Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on Today at 11:59:19 AMTo Mighty's point some think finding a special talent at a position like QB is harder than finding a 'good enough' coach to coach him.

So I think there is some truth in what everyone is asserting here.

From what I have seen, the Giants have struggled just as much to find a proper replacement for Tom Coughlin as they have trying to replace Eli Manning (perhaps even more so)

Quote from: Stringer Bell on Today at 11:42:59 AMThis is one of the biggest blind spots for arm chair GMs. There being a market for someone jn getting a contract and there being a market for someone willing to trade draft picks and pay a guy are 2 completely different things.

Are you suggesting you are coming from the perspective of an actual or former NFL GM? 


A player like Barkley had value for a team in the playoff hunt looking to get an edge by boosting their running game down the home stretch

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on Today at 11:38:19 AMThe best players get paid a lot more than the best coaches, and, unlike coaches, players are bound by a salary cap so it's even harder to pay them than it is coaches.

Could this discrepancy between player and coach pay be because players are more valuable, or is it because the people who run NFL teams and have spent their whole careers and almost their whole lives deeply involved in this sport are all lost and just don't get it?

I was taught price was determined by supply and demand, not by the perceived "value" of the goods or service

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on Today at 11:18:54 AMThere is nothing to resolve if you agree that players are more important than coaches overall. That's all I am saying. If you think coaches are more important than players, or even that the two are equal, then
we can mutually respectfully agree to disagree.

I am afraid I can't agree with your assertion. If I were to put it in simple terms of who is more important, coaches or talent, I would put it at about even. Still, I think to appreciate the situation fully, it's important to appreciate the interaction between coaching and talent. Great coaching will make their talent look better than it is through superior player development and putting players in a position to thrive (as well as optimal motivation), and vice versa for poor coaching.

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1786773298220556667

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on Today at 11:10:47 AMOBJ is a bit of a journeyman these days.

Every season, there seems to be a new bumper crop of WR prospects. That steady stream of young and cheap talent suppresses the market for aging veterans who have lost a step.

https://x.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1786774675705548871

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 10:59:22 AMwhy did both the OC and HC have immense success in KC and Buff

Because both the Chiefs and the Bills have immensely more talented rosters from top to bottom.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on Today at 10:53:09 AMIn my opinion, QBs (and the rest of their offenses) tend to make OCs - not the other way around. Daboll himself is a good example. He had been an OC in numerous places prior to Buffalo and was never considered anything noteworthy until he got Josh Allen. Every other OC job he had before that led to him being fired. After spending a few years with Josh Allen as the OC, he was suddenly the hottest candidate for a head coaching job in the league. How come that never happened after any of his prior OC stints?

Please don't misconstrue the above as a claim on my part that some OCs are not better than others. I am not saying that at all and don't think that. Clearly some are very good, some are very bad, and many are somewhere in between. All I am saying is the guys on the field matter more than the guy with the headset. And the final numerical arbiter of value (compensation) duly reflects that.

If you really want to appreciate the importance of the OC in the grand scheme of things, just compare the 2022 Eagles offense versus the 2023 Eagles offense.  Under one OC in 2022, they were 3rd in both points and yards.  With essentially the same roster but a new OC, that unit was ranked 7th in points and yards under their new OC.

Still, the debate over the relative importance of coaching versus talent has been going on since football was first invented.  So I doubt we will resolve the issue now.

Do you agree with their ranking or assessment?


31) New York Giants
Daniel Jones, rehabbing from the torn ACL that ended his 2023 campaign, may have to compete with free-agent addition Drew Lock to win the Giants' starting QB job. Whoever wins the gig will get to work with No. 6 overall pick Malik Nabers, New York's most explosive wide receiver since Odell Beckham Jr.

The Giants made a concerted effort to improve their offensive line during the offseason. But adding Nabers was somewhat offset by losing RB Saquon Barkley, and it's challenging to see much upside for Big Blue.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-offense-rankings/

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 10:42:32 AMYou answered a question with a question. Again, can explain why Kafka was a hot OC and led the leagues best passing game in KC, but a reason for DJs failures here?  I'd also like to hear more about how a hot OC in Buff and NFL CoY is part of DJs problem.

I think you are overstating things when you claim that Kafka "led the league's best passing game."   Kafka wasn't the OC; he was the quarterback's coach & passing game coordinator.  To make matters worse, Andy Reid, rather than the OC, calls the plays for the Chiefs.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on Today at 10:39:50 AMWaller was supposed to be that 'de-facto' WR1 and that experiment failed miserably (along with the OL).

Yeah, everything was looking good right up until Waller suffered that hamstring injury in the week leading up to opening day.  It was all downhill from there. 

Ric Serritella has a weekly newsletter in which he interviews David Gettleman.  Here is an excerpt of that newsletter



At and near the bottom, Gettleman complains about draft-media grades being listened to by GMs (He seemed very upset with the Athletic's Dane Brugler, who is well respected by NFL people).  Seeing how the only recent owner Gettleman worked with was Mara (and Tisch), perhaps John Mara wasn't impressed by the grades the Giants received for drafting Daniel Jones 6th overall.  When I think about it, I saw a lot of speculation of John Mara loving Daniel Jones (the theory being he was similar to Eli Manning) but I can't recall a smoking gun or actual factual evidence to support that speculation.

https://x.com/clt_ny/status/1786740194638446598


If you would like to subscribe to the newsletter, here is the link.


https://x.com/RicSerritella/status/1786756699333837187

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 10:32:29 AMThis requires further explanation. Are you claiming the HC and OC are part of the problem?  If so, can you explain their successes in KC and Buff?  I also believe the Giants have some talent that's being hindered by the QB. Is it a coincidence that Robinson started to emerge with the backup QB?  Can we also agree that DJ enjoyed playing with a top 3 LT and RB? 

If you believe Kafka didn't have issues, how do you explain Daboll seeking to take away (and he did take away multiple times last season) play-calling duties?

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on Today at 10:19:09 AMI mean when I look at the last 5-7 OL coaches we have had that might be the greatest joke of all time!

Most of them are not even coaching OL anymore in the NFL and many of them had very, very weak resumes to boot. That was a horrific job by this organization finding a good one. Now this Bracillo guy his resume and rep when you listen to a bunch of guys who either know him closely or have played under him are absolutely glowing. Been waiting a long time for them to get this position on the staff adequate addressed.

I would argue the O-line coach is as important as your OC and DC.  First off, they are the only position to coach 5 players on the field (6 in heavy tight-end packages), with the possible exception of a DB coach in a system that plays mostly nickel.  Second, I don't think there is a position in the league where prospects come in less prepared for NFL games than O-linemen.  Finally, with the CBA limits, coaching O-linemen has never been more challenging owing to the lack of time in pads.