

 I feel so bad for Sham. He was a great horse but against Secretariat, he just couldn't compete.

It wouldn't be Derby week without one of your great clips on this, and other amazing horses and races.

Thanks, it was a tremendous race.

              

Quote from: katkavage on May 03, 2024, 01:23:53 PMThank you, Pete Rozelle. He bestowed upon the Giants, whether they liked it or not, George Young. Appointed by Rozelle to save the floundering franchise. Given autonomy, Young put in process a plan. It delivered. And from Young and his doings the Giants got Accorsi. Now John Mara is left to his own devices. So far, not so good. But I'm happy that I experienced those Super Bowl wins.

That is correct Kat, but in those days, when Wellington was the boss, our GM, Mr. Young, was lord and master over everything. To the best of my memory, Wellington never meddled into anything Giants business. Young did as he pleased, hired, fired, drafted and if he needed to run it by Wellington, which I doubt, it was just a sign-off. We used to say the BM of the Giants was a job for life unless they wanted to step down. I believe Accorias had similar power, It wasn't until Wellington passed and John took over, that the meddling started. Now our GM is more of a figurehead if he ahs to get John to sign off on everything.

Truly one of the better players on some pretty bad teams.

May he RIP

 I don't think it is even close. The QB is the guy who handles the ball on every single play. The WR may get 10 touches all game. The QB can function with a decent WR and make several others look a lot better than they really are. A great WR can't make an average QB look great.

The QB is the leader of any team, not the WR. PERIOD

If the dc can find the right place for Simmons he could be a true game changer. He is more than a situation type player.

Kiper gave the Giants a B.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/giants-2024-schedule-tied-for-the-sixth-hardest-in-the-nfl/ar-AA1nWBgH?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=0a9ab18af7ef4a53a406c0df64b35954&ei=31

With the new schedule getting ready to come out mid-May, we do know the teams we are going to play, and according to last year's records, we play the 6th hardest schedule in the league. Last year we had the 4th hardest schedule.