Big Blue Huddle

Like it or not, our (not one but TWO) backup QBs played markedly better than the 40 million dollar man. People will say that is because we were missing Andrew Thomas. One person doesn't make a team. The argument would hold some weight if not for the fact TWO backups played much much better and even beat an inter division rival.

I am going to add one thing.  I suspect we should also be looking at 10-yard splits as they will reflect a receiver's suddenness/acceleration, which is as important if not more important than their long speed. 

Take Evan Engram.  He had an impressive 40 time, but he wasn't that sudden and it took him time to reach top speed.  As a result, the defense didn't really struggle to cover him as much as his 40 times would suggest.

It's almost as if route running and a QB that can accurately get the ball in a receivers hands is more important. 

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 09:13:17 AMI didn't say they don't. A backup or any backup should not look significantly better than your 40 million dollar qb regardless of the circumstances and not one but several backup Qbs did this past season.

The part in bold is where we see things differently.  I don't do absolutes like "regardless of circumstances". I always factor in circumstances when I evaluate anything in football.  Evaluating without considering circumstances is akin to taking a quote out of context, in my opinion.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 08:02:23 AMWhy did you ignore the 7th receiving targets versus the 32nd receiving targets?  Do you think that receivers don't improve a QBs production?  If not, why do you think WRs make so much money?

As to your point, 32nd is unlimited bad.  We have clear stats that show the protection was significantly worse in terms of percent of pressure and time to pressure under Jones, and even with the improvements after Jones, they were still last.  Even adding a healthy Andrew Thomas and Pugh off his coach didn't move the Giants off 32nd in pass protection.

So why do NFL teams spend so much money on receivers and offensive linemen if things like pass protection and receiving targets don't make a difference?

I didn't say they don't. A backup or any backup should not look significantly better than your 40 million dollar qb regardless of the circumstances and not one but several backup Qbs did this past season.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 07:52:52 AMThe Giants had that high-risk option with the 3 QBs they passed on in this draft.

Sure, but they weren't ready for reasons that made sense to them.

Thought I remembered this conversation.

https://www.nj.com/giants/2020/06/do-giants-have-fastest-offense-in-the-nfl-with-saquon-barkley-darius-slayton-and-the-rest.html

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 07, 2024, 08:04:10 PMIt is somewhat subjective who the five best receivers are, but I'll take a crack at it.

For "fast" I will use less than 4.45 on the 40. I think that's a fair cutoff for this position.


Is each of the below players fast?

Tyreek Hill (4.29): Yes
Cee Dee Lamb (4.5): No
Amon-Ra St. Brown (4.61): No
Ja'Marr Chase (4.38): Yes
AJ Brown (4.49): No

2 yes, 3 no.

Justin Jefferson 4.43
 Davante Adams 4.56
 Stefon Diggs 4.46
 Cooper Kupp 4.62
 Deebo Samuel 4.48

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 07, 2024, 06:44:45 PMI'm not loving that news if I'm Tommy D.

He lit it up in the CFL.  He's a bit short at 6' 1", but I think Tommy Cutlets has some serious competition for QB 3.  The Giants claimed Rourke on waivers.   The Pats got him by claiming him on waivers (when the Jags waived him), and they beat out the Texans, who also put a claim in on him.  I think there could be something more than just a camp body in him.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 07, 2024, 07:41:01 PMIs there really that big of a difference in the 28th vs the 32nd to you? 

I understand you were trying to make a point that somehow there was a huge difference in the 28th vs 32nd but there isn't, not enough to jump the stats that much. Even if you want to say they have better wrs which they do, Lock still attacked down the field while Jones did not.

Why did you ignore the 7th receiving targets versus the 32nd receiving targets?  Do you think that receivers don't improve a QBs production?  If not, why do you think WRs make so much money?

As to your point, 32nd is unlimited bad.  We have clear stats that show the protection was significantly worse in terms of percent of pressure and time to pressure under Jones, and even with the improvements after Jones, they were still last.  Even adding a healthy Andrew Thomas and Pugh off his coach didn't move the Giants off 32nd in pass protection.

Quote from: Trench on May 07, 2024, 11:26:06 PMShort answer is - no

So why do NFL teams spend so much money on receivers and offensive linemen if things like pass protection and receiving targets don't make a difference?