Big Blue Huddle

Figured to start a new Knicks thread for this offseason plus upcoming season.  So they traded Obi Toppin cor 2 second round picks.  Seems a little light for a guy that I rhink can be a legit starter especially on his new team which plays in transition a lot.  Empties the rotation a bit.  Just hope Randle keeps his play up.

Donnie D pick up is a good one as I like his outside shooting ability plus his D.   

Quote from: Philosophers on July 01, 2023, 09:03:51 PMFigured to start a new Knicks thread for this offseason plus upcoming season.  So they traded Obi Toppin cor 2 second round picks.  Seems a little light for a guy that I rhink can be a legit starter especially on his new team which plays in transition a lot.  Empties the rotation a bit.  Just hope Randle keeps his play up.

Donnie D pick up is a good one as I like his outside shooting ability plus his D.   

I feel exactly as you do. I love the DiVincenzo pickup as we need a three point sharpshooter plus I like the Nova connection to Hart and Brunson. With that said I agree that just two 2s for Obi is a weak return. 2s in the NBA draft are like 5th or 6th rounders in the NFL. Obi never got the minutes with the Knicks, but I remember the final month of the 21/22 season when Randle was out and Obi had a starting role. He lit it up then. I think the Pacers made a great trade here.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 01, 2023, 09:28:20 PMI feel exactly as you do. I love the DiVincenzo pickup as we need a three point sharpshooter plus I like the Nova connection to Hart and Brunson. With that said I agree that just two 2s for Obi is a weak return. 2s in the NBA draft are like 5th or 6th rounders in the NFL. Obi never got the minutes with the Knicks, but I remember the final month of the 21/22 season when Randle was out and Obi had a starting role. He lit it up then. I think the Pacers made a great trade here.

Yup, I like DiVincenzo but feel this trade off hurts.  I like Toppin better than Randle in Playoff basketball.  Regular Season bball is Randle but playoff is Toppin, in my opinion

Rose really screwed the pooch when he drafted Toppin. It made no sense at the time especially considering they were desperately in need of a point guard and Haliburton was still there, and now he corrects that mistake by dumping Toppin for a pair of worthless second round picks. The guy is in over his head.

Dont like the draft picks back but to say he's in over his head seems harsh considering he's built the Knicks (and their whole org) into their best shape in over 20 years.

Quote from: Philosophers on July 02, 2023, 01:01:04 AMDont like the draft picks back but to say he's in over his head seems harsh considering he's built the Knicks (and their whole org) into their best shape in over 20 years.

Most of the heavy lifting was done by the previous regime. He had nothing to do with Randall, Barrett and Robinson. He gets credit for signing Brunson and acquiring Hart but he's also responsible for trading four first round draft picks away just to create enough cap space to make Brunson happen. Then again he wouldn't have had to do that if he had just drafted Haliburton in the first place.

Count me in as one of the those who could not believe that a PG starved team passed on Halliburton.  The Knicks hadn't had a good young PG in like forever and it even took a few years later to get Brunson.  That said, I thought Rose was signed around the time or shortly before the 2020 draft and I'm guessing that it was the basketball people in the front office who were pushing for Toppin.  Maybe I'm wrong.

That said, drafting Toppin was a huge mistake.  Not on the level of Frank Nikitina (or whatever his name is) or even worse, Kevin Knox but a bad pick.  He's basically a 2 trick pony, driving uncontested to the hoop and shooting wide open 3's.  That's not enough and he doesn't play defense.  I don't think he has too much value and it's almost now get what you can and that looks like 2 2's.

Quote from: madbadger on July 02, 2023, 02:16:51 AMMost of the heavy lifting was done by the previous regime. He had nothing to do with Randall, Barrett and Robinson. He gets credit for signing Brunson and acquiring Hart but he's also responsible for trading four first round draft picks away just to create enough cap space to make Brunson happen. Then again he wouldn't have had to do that if he had just drafted Haliburton in the first place.

He's drafted some nice young players in Grimes, McBride, etc.  Toppin was a fine pick but nobody expected Randle's career to have a huge resurgence that put Toppin in the bench.

He signed Thibs as coach who has done a nice job. 

He has amassed a lot of draft picks going forward.

Knicks have more flexibility than they ever have.

The previous regime drafted RJ at pick 3.  That tells you how bad they were to pick at 3.


Look at all the draft picks

I like Leon Rose. I think he has shown a nice combination of restraint and tactical sharpness. There were people in this thread who were critical of the Jalen Brunson signing at the time, calling it an overpay, but in fact it was a superb signing. The Hart pickup was excellent. And I thought he showed commendable restraint in not going all-in on Donovan Mitchell, who is a great offensive talent but not a guy who is going to win you a championship (see the Cavs first round exit courtesy of us). Past regimes would have given Danny Ainge whatever he wanted to get that deal done (see the Mello trade).

The Knicks were an absolute five car pile-up when Rose was handed the team, and that had been true for nearly two decades. This was not an overnight fix. I will speak for myself, but I am pretty happy with the state of the team right now given where it was a few years ago. They're young, they're already pretty respectable, and they have a ton of assets. I like the direction the franchise is headed in.

I like the fact that the Knicks are staying the course, developing young talent, and not getting fooled into thinking a superstar free agent is the final piece of the puzzle. Signing Donte DiVincenzo is not a "huge" signing, but he's a young guy with a couple of specific traits (tough defensive player who will nail threes if left alone)

It gives us a bit of a glut with a foursome of undersized wings (IQ, Grimes, Hart, and now Divincenzo) and now we need a backup PF, which I suspect will happen in the near future with a trade or FA signing. Randle is an All-Star PF, but he goes down for spells with injuries, and we don't have a reliable backup to him. That is my only concern

I'm just happy they aren't chasing big names that cost big money and are usually past their prime. We've got a solid group of players 25 and younger with their best days ahead of them. Let them develop, and let them all rise to the top of their game together in the next couple of years. That plan might be "low-key", but it's the "high road", and smartest thing they can do IMO...which is a long time coming

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 02, 2023, 11:52:49 AMI like Leon Rose. I think he has shown a nice combination of restraint and tactical sharpness. There were people in this thread who were critical of the Jalen Brunson signing at the time, calling it an overpay, but in fact it was a superb signing. The Hart pickup was excellent. And I thought he showed commendable restraint in not going all-in on Donovan Mitchell, who is a great offensive talent but not a guy who is going to win you a championship (see the Cavs first round exit courtesy of us). Past regimes would have given Danny Ainge whatever he wanted to get that deal done (see the Mello trade).

The Knicks were an absolute five car pile-up when Rose was handed the team, and that had been true for nearly two decades. This was not an overnight fix. I will speak for myself, but I am pretty happy with the state of the team right now given where it was a few years ago. They're young, they're already pretty respectable, and they have a ton of assets. I like the direction the franchise is headed in.

100% agree and a nice summary

Quote from: Philosophers on July 02, 2023, 11:48:06 AMHe's drafted some nice young players in Grimes, McBride, etc.  Toppin was a fine pick but nobody expected Randle's career to have a huge resurgence that put Toppin in the bench.

He signed Thibs as coach who has done a nice job. 

He has amassed a lot of draft picks going forward.

Knicks have more flexibility than they ever have.

The previous regime drafted RJ at pick 3.  That tells you how bad they were to pick at 3.


Look at all the draft picks

That 3rd pick might have been the best pick of the draft considering #1 pick Zion has been a bit of a bust, weight issues, injuries and lots of lost playing time, and now this issue with him and hookers. The #2 pick, Morant thinks he's Billy the Kid, carrying guns around, flashing them in crowds and getting suspended to go along with some obvious bad character flaws. At least RJ cares enough to stay in shape, is a gym rat, and isn't an embarrassment off the court. And he's only 23 years old with 4 seasons of NBA experience under his belt. His best is yet to come (knock on wood! LOL)

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on July 02, 2023, 05:54:15 PMThat 3rd pick might have been the best pick of the draft considering #1 pick Zion has been a bit of a bust, weight issues, injuries and lots of lost playing time, and now this issue with him and hookers. The #2 pick, Morant thinks he's Billy the Kid, carrying guns around, flashing them in crowds and getting suspended to go along with some obvious bad character flaws. At least RJ cares enough to stay in shape, is a gym rat, and isn't an embarrassment off the court. And he's only 23 years old with 4 seasons of NBA experience under his belt. His best is yet to come (knock on wood! LOL)

I think RJ is at his ceiling.  Good player but not an All Star and terribly streaky as a scorer.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on July 02, 2023, 05:54:15 PMThat 3rd pick might have been the best pick of the draft considering #1 pick Zion has been a bit of a bust, weight issues, injuries and lots of lost playing time, and now this issue with him and hookers. The #2 pick, Morant thinks he's Billy the Kid, carrying guns around, flashing them in crowds and getting suspended to go along with some obvious bad character flaws. At least RJ cares enough to stay in shape, is a gym rat, and isn't an embarrassment off the court. And he's only 23 years old with 4 seasons of NBA experience under his belt. His best is yet to come (knock on wood! LOL)

While I have routinely been openly critical of RJ Barrett here and am hardly his biggest fan, I have to agree. While Morant is clearly a much better player, he seems incapable of learning from his mistakes and could be headed down a pretty bad path. Zion is a major bust due to his durability and effort issues (despite having talent). The Knicks, at the moment at least, appear to have the only one of the three who has any sort of head on his shoulders.

He's got $68 million tied up in shooting guards alone and no none of them are considered to be good shooters and we don't have a real small forward on the roster. I think things were so bad for so long that even a modicum of success blinds some of us to the awful construction of this roster. Did I mention our backup point guard really is nothing more than an undersized 2 guard? 

Quote from: madbadger on July 02, 2023, 08:50:15 PMHe's got $68 million tied up in shooting guards alone and no none of them are considered to be good shooters and we don't have a real small forward on the roster. I think things were so bad for so long that even a modicum of success blinds some of us to the awful construction of this roster. Did I mention our backup point guard really is nothing more than an undersized 2 guard? 

That modicum of success follows what 20 years of subpar play?  I'll take it.  You are right the roster is not perfect.  But, it continues to evolve. 

Quote from: Philosophers on July 02, 2023, 11:53:54 PMThat modicum of success follows what 20 years of subpar play?  I'll take it.  You are right the roster is not perfect.  But, it continues to evolve. 

Not really. No cap space. A couple ugly contracts of Rose's doing and two years in a row we haven't had a first round pick because we needed to free up space to take Brunson.

I'll take back everything I've said about Rose if he can con someone to taking Randal and Fournier off his hands. Until that happens the ability to improve this roster is non existent. We're in the donut hole. Not good enough to win it all and attract top free agents and not bad enough to improve in the draft.

Quote from: madbadger on July 03, 2023, 12:24:16 AMNot really. No cap space. A couple ugly contracts of Rose's doing and two years in a row we haven't had a first round pick because we needed to free up space to take Brunson.

I'll take back everything I've said about Rose if he can con someone to taking Randal and Fournier off his hands. Until that happens the ability to improve this roster is non existent. We're in the donut hole. Not good enough to win it all and attract top free agents and not bad enough to improve in the draft.

The Knicks don't have the cap space to bring in a big time free agent in 2023, but I would respectfully disagree that they're not in a pretty good position overall. First off, despite not having a first rounder this year, they have excellent draft capital overall. 10 first rounders in the next 7 years will give them plenty of flexibility moving forward.

Secondly the team is young. I think it's reasonable to expect players like Quickley, Grimes, Sims, McBride, and Barrett to get better collectively. So even just running it back this year can arguably yield even better results, as nobody on the team is aging out. Who is even 30 on this team that matters?

Third, how is the roster construction that bad? I mean for years the issue was we didn't have a point guard, which I harped on all the time. When Brunson was signed, certain individuals here (no need to call people out but I do remember pretty clearly) seemed down on it as they thought he was just a "good" player for whom the Knicks overpaid. I think it's fair to say that the Knicks did not just do well but in fact did great in that transaction. As for having no small forwards, I'd say Barrett and Hart fit that bill. Both are players who have an inside/outside game and get rebounds. If you want to refuse to call them small forwards and insist they're shooting guards, go ahead, but they both seem more than capable in the 3 role.

The Knicks are far from perfect and they are definitely not a title contender in any way, but they're young and have a ton of picks. Yes the cap situation for this year is very limited, but that won't be the case in future years, and they're young enough that they can have a macro plan in that sense. It can't be that it's all gloom and doom for this team unless they're literally a top 2 or 3 NBA team. That was never going to happen overnight with this franchise. When during the last 20-plus years have you ever felt better about the overall direction of the franchise? That's a pretty long time, no?

So who knows how true it is, but the rumor going around today is that the Knicks and Sixers are considering a trade that would involve the Knicks moving Randle, Barrett, Mitchell Robinson plus either two or three first rounders in exchange for Embiid.

Thoughts?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 24, 2023, 12:26:42 PMSo who knows how true it is, but the rumor going around today is that the Knicks and Sixers are considering a trade that would involve the Knicks moving Randle, Barrett, Mitchell Robinson plus either two or three first rounders in exchange for Embiid.

Thoughts?

I like Joel Embiid a lot but three first rounders plus three starters is too rich in my opinion.

Embiid is also 29.  It's not like he's 24.

Quote from: Philosophers on October 24, 2023, 12:42:34 PMI like Joel Embiid a lot but three first rounders plus three starters is too rich in my opinion.

Embiid is also 29.  It's not like he's 24.

I'm with you. The other big issue I have is Embiid never plays more than 65 games a year. He has never once played a 70 game season and he has been around for a while. His usual range is 52-67 games.

Embiid is sick though. Clear top 3 player in the league. If the move is to try to win in the next couple years, his age doesn't bother me. 29 isn't young but these guys are good until their mid 30s, some later.

Bottom line you have to ask yourself if the Knicks are championship material after they do that trade. I think the answer is no, myself. They'd have Brunson and Embiid, which is a very good 1-2 punch, but there wouldn't be much else. I guess they could potentially attract another top player, but I'm not sure how that would work cap-wise.

Apparently the other players they're mulling over are Karl-Anthony Towns and Donovan Mitchell.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 24, 2023, 01:09:55 PMI'm with you. The other big issue I have is Embiid never plays more than 65 games a year. He has never once played a 70 game season and he has been around for a while. His usual range is 52-67 games.

Embiid is sick though. Clear top 3 player in the league. If the move is to try to win in the next couple years, his age doesn't bother me. 29 isn't young but these guys are good until their mid 30s, some later.

Bottom line you have to ask yourself if the Knicks are championship material after they do that trade. I think the answer is no, myself. They'd have Brunson and Embiid, which is a very good 1-2 punch, but there wouldn't be much else. I guess they could potentially attract another top player, but I'm not sure how that would work cap-wise.

Apparently the other players they're mulling over are Karl-Anthony Towns and Donovan Mitchell.

I think Towns has a lot of mileage on him.  Donovan Mitchell proved last year that he is a very good player but like others here have posted, he's a bit redundant with Brunson and both are undersized for a backcourt.

The problem with the Knicks is that they can't get lucky and draft a player who becomes a legit star.  They certainly have had enough picks in top 10.  They seem snake bitten in that regard.

Quote from: Philosophers on October 24, 2023, 04:10:57 PMI think Towns has a lot of mileage on him.  Donovan Mitchell proved last year that he is a very good player but like others here have posted, he's a bit redundant with Brunson and both are undersized for a backcourt.

The problem with the Knicks is that they can't get lucky and draft a player who becomes a legit star.  They certainly have had enough picks in top 10.  They seem snake bitten in that regard.

Towns is two or three years younger than Embiid, although it seems like he has missed his share of games in recent years, so I get your point.

I agree about Donovan Mitchell. He's clearly a talented scorer but probably less of a fit and less multi-dimensional.

It goes without saying that the Knicks should not feel compelled to do something here. Right now, they may not quite be championship material, but they're a good 45-50 win team that should be top five in the East and has already shown they're capable of winning at least one playoff series. Obviously, we all would like to see them do better than that, but this is now longer some inept franchise. They gave fans plenty of reasons to cheer and to be engaged into the early summer. They've lost nobody and they added a deadly three point specialist, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be at least as good as last year (47 wins). The point being, they don't need to jump at the first opportunity. They can wait if they prefer, and they'll still have a very solid product on the floor.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 24, 2023, 06:02:59 PMTowns is two or three years younger than Embiid, although it seems like he has missed his share of games in recent years, so I get your point.

I agree about Donovan Mitchell. He's clearly a talented scorer but probably less of a fit and less multi-dimensional.

It goes without saying that the Knicks should not feel compelled to do something here. Right now, they may not quite be championship material, but they're a good 45-50 win team that should be top five in the East and has already shown they're capable of winning at least one playoff series. Obviously, we all would like to see them do better than that, but this is now longer some inept franchise. They gave fans plenty of reasons to cheer and to be engaged into the early summer. They've lost nobody and they added a deadly three point specialist, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be at least as good as last year (47 wins). The point being, they don't need to jump at the first opportunity. They can wait if they prefer, and they'll still have a very solid product on the floor.

You raised a great point about Embiid's number of missing games each year.  That's a very serious concern.  Durability is important especially for a guy approaching 30.

What I don't like about this trade is that it goes against everything Leon Rose has done to date which is get the team younger, retain draft picks (and in fact accumulate them) and develop from within.  To clear out a lot of your starting roster plus give the 3 draft picks is a no go for me.  I'd be ok if they traded the three and retained the draft picks.

The Knicks will never win a championship with Randle on the team. Sorry, but he's very overrated. He doesn't do the little things like blocking out, he makes poor decisions most of the time and he's a poor finisher. Trade him for Dave Debusscher

Can't beat good teams when you shoot 53.8% from the line. That's just not going to cut. That was the story of this loss.

Julius Randle: 5-20 last night including 1-9 from three.

On the season so far he's shooting 27.1% from the field. 22.5% from three.

This guy is absolutely killing us and is the primary reason we're 2-4 right now to start the season out.

I wish they had done this trade for Embiid. None of the guys involved were guys who really add a huge amount. Mitchell Robinson is my favorite of them but if you're getting Embiid then losing him isn't that big of a deal. Plus Hartenstein is solid anyway.

Frustrating to watch. I know they'll get better but Randle is just painful to watch. Brick after brick after brick.

https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1540144869443866624?s=61&t=8pY1fIic9mTDjk4JVJPt9w

To get out from under another really stupid contract Rose offered, the Knicks had to trade the rights to Jalen Duran who is quickly turning into everything we hoped Robinson would be. Thankfully Rose made the astute move of locking up a guy who can't make it through a season without missing significant playing time due to injury.

Haven't posted here in a couple weeks.

I'm feeling reasonably good about where the Knicks are right now. Their record isn't fantastic, but it's not terrible either, particularly considering they've already played the Celts twice and the Bucks once. We know they're not better than those teams, and they're 6-2 in their other games besides those three.

They did start looking pretty bad with their shooting in the first three or four games, but that has gotten a lot better recently. They also have the third best point differential in the East, which is pretty solid.

I watched some of the game last night and was generally liking what I saw. The Hawks tend to always play us tough, and I just thought it was a good road win for us, especially considering we have been without Barrett.

Overall I think we all know what the Knicks are. They're a solid, respectable, competitive team that should be good for something between 45 and 50 wins and should be able to have a solid shot of winning at least one playoff series. Meanwhile they have plenty of assets and are not particularly old, so they can certainly make a move to get a top player if and when they think the time is right.

Can they be better than last year with what they have right now? Probably not much better, although one thing I really thought they were missing last year was a reliable three point man, and now they have that with DiVincenzo. So let's see.

Overall not an amazing start as they're only 6-5, but when I look at everything I feel pretty good about where they are right now.

The Knicks are not championship contenders but they play hard and are fun to watch. I can't stand watching the Giants and Yankees these days but I try to never miss a Knicks game. Thank you to the Knicks organization for providing a quality product to enjoy this winter. I just wish game tickets were not so expensive.

Quote from: umassgrad on November 17, 2023, 11:03:09 AMThe Knicks are not championship contenders but they play hard and are fun to watch. I can't stand watching the Giants and Yankees these days but I try to never miss a Knicks game. Thank you to the Knicks organization for providing a quality product to enjoy this winter. I just wish game tickets were not so expensive.

Same here across the board, including the point about the tickets.

The Knicks did great with the Jalen Brunson acquisition. At the time, there were people who thought it was an overpay. In reality, he is a bargain, if anything. Definitely one of the best free agent pickups in the history of the franchise.

Good point about the Giants. I'm also a Rangers fan, and at the moment they're doing well (albeit they tend to disappoint in the postseason). So it's just nice to have teams in my fan arsenal (like the Knicks and Rangers) who are at least respectable and have a good chance of winning most nights.

Anyone catch any of the Knicks game last night? Man, was that wild. They were up by one at halftime, and then they came out in the third quarter and proceeded to get absolutely mauled. At one point the third quarter scoreboard was 19-0 Heat. The Knicks then stabilized things a bit and got to where they were trading baskets, but they were still down 9 to 11 points late in the game. And then they managed to win. As you can imagine, the Garden was going nuts.

While I fully get that the Knicks are not championship caliber, I do like this team a lot. Randle is a guy I wish they had found a way to trade one of these years (I understand that's not easy with the contract he has), but Barrett, Quickley, and obviously Brunson were terrific last night, and guys like Hart, Hartenstein, and (at times) Grimes and DiVencenzo are all very nice role players.

If you could somehow add a top talent into this core group you'd have a serious contender.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 25, 2023, 07:45:35 AMAnyone catch any of the Knicks game last night? Man, was that wild. They were up by one at halftime, and then they came out in the third quarter and proceeded to get absolutely mauled. At one point the third quarter scoreboard was 19-0 Heat. The Knicks then stabilized things a bit and got to where they were trading baskets, but they were still down 9 to 11 points late in the game. And then they managed to win. As you can imagine, the Garden was going nuts.

While I fully get that the Knicks are not championship caliber, I do like this team a lot. Randle is a guy I wish they had found a way to trade one of these years (I understand that's not easy with the contract he has), but Barrett, Quickley, and obviously Brunson were terrific last night, and guys like Hart, Hartenstein, and (at times) Grimes and DiVencenzo are all very nice role players.

If you could somehow add a top talent into this core group you'd have a serious contender.

Yup, great comeback.  They have all those draft picks to use to acquire a superstar but they have had this ammo for 2 years now and nothing yet.  Hopefully the prudence pays off and we get a KAT or Jaren Jackson, Jr.

Quote from: Puffy on November 25, 2023, 10:10:18 AMYup, great comeback.  They have all those draft picks to use to acquire a superstar but they have had this ammo for 2 years now and nothing yet.  Hopefully the prudence pays off and we get a KAT or Jaren Jackson, Jr.

I like that they're not just jumping at the first opportunity. They're biding their time, and while they do they're developing their own young talent and putting a pretty damn good product on the floor. I like what Leon Rose is doing. Past GMs would have knee-jerk signed or traded for the wrong guy by now.

It is not worth making a trade unless you are trading for a top 5 player. KAT is a lateral move. So is Jaren Jackson Jr. Anthony Edwards would make sense, but he won't be available.

Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 25, 2023, 02:01:55 PMIt is not worth making a trade unless you are trading for a top 5 player. KAT is a lateral move. So is Jaren Jackson Jr. Anthony Edwards would make sense, but he won't be available.

The guy I'd love to see them trade for is SGA. There were rumors of that last year, but I haven't seen anything new recently. OKC wasn't very good last year but they're off to an 11-4 start this year. Another mediocre season from them and I could see them wanting to start over.

SGA is a stud though. I'd give up a lot for him.

Yeah. SGA isn't going to be available for a while. They are a really good team now.

Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 25, 2023, 03:02:56 PMYeah. SGA isn't going to be available for a while. They are a really good team now.

I guess. They were below .500 last year and started this year 5-4 and then have suddenly won six straight. I'm not sure if they're "really good" or just good and "really hot" right now.

Either way, you're right - there is no noise around SGA right now.

They are a young team hitting their stride. They really came on at the end of the year last season. With all their young talent, they are the next ascending team. SGA is years away from moving on.

What do we think of this Knicks team this year? Feels like they're a decent but far from great team that wins the games it's supposed to win but just about never is even competitive with, let alone beats, the really good teams in the league. I understand they did just beat the Bucks at MSG, but that was the one time. Pretty much all their other games this year against legit teams have been losses, and many blowouts.

A few comments:

(1) This team routinely gives up huge point totals like 140-145. It mainly happens on the road, but this includes before the Robinson injury, so it can't be blamed on that. How can a Thibodeau-coached team be that bad on D in so many games? The biggest issue continues to be defending the three.

(2) DiVencenzo is shooting the lights out (44.8% from 3). He's been a solid add to this point, as that was a need.

(3) What exactly is the outlook for this team? Seems we are sort of plateauing at this solid-but-not-great level of a little over .500, 5 seed type of team that is no threat to go past the second round. It's been like this for a few years now. While that's a nice upgrade from most of the previous 15-20 years, I wouldn't exactly call it exciting. Moreover, the younger guys on this team have been on the team for a while now and kind of are what they are at this point. In short, I'm not sure what's going to make this team better at this point without actual upgrades on the roster. We're too good to be getting top 5 or even top 10 picks, but not good enough to get out of this middle of the road purgatory we're in and actually contend for a title. What is the medium to longer term plan with this team exactly?

Curious to hear any thoughts on the above and any general comments from NYK fans, as this thread has been inactive for a while now and we're well into the season at this point.

I feel the Knicks are improved but pretty much the same team as last year.  They need another piece or they're the same stagnant team.  They will make the playoffs and hopefully win a round which I feel is their ceiling.

Quote from: Messiah717 on December 29, 2023, 04:08:08 PMI feel the Knicks are improved but pretty much the same team as last year.  They need another piece or they're the same stagnant team.  They will make the playoffs and hopefully win a round which I feel is their ceiling.

It seems to me that you haven't been following the team.  Brunson was good last year in his 1st season but he has stepped up his game to a higher level, maybe a much higher level.  And, whether it's Brunson's doing as an elite point guard (when can that be said about a PG here), Randle's game is way better now than it was last year.  And, they have one of the better benches in the league with Quickley and Hart.  They do need help and it's not likely the big star is coming this year but if they could add a wing who could score and maybe a decent big man, this club will be ascending. Those can be obtained.  They're not as good as they Celtics but they could play with everyone else in the conference.

Quote from: nb587 on December 29, 2023, 07:05:04 PMIt seems to me that you haven't been following the team.  Brunson was good last year in his 1st season but he has stepped up his game to a higher level, maybe a much higher level.  And, whether it's Brunson's doing as an elite point guard (when can that be said about a PG here), Randle's game is way better now than it was last year.  And, they have one of the better benches in the league with Quickley and Hart.  They do need help and it's not likely the big star is coming this year but if they could add a wing who could score and maybe a decent big man, this club will be ascending. Those can be obtained.  They're not as good as they Celtics but they could play with everyone else in the conference.

And yet they consistently get beaten up by everyone half-decent in the league except the one Christmas Day home game against the Bucks.

I don't want to be overly negative, because they're definitely solid, but I wouldn't say there is any obvious evidence they're materially better than last year. Last year they had a higher point differential and a better winning percentage than this year's team has had to this point. I'm not saying they're worse, but I wouldn't say they're better either. I feel like they're plateauing at this level (as suggested in my original post yesterday).

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 29, 2023, 08:11:30 PMAnd yet they consistently get beaten up by everyone half-decent in the league except the one Christmas Day home game against the Bucks.

I don't want to be overly negative, because they're definitely solid, but I wouldn't say there is any obvious evidence they're materially better than last year. Last year they had a higher point differential and a better winning percentage than this year's team has had to this point. I'm not saying they're worse, but I wouldn't say they're better either. I feel like they're plateauing at this level (as suggested in my original post yesterday).

How about this Dave?  Squeezing everything they can get out of this good but limited roster?

😂

Both Brunson and Randle are playing at all star levels; neither of them did last year.  If the point made was that they're not as good as the elite teams, I wouldn't argue much.  But, the point that they're not any better last year is off in my opinion.  The injury to Robinson hurts alot and I get your point about the team record. But, I think they have improved and are a better team going forward.  I should add that I expect them to make another move this year before the trade deadline.  Another Hart level player who can play the wing would help

Quote from: Philosophers on December 30, 2023, 11:39:28 AMHow about this Dave?  Squeezing everything they can get out of this good but limited roster?

😂

That's all they can do for now.

Maybe the organization is content with the status quo. The Knicks do have the third highest revenue of any NBA franchise and the second highest valuation (per Forbes). Maybe there is a "don't fix what isn't broken" attitude inside the organization, even though it is abundantly clear this group, as presently constructed, will never come close to sniffing a title.

Quote from: nb587 on December 30, 2023, 11:41:43 AMBoth Brunson and Randle are playing at all star levels; neither of them did last year.  If the point made was that they're not as good as the elite teams, I wouldn't argue much.  But, the point that they're not any better last year is off in my opinion.  The injury to Robinson hurts alot and I get your point about the team record. But, I think they have improved and are a better team going forward.  I should add that I expect them to make another move this year before the trade deadline.  Another Hart level player who can play the wing would help

I definitely think the Robinson injury is a rough one and matters, but if we are being brutally honest with ourselves, the situation was not really different before he got hurt.

They haven't had the easiest schedule to this point - I will grant you that. Maybe things will look better several weeks from now. However as you note, Robinson won't be back anytime soon, and that has left a big hole.

Wow, speak of the devil. I hadn't posted in this thread in over a month - I post yesterday, and look what happens today.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1741146251532603871

What do you think about this trade?

Quote from: Philosophers on December 30, 2023, 01:00:59 PMWhat do you think about this trade?

I have mixed feelings as a first reaction.

Postives:

-I have never been a fan of Barrett. He is capable of having big games and sometimes does, but he is a pretty flawed player, and his contract is terrible and he's not a FA until 2027. Getting him off the books to me is a win.

-OG is a great defensive big man, so he fills the hole left by Robinson, who looks like he's going to miss a lot of time, maybe even the rest of the season.

-OG brings a lot more offense to the table, including being a very good three point shooter.

-Getting an expiring contract is gold in the NBA. The Knicks can easily move this guy for picks or younger talent at the deadline if they want.


Negatives:

-I don't love losing Quickley, as he is a pretty explosive scorer, and now the Knicks really have zero in the backcourt outside of Brunson.

-OG is a surprisingly ineffective rebounder for a man his size.

-Roster fit once Robinson is healthy: How do you have Robinson, OG, and Randle on the floor at the same time? Their respective roles seem to overlap too much.


Overall I think getting rid of Barrett is a positive, and we definitely had a real issue with losing Robinson for this long, and that is now resolved, but I'm not sure we got enough of a return. Especially if we have to give up any sort of relevant draft capital on top of this.

Still, this may be an unfinished project. They may look to move this guy or someone else later.

Unless there's something else in the works this is an awful trade. 

Quote from: Messiah717 on December 30, 2023, 01:17:18 PMUnless there's something else in the works this is an awful trade. 

Why do you feel that way? I actually am starting to warm up to it a little.

Bill Simmons (who I consider pretty sharp with NBA stuff) said it's a good trade for both sides.

I made a mistake before. I saw 7'2", and assumed that was his height. My bad. It's his wingspan. He's only 6'7".

So the point about rebounds and the point about getting him to fit in roster-wise with Randle and Robinson (when healthy) was not valid. This guy is an inside-out player who is a very good defender and good scorer who can shoot threes. He's a clear upgrade to Barrett (who played no defense and was an inefficient and erratic player).

Looks like the Knicks will likely make another move to acquire backcourt help to replace Quickley.

From The Athletic:


How the deal helps New York

The Knicks have long been on the prowl for a big wing — and not just any big wing. They've pursued Anunoby since before last season's trade deadline, offering multiple first-round picks to Toronto for him, sources told The Athletic at the time. The Raptors, however, were not entertaining offers for him as seriously then as they did now.

The 6-foot-7 Anunoby is in the midst of another superb defensive season after sliding into All-Defense a season ago. He gives New York more 3-point shooting in its starting lineup, too, considering he's a more reliable threat than Barrett is from deep.

He will slot into the first unit that has included Jalen Brunson, Donte DiVincenzo, Julius Randle and Isaiah Hartenstein, who replaced the injured Mitchell Robinson.
Achiuwa, meanwhile, will presumably absorb the backup center minutes, which have gone to Taj Gibson since Robinson's ankle surgery. Jericho Sims, another center, is recovering from an ankle sprain, as well.

Flynn has a chance to earn backup point guard minutes with Quickley heading to Toronto.

Anunoby has become even more of a Knicksian target of late, as well. Last season, he switched representation from Klutch Sports to CAA, where current Knicks president Leon Rose once ran the basketball division. New York has gone after CAA clients ever since Rose and his right hand, William Wesley, took over the front office, signing Jalen Brunson, drafting Obi Toppin, trading for Josh Hart, extending Randle and making other CAA-related moves.

One of Anunoby's reps at CAA is Sam Rose, Leon Rose's son. Sam also represents Brunson, Toppin and Toppin's brother, Jacob, who is on a two-way contract with New York. — Fred Katz, Knicks staff writer

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 30, 2023, 02:05:48 PMOne of Anunoby's reps at CAA is Sam Rose, Leon Rose's son. Sam also represents Brunson, Toppin and Toppin's brother, Jacob, who is on a two-way contract with New York. — Fred Katz, Knicks staff writer

I don't know what to make of this trade but the part about acquiring CAA represented players, especially those represented by the team President's son is concerning, as it's rife for all sorts of abuse that benefit the Rose family at the expense of the Knicks.

I would have been fine trading Barrett straight up for him but throwing Quickley and draft considerations make this feel like the moves that drove the Knicks into the desert 20 years ago. IMHO Quickly is one of the better 6th man in the league. Time will tell. So far I'm not really impressed with Rose.

Quote from: madbadger on December 30, 2023, 02:40:01 PMI don't know what to make of this trade but the part about acquiring CAA represented players, especially those represented by the team President's son is concerning, as it's rife for all sorts of abuse that benefit the Rose family at the expense of the Knicks.

I would have been fine trading Barrett straight up for him but throwing Quickley and draft considerations make this feel like the moves that drove the Knicks into the desert 20 years ago. IMHO Quickly is one of the better 6th man in the league. Time will tell. So far I'm not really impressed with Rose.

Pretty much my point.  Gave up a lot for one guy who frankly isn't turning the Knicks into that much better of a team if at all.  It also seems like more of a move to make space for next year.  More of the same wheels turning in mud. 

I'm going to reserve my opinion as I believe there's another trade being worked on before the deadline. Depending on what that looks like, I'll have an opinion on the roster overall.


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The stuff about Rose's son doesn't bother me that much. That relationship helped pave the way to get Brunson. While I know some here weren't huge fans of that deal at the time and thought the Knicks were overpaying, I think it's fair to say now that it has worked out extremely well. The guy is potentially looking at all NBA honors this year, and he is the 16th highest paid point guard. I think the Knicks killed it on that acquisition. The guy is outstanding for the price.

No way in hell Toronto would have ever traded Anunoby for Barrett straight up. The two players aren't comparable plus Barrett has a brutal contract situation. Nobody in their right mind would ever do that.

I don't love losing Quickley either but he and the Knicks were very far apart in contract discussions, and for the Knicks to justify giving him what he wants they would need to get him a lot more minutes, which wasn't really possible with Brunson here. The writing was on the wall that he was going to leave. I like Quick, but if I'm deciding between him and Brunson I know which way I'm going every day of the week.

Like Andrew I want to see how the roster looks after the deadline before I do a final evaluation on this. I don't think this is some terrible deal for the Knicks though.

Regarding Rose, people can think what they want, but the Knicks have been light years better under his stewardship than they have since the 90s. And they have plenty of assets. I get that they're not championship caliber yet, but we were the laughingstock of the NBA for basically 20 years before this guy came. He has shown discipline (refusing to give in to Danny Ainge's demands for Donovan Mitchell) and aggressiveness (going hard after Brunson which was a great move). He has shown patience and has not made many mistakes to this point. I think he's doing a pretty solid job. We'll see how things shake out with this trade and any follow-up trades.

Athletic grade for the Knicks:


Knicks receive OG Anunoby, Precious Achiuwa, Malachi Flynn

There is some risk involved for the Knicks here as they gave up a significant amount for Anunoby. Barrett had a hot shooting start to the season and then came crashing back to earth in December with a putrid shooting month. I'm still a believer in his game and think a change of scenery can do him some good. It was tough for him to get a scoring rhythm with Julius Randle jab-stepping possessions into late-clock situations. He can be more of a playmaker in a different place, but we also need to see consistency in his shot for any of that to work out.

Also, Quickley is one of the best bench players in the league, and he's definitely capable of being a starting point guard for a good team. With the signing of Donte DiVincenzo this summer, it made it easier to send out Quickley and not deal with his restricted free agency this summer. Getting Malachi Flynn to throw into the guard rotation is nice insurance, and Precious Achiuwa is a much needed big body with the Mitchell Robinson injury. Achiuwa can do some things with the ball, but he's a little undersized for being a primary big.

Anunoby will likely be a free agent this summer. He has a player option for next season around $19 million, and he can make a lot more than that annually by hitting the unrestricted free-agent market. The Knicks probably wouldn't make this trade giving up Quickley without feeling pretty confident they can re-sign Anunoby this summer (Anunoby's agent is the son of Knicks president Leon Rose, so there should be confidence.) Anunoby has the potential to fit in better than Barrett did, if he's willing to slide into the hierarchy of Knicks possessions behind Jalen Brunson and Randle.

Anunoby is a great finisher around the rim and inside of 10 feet. He can attack closeouts, and you have to respect his outside shooting. He's a career 37.5 percent shooter from deep, and he's right in line with that percentage this season (37.4). He's usually a 40 percent shooter on catch-and-shoot 3-pointers, so having him play off of Randle and Brunson on offense should lead to great opportunities for him when the ball swings.

The reason you get him, though, is his defense. He's one of the most elite perimeter defenders in the NBA. He can defend one through four on the court and make life miserable for his matchup. He's great at navigating screens, and the Knicks really need a stopper on the perimeter to throw at opponents at the end of games. Anunoby is quick enough to guard smaller guards, and strong enough to handle big wings and forwards. The Knicks add a more reliable shooter and an All-Defense level player. They just have to make sure they re-sign him this summer, assuming he doesn't exercise that player option.

Grade: B+ (higher if they re-sign him)

https://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1741182379077546303

Quote from: madbadger on December 30, 2023, 02:40:01 PMI don't know what to make of this trade but the part about acquiring CAA represented players, especially those represented by the team President's son is concerning, as it's rife for all sorts of abuse that benefit the Rose family at the expense of the Knicks.

I would have been fine trading Barrett straight up for him but throwing Quickley and draft considerations make this feel like the moves that drove the Knicks into the desert 20 years ago. IMHO Quickly is one of the better 6th man in the league. Time will tell. So far I'm not really impressed with Rose.

Yes.  The Quickley inclusion bothers me.

I've had some time to grasp the results of this trade. At first I though, "oh no, they're back to reaching..." I liked both players we lost, but I've had time to think it over

My thoughts:

1) Anunoby is a big upgrade from Barrett (both offensively and especially defensively)...even though, I really liked Barrett. IMO, Barrett is a little too "soft", but a damn good basketball player. Unfortunately, "soft" doesn't cut it in the NBA. If this was a straight-up trade for Barrett, it would be a coup!

2) Hate losing Quick, but truth is, we have a glut of guards that isn't good for the overall strength of the team. After the trade, they signed Miles McBride to a 13M, 3-year contract. The "Deuce" will get more playing time now and a chance to hone his skills. I suspect DiVincenzo will see more time at PG as well

3) They also hold the rights to PG Rokas Jokubaitis (drafted in the 2nd round ahead of McBride and Sims in the same draft), who just turned 23 years old and has close to 6 years of international experience under his belt playing professional ball around the globe. He has been dying to get to NY and showcase his skill set. Rose might be planning on bringing him over to see what he can do on the big stage, which is something he has said he wants to do for the last couple of years

4) Anunoby is 26 years old and most likely, will play at his peak abilities for the next 5-6 years when athletes tend to make their mark in history

5) This should take some pressure off Randle, and hopefully loosen him up a bit as defenses have to worry about the other side of the court more than they have in the past. Other teams strategize their defensive plan to "take Randle and Brunson out of their game". Now they have three players that MUST be taken seriously

6) The Knicks just became a better overall defensive team

7) I think there's another trade in the works, so it will be interesting to see what this team looks like in a few weeks

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 31, 2023, 11:20:53 AMI've had some time to grasp the results of this trade. At first I though, "oh no, they're back to reaching..." I liked both players we lost, but I've had time to think it over

My thoughts:

1) Anunoby is a big upgrade from Barrett (both offensively and especially defensively)...even though, I really liked Barrett. IMO, Barrett is a little too "soft", but a damn good basketball player. Unfortunately, "soft" doesn't cut it in the NBA. If this was a straight-up trade for Barrett, it would be a coup!

2) Hate losing Quick, but truth is, we have a glut of guards that isn't good for the overall strength of the team. After the trade, they signed Miles McBride to a 13M, 3-year contract. The "Deuce" will get more playing time now and a chance to hone his skills. I suspect DiVincenzo will see more time at PG as well

3) They also hold the rights to PG Rokas Jokubaitis (drafted in the 2nd round ahead of McBride and Sims in the same draft), who just turned 23 years old and has close to 6 years of international experience under his belt playing professional ball around the globe. He has been dying to get to NY and showcase his skill set. Rose might be planning on bringing him over to see what he can do on the big stage, which is something he has said he wants to do for the last couple of years

4) Anunoby is 26 years old and most likely, will play at his peak abilities for the next 5-6 years when athletes tend to make their mark in history

5) This should take some pressure off Randle, and hopefully loosen him up a bit as defenses have to worry about the other side of the court more than they have in the past. Other teams strategize their defensive plan to "take Randle and Brunson out of their game". Now they have three players that MUST be taken seriously

6) The Knicks just became a better overall defensive team

7) I think there's another trade in the works, so it will be interesting to see what this team looks like in a few weeks

Great summary JG. I agree with all of it.

Like you, I was initially somewhat unnerved by the trade, but after looking more closely at all the details and coming to what I believe to be an understanding of what the Knicks are trying to do, I am not just more comfortable with it but am actually totally supportive of it. They will need to make another move for sure, but I like the direction they're going in.

And going back to my first of these more recent posts (which I made prior to any knowledge of this trade), the current group has clearly plateaued and gotten to a point where they weren't going to get appreciably better without change. I know one poster disagreed with that a little, but even that poster acknowledged that we are not on par with the top teams in the conference, which is pretty obvious from looking at the results. So I'm glad they have shaken it up a little, and this is not at all a shakeup done out of desperation or impetuosity. They have been chasing this guy for over a year now. The fact that the Raptors turned down three first rounders for him last year and are only now moving him because they need to blow the team up due to the rest of the roster being so bad says a lot to me.

https://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1741399886212317335

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 31, 2023, 11:34:47 AMGreat summary JG. I agree with all of it.

Like you, I was initially somewhat unnerved by the trade, but after looking more closely at all the details and coming to what I believe to be an understanding of what the Knicks are trying to do, I am not just more comfortable with it but am actually totally supportive of it. They will need to make another move for sure, but I like the direction they're going in.

And going back to my first of these more recent posts (which I made prior to any knowledge of this trade), the current group has clearly plateaued and gotten to a point where they weren't going to get appreciably better without change. I know one poster disagreed with that a little, but even that poster acknowledged that we are not on par with the top teams in the conference, which is pretty obvious from looking at the results. So I'm glad they have shaken it up a little, and this is not at all a shakeup done out of desperation or impetuosity. They have been chasing this guy for over a year now. The fact that the Raptors turned down three first rounders for him last year and are only now moving him because they need to blow the team up due to the rest of the roster being so bad says a lot to me.

I also read that Quick was in line for starter-like money, even though he's not a starter. Financially, that doesn't make sense, especially if the Knicks are looking at their future...kinda what Boston did to the Knicks when they dumped salary with Fournier (?). But I have to admit that I'll miss the Quick, he was fun to watch

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 31, 2023, 03:02:18 PMI also read that Quick was in line for starter-like money, even though he's not a starter. Financially, that doesn't make sense, especially if the Knicks are looking at their future...kinda what Boston did to the Knicks when they dumped salary with Fournier (?). But I have to admit that I'll miss the Quick, he was fun to watch

Correct. The Knicks were discussing extensions with Quickley, and they were very far off in the negotiations. He needs more minutes than the Knicks can give him (with Brunson on the roaster) to realize his value.

Quickley is one of those guys who is too good to be a sixth man but not quite good enough to be the face of a franchise type guy that you want to have control of the game in a huge spot with five minutes to go. And let me be very clear: that is not a dig on him. I think he's very good. I just don't think he's elite, and I think the Knicks didn't want to get forced into some situation where they're paying him $30mm a year over the next six years given the other needs they have.

I like this trade a lot. I'm on record with that. I think Anunoby is going to be a great fit on this roster.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 31, 2023, 11:36:14 AMhttps://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1741399886212317335

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 31, 2023, 11:36:14 AMhttps://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1741399886212317335

So who replaces Randle as starter?

Who is Mike Scotto?  Does he have any credibility?

I think the trade was good for both teams which is probably the way trades should be made (unless the GM is a Gettleman type).  Last year, the Raptors had multiple chances to trade Van Fleet (sp?) and didn't and ended up with nothing. Personally, I think OG was pretty close to what the Knicks needed and the Precious a guy will also help in a position of need considering the current need at backup center.  Barrett is ok but I don't think will ever be a game changer and I think is easily replaceable.  Quickley will be harder to replace but he's still a bench player although a very good one but he wasn't going to be a starter here unless Brunson got hurt.  Good becnch players are hard to find but easier than quality starters like OG.  But both Barrett and especially Quickley will make the Raptors better but I don't think enough to do much in the playoffs assuming they even get in.  And, that duo is a lot better than losing OG for nothing. 

Quote from: nb587 on December 31, 2023, 06:31:52 PMWho is Mike Scotto?  Does he have any credibility?

I think the trade was good for both teams which is probably the way trades should be made (unless the GM is a Gettleman type).  Last year, the Raptors had multiple chances to trade Van Fleet (sp?) and didn't and ended up with nothing. Personally, I think OG was pretty close to what the Knicks needed and the Precious a guy will also help in a position of need considering the current need at backup center.  Barrett is ok but I don't think will ever be a game changer and I think is easily replaceable.  Quickley will be harder to replace but he's still a bench player although a very good one but he wasn't going to be a starter here unless Brunson got hurt.  Good becnch players are hard to find but easier than quality starters like OG.  But both Barrett and especially Quickley will make the Raptors better but I don't think enough to do much in the playoffs assuming they even get in.  And, that duo is a lot better than losing OG for nothing. 

I can't legitimately vouch for Scotto, but he's a former NY1 producer with a Knicks focus, so presumably he has some ties into the NY sports media world. I will call what he tweeted more speculation than anything else. I'm not going to assign bona fide credibility to it, but we have all heard various rumors the last year or two about them trading Randle.

Randle is a UFA in two offseasons. Meanwhile the cap has gone up. His contract isn't as burdensome as it was two years ago, and (as noted in this thread) he is playing well. I would think he wouldn't be nearly as difficult to move as he was a year or two ago.

I'm trying to figure out the Knicks' lineup now that the team has been remade. IMO, Hart is a major player on this team and he's been used as Randle's backup at PF, when he's really a SF. With the addition of Anunoby (who I'm going to start calling O.G. like "Oh-jee" for convenience) and Precious Achiuwa, I assume Precious will become Randle's backup and Hart will then move back to SF and backup Ohjee...which is where Hart is at his best IMO. So I see it as follows:

PG: Brunson, backups Flynn, DiVincenzo, or Deuce?
SG: DiVincenzo, backups Grimes, Flynn?
SF: Ohjee, backup Hart and Grimes
PF: Randle, Precious and Hart
C: Mitch, backups Hartenstein, Sims

I know next to nothing about Malachi Flynn except that he's 25 yrs old, 6'1", a guard who played a San Diego State and was drafted in the first round by Toronto in 2020. Maybe he becomes Brunson's primary backup at the 1 spot or maybe he's going to be used more as an off guard like DiVincenzo  :-??

Hopefully, he doesn't get used the way Thibs uses Fournier - not at all!

Using this as a guide, if we trade Randle, what kind of player best suits the Knicks going forward? I keep reading rumors that the Knicks are still interested in Donovan Mitchell, but I'm not sure how he would fit into the scheme of things, You certainly don't want to take away court time from Brunson, and not sure a backcourt of Brunson/Mitchell would gel...thinking of the old saying that "two heads cannot lead"...not to mention one of the reasons we let Quick go was because we have a glut at guard  :-??

Just thinking out loud as I wonder what kind of trade the Knicks would be interested in if they are going to make another move. The only one that makes sense (IMHO) if they trade Randle, is to get a better PF in return. Any thoughts?

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 01, 2024, 11:43:47 AMI'm trying to figure out the Knicks' lineup now that the team has been remade. IMO, Hart is a major player on this team and he's been used as Randle's backup at PF, when he's really a SF. With the addition of Anunoby (who I'm going to start calling O.G. like "Oh-jee" for convenience) and Precious Achiuwa, I assume Precious will become Randle's backup and Hart will then move back to SF and backup Ohjee...which is where Hart is at his best IMO. So I see it as follows:

PG: Brunson, backups Flynn, DiVincenzo, or Deuce?
SG: DiVincenzo, backups Grimes, Flynn?
SF: Ohjee, backup Hart and Grimes
PF: Randle, Precious and Hart
C: Mitch, backups Hartenstein, Sims

I know next to nothing about Malachi Flynn except that he's 25 yrs old, 6'1", a guard who played a San Diego State and was drafted in the first round by Toronto in 2020. Maybe he becomes Brunson's primary backup at the 1 spot or maybe he's going to be used more as an off guard like DiVincenzo  :-??

Hopefully, he doesn't get used the way Thibs uses Fournier - not at all!

Using this as a guide, if we trade Randle, what kind of player best suits the Knicks going forward? I keep reading rumors that the Knicks are still interested in Donovan Mitchell, but I'm not sure how he would fit into the scheme of things, You certainly don't want to take away court time from Brunson, and not sure a backcourt of Brunson/Mitchell would gel...thinking of the old saying that "two heads cannot lead"...not to mention one of the reasons we let Quick go was because we have a glut at guard  :-??

Just thinking out loud as I wonder what kind of trade the Knicks would be interested in if they are going to make another move. The only one that makes sense (IMHO) if they trade Randle, is to get a better PF in return. Any thoughts?

Mitchell and Dejaunte Murray come up a lot. Out of those two, I like Murray a lot more, but there is no doubt Mitchell brings some potent scoring ability to the table.

If Randle were gone it would leave a bit of a hole at the power forward position. OG is versatile and and can D-up on guards, swingmen, and power forwards, but he doesn't have the rebounding capability that Randle does.

I think if they moved Randle they'd need some sort of replacement for him. It wouldn't have to be an exceptional player if they were getting a high quality 2 like Murray or Mitchell, but they'd need another banger, because OG is really a 3 and Robinson is very clearly a 5 and a 5 only.

Unclear at this point.

I have trouble conjuring up a trade that includes Randall and doesnt bring back a power forward.  I also dont see them trading for Mitchell if only because Cleveland gave up a ton for him and I cant see the Knicjs offering anything remotely close to what Cleveland would ask for.  Plus, he doesn't play defense. 

I don't know much about Murray but have read that the Knicks and Lakers are interested.  Maybe someone can weigh in on what he brings to the table

Quote from: nb587 on January 02, 2024, 05:49:35 PMI don't know much about Murray but have read that the Knicks and Lakers are interested.  Maybe someone can weigh in on what he brings to the table

27 year old, 20 PPG Shooting guard who is an excellent defender and can hit threes. Has been all NBA defense 2nd team. Distributes the ball well too (average 9.2 APG one year). Was an all star last year. Really good all-around player. I strongly prefer him to Mitchell.

Thanks DB.  Thats a player that would help although I dont see creating a weakness at PF to bring back a SG although a guy that could score and play defense well is a major plus.  If the line about Randle is true, a bigger deal and other teams would be involved

Quote from: nb587 on January 03, 2024, 07:54:11 AMThanks DB.  Thats a player that would help although I dont see creating a weakness at PF to bring back a SG although a guy that could score and play defense well is a major plus.  If the line about Randle is true, a bigger deal and other teams would be involved

Very fair point NB, and I can't argue it whatsoever. I'm not sure what the plan would be at the 4 if we move Randle. Hart isn't really a 4, and our other bigs are clear centers. Anunoby is very clearly a 3.

I'm not sure who would take over at the 4 if we were to do some sort of a trade involving sending Randle plus picks to SA for Murray. It would probably end up being some lesser player. Hart can help a little there, but he's not really a replacement for Randle.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 03, 2024, 12:22:02 PMVery fair point NB, and I can't argue it whatsoever. I'm not sure what the plan would be at the 4 if we move Randle. Hart isn't really a 4, and our other bigs are clear centers. Anunoby is very clearly a 3.

I'm not sure who would take over at the 4 if we were to do some sort of a trade involving sending Randle plus picks to SA for Murray. It would probably end up being some lesser player. Hart can help a little there, but he's not really a replacement for Randle.

I'm on the same page as you. I see Hart as rotating with the 3 and 2 spot...I think we're misusing the team's talent by sticking him in the 4 behind Randle. Hart needs to be on the floor more than 20-25 minutes and so does OG, so it's a bit of a dilemma. It might be better to keep Randle and search for a solid, under the radar 4 to back him up (Obi anyone??? LOL)...especially when he's having one of his off days. Not sure who would fit that bill or what kind of trade would work

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 03, 2024, 01:37:11 PMI'm on the same page as you. I see Hart as rotating with the 3 and 2 spot...I think we're misusing the team's talent by sticking him in the 4 behind Randle. Hart needs to be on the floor more than 20-25 minutes and so does OG, so it's a bit of a dilemma. It might be better to keep Randle and search for a solid, under the radar 4 to back him up (Obi anyone??? LOL)...especially when he's having one of his off days. Not sure who would fit that bill or what kind of trade would work

That kind of deal could not happen unless a 3rd team was involved that would bring back a 4 or Atlanta had a decent 4 to offer.  Also, the way Randle is playing, I think that trading him plus a few 1's would be overpaying.  Randle has been playing at an all star level primarily, in my opinion, because of Brunson being an excellent PG plus OG will take a good amount of load off of Randle.  I still would trade him for the right offer but would want more than I would have wanted last month.

Monster win by the Knicks. 36 point margin in Philly. 3-0 since the trade, with two of the wins being against quality opponents. Things may be starting to look up. I wonder if those who panned the trade on day one still hate it.

What was surprising about the game was a bad performance by Randle.  He couldn't throw the ball in the ocean.  OG did not have a good game offensively but he's a very good defensive player.  The Villenova boys were on tonight and Brunson was outstanding.  To win by this margin on the road against a good team was something especially getting almost nothing from Randle says something about prospects going forward.  I still think another move is coming.

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1743486551512727777

Very thrilling to watch the Knicks absolutely throttle the Sixers  =D>  :nanner:  :notworthy:

I was reading...somewhere, I can't remember...that "we need to get a '6th man' to replace Quick, the 'best 6th man' in the league". Perhaps the fan is right, but for me, I think we already have him in Hart. Hart might not be the offensive shot in the arm that Quick was, but he brings incredible energy to the floor and his defense is outstanding. He's the perfect 6th man!...IMO

I'm still trying to figure out where the team needs upgrading. A "lights out" SG? A rotational piece to Randle? And we still haven't seen what Precious Achiuwa can do. He had 3 rebounds, 1for2 3pt, a block and a take away in 13 minutes of play last night (+10 while on the floor)

So really, what exactly do we need to make this team elite? I agree that it would be nice to find a dynamic playmaker to replace Quick on the second team, but that's about it in my opinion...and it's hard not to notice the maturity that Deuce has become...although, I don't think Deuce brings the same intensity that Quick brought to the second team, but he's steady and good defensively  :-??

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 06, 2024, 09:33:38 AMVery thrilling to watch the Knicks absolutely throttle the Sixers  =D>  :nanner:  :notworthy:

I was reading...somewhere, I can't remember...that "we need to get a '6th man' to replace Quick, the 'best 6th man' in the league". Perhaps the fan is right, but for me, I think we already have him in Hart. Hart might not be the offensive shot in the arm that Quick was, but he brings incredible energy to the floor and his defense is outstanding. He's the perfect 6th man!...IMO

I'm still trying to figure out where the team needs upgrading. A "lights out" SG? A rotational piece to Randle? And we still haven't seen what Precious Achiuwa can do. He had 3 rebounds, 1for2 3pt, a block and a take away in 13 minutes of play last night (+10 while on the floor)

So really, what exactly do we need to make this team elite? I agree that it would be nice to find a dynamic playmaker to replace Quick on the second team, but that's about it in my opinion...and it's hard not to notice the maturity that Deuce has become...although, I don't think Deuce brings the same intensity that Quick brought to the second team, but he's steady and good defensively  :-??

I think what we are now lacking is an impact, secondary backcourt player. Grimes and McBride were good last night, but overall they're not high impact players. Quick was. I think we need a replacement for him. DeJounte Murray would be the cream of the crop of guys I would love to see us get. He's a 20 PPG guy who plays big time defense and can shoot threes. Stick him on this team somehow, and you have a championship caliber team IMO (with a healthy Robinson).

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 06, 2024, 09:40:37 AMI think what we are now lacking is an impact, secondary backcourt player. Grimes and McBride were good last night, but overall they're not high impact players. Quick was. I think we need a replacement for him. DeJounte Murray would be the cream of the crop of guys I would love to see us get. He's a 20 PPG guy who plays big time defense and can shoot threes. Stick him on this team somehow, and you have a championship caliber team IMO (with a healthy Robinson).

Murray would take this team up to the next level, and put us in contention for taking over the Eastern conference IMO. Rumors galore that the Knicks are wanting him. I love Hart, Grimes, Deuce, even Achiuwa, as the foundations of team 2, but Murray at the 2 spot would be insane and give us a great starting 5. Move DiVincenzo to Team 2 and have a starting lineup of Brunson, Murray, OG, Randle, and Mitch...with a backup of Hart, Deuce, DiVincenzo, Grimes, Precious, and Hartenstien. I can imagine seeing a package of Grimes, Fournier, and a quiver of first round picks to pull off such a trade. The Lakers are also all in on Murray. They don't have the assets the Knicks have, but Atlanta might prefer moving Murray to the west and keeping him out of their own division...who knows  :-??

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 06, 2024, 10:05:23 AMMurray would take this team up to the next level, and put us in contention for taking over the Eastern conference IMO. Rumors galore that the Knicks are wanting him. I love Hart, Grimes, Deuce, even Achiuwa, as the foundations of team 2, but Murray at the 2 spot would be insane and give us a great starting 5. Move DiVincenzo to Team 2 and have a starting lineup of Brunson, Murray, OG, Randle, and Mitch...with a backup of Hart, Deuce, DiVincenzo, Grimes, Precious, and Hartenstien. I can imagine seeing a package of Grimes, Fournier, and a quiver of first round picks to pull off such a trade. The Lakers are also all in on Murray. They don't have the assets the Knicks have, but Atlanta might prefer moving Murray to the west and keeping him out of their own division...who knows  :-??

We definitely have more assets than the Lakers in terms of picks, plus we have some young players (such as Grimes, whom you mentioned) who have developmental value. In the case of Murray, I don't know how it would work cap-wise or if Randle would be part of the move. I totally understand the point we have already discussed on this board, which is that moving Randle as part of a deal to get Murray just plugs one hole while creating another. I'm actually not even sure how desirable Randle is to other teams with his contract.

Basically, if there is a way to get Murray on this team without moving any of our main starters, I'd be all-in on that. IMO such a move would take us from being a good team to a great team.

Brunson
Murray
OG
Randle
Robinson

Hart
DiVo
Hartenstein/Sims (whoever stays)
Achiuwa
Grimes/McBride (whoever stays)

To me that's a team that is capable of beating any NBA team in a series and would consistently be one of the top three seeds in the East for the next several years. I don't know if the above is possible, but if it is, I'd be ecstatic with that.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 06, 2024, 10:31:21 AMWe definitely have more assets than the Lakers in terms of picks, plus we have some young players (such as Grimes, whom you mentioned) who have developmental value. In the case of Murray, I don't know how it would work cap-wise or if Randle would be part of the move. I totally understand the point we have already discussed on this board, which is that moving Randle as part of a deal to get Murray just plugs one hole while creating another. I'm actually not even sure how desirable Randle is to other teams with his contract.

Basically, if there is a way to get Murray on this team without moving any of our main starters, I'd be all-in on that. IMO such a move would take us from being a good team to a great team.

Brunson
Murray
OG
Randle
Robinson

Hart
DiVo
Hartenstein/Sims (whoever stays)
Achiuwa
Grimes/McBride (whoever stays)

To me that's a team that is capable of beating any NBA team in a series and would consistently be one of the top three seeds in the East for the next several years. I don't know if the above is possible, but if it is, I'd be ecstatic with that.

I can't imagine the Knicks letting Randle go. On any given night, he can drop 45 points and dominate a game. And now that he's not the "only star" on the team, he's going to be getting less pressure. He has off nights, of course...which frustrates fans. But if they let him go, as you point out, we need a top-notch 4 to replace him...easier said than done

To me, the most vulnerable player on the team to get traded is Grimes. But he'd have to get packaged with another player and a fist full of picks. If they give up most of the draft capital and Grimes for Murray, they better know for sure that he's the missing piece to the puzzle because they won't draft picks to develop players on the second team

I think one of the biggest steals that the Knicks have gotten is flying under the radar...Hartenstein. Now that he's finally getting to play in a starting role, he has grown some big nads and is having the time of his life going up against the best big men and winning. It might even make Mitch a possible trade piece  :-??

Steve Smith blew up the internet with his comment last night when he said, "I don't know, some dude named Hartenstein..." in a condescending tone (which is his nature). Fournier jumped all over Smith in defending Hartenstein as did a shltload of fans. Hartenstein was +35 and +26 in his last two games and is defending the paint with gusto and getting assists. He dropped 17 points last night, and if he was more offensive minded, he'd probably be a starter on most teams...and he's contract-friendly

If we can get Murray without depleting the team and our draft assets, I'd go berzerk

Suggested on another board:
(https://i.postimg.cc/QxK7D2QB/zzzvd.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Good game last night. Knicks were blowing them out in the first half, then took their foot off the gas in the third and let the Wizards climb back in it...not to worry, Knicks went back to blowing them out 121-105. Hart and Hartenstein had good games. Hartenstein had 19 rebounds, 4 steals, 2 blocks, 2 assists and led the team with a +26. Randle dropped 39 pts. But the highlight of the night was Deuce slipping in out of nowhere in a forest of big men and stuffed a missed shot in their faces - Deuce is playing well, especially defensively

https://twitter.com/EverythinKnicks/status/1743794088191676852

This made me laugh:
https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1743862193387409836

Knicks are creeping up the ladder in standings, now in 4th place after blowing out the Trail Blazers last night (118-84) with a suffocating defense like I've seldom seen. They've won 5 straight since acquiring OG and OG is the first player in NBA history to start his first 5 games with a new team with a cumulative-plus over 100 (+111). Very unselfish player...when asked how he does it, he simply says, "I look for the open man". He's not trying to be a one-man show, unless it's defense. He has made the Knicks more rounded and a better team...so far. Last night he chipped in 23 pts while hitting 4/6 from the 3-pt line

IHart (Hartenstein) led the team with (+31, tied with Randle) while grabbing 14 RBs, 3 assists, 3 steals, and a blocked shot. He has been on fire since becoming a starter and will command big bucks once he's a free agent. He'd be a starter on another team, so the Knicks should lock him up now. He's not only great on the boards and blocking shots, but he has the mindset of a point guard and like OG, always keeping track of who's open and possesses the savvy to make seemingly impossible passes

McBride is showing grit and hustle pouring in 16 pts off the bench las night, while knocking down 4/7 from behind the 3-pt line and getting a couple rebounds and a steal. He's showing the reason the Knicks extended him a couple weeks ago. He's taking the sting out of the loss of Quick. He hustles like his hair is on fire
 
Grimes chipped in 17 pts off the bench and is starting to adjust (and even like) his new role. He was 4/9 from the three and 3/3 at the free throw line. Some were worried he didn't want to be back on the 2nd team, but he's adjusted and doing just fine

I'm surprised at the lack of interest in the Knicks lately

Quick test to see how well you know your Knicks

This man was an international basketball star and he has a son who plays for the Knicks. Do you know which one?

(https://i.postimg.cc/FRhBmJhr/image.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

No takers????

Here's another clue

(https://i.postimg.cc/Lsr9m1DZ/images.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 10, 2024, 06:23:53 PMNo takers????

Here's another clue

(https://i.postimg.cc/Lsr9m1DZ/images.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Ahh... Hartenstein. Wow.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 10, 2024, 06:26:14 PMAhh... Hartenstein. Wow.

Yup, black father, white mother...you'd never know it other than the way he plays

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 10, 2024, 06:29:36 PMYup, black father, white mother...you'd never know it other than the way he plays

Interesting. I had no idea.

5-0 since the trade. Granted, some of the games have been against bad teams, but two were against very good teams. And the ones against bad teams have been utterly lopsided. I really like what I'm seeing. I certainly don't think we're championship caliber just yet, but, so far at least, this trade appears to have made us appreciably better. And the fact that we were going after this guy for a year now suggests they did their homework and foresaw how good of a fit he would be.

FWIW, I have a group of Knicks fan friends who are extremely into the NBA and are much more knowledgeable than I am, and they are actually against going after DeJounte Murray. They think he's a very good player, but they don't like the idea of unloading our assets for him. They think he'd help us, but wouldn't quite make us title material. They think the best move is to sit tight, maybe consider adding a role player type before the deadline, but basically hold out for a superstar who wants to move teams. And then pounce on that.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 10, 2024, 06:39:52 PMInteresting. I had no idea.

5-0 since the trade. Granted, some of the games have been against bad teams, but two were against very good teams. And the ones against bad teams have been utterly lopsided. I really like what I'm seeing. I certainly don't think we're championship caliber just yet, but, so far at least, this trade appears to have made us appreciably better. And the fact that we were going after this guy for a year now suggests they did their homework and foresaw how good of a fit he would be.

FWIW, I have a group of Knicks fan friends who are extremely into the NBA and are much more knowledgeable than I am, and they are actually against going after DeJounte Murray. They think he's a very good player, but they don't like the idea of unloading our assets for him. They think he'd help us, but wouldn't quite make us title material. They think the best move is to sit tight, maybe consider adding a role player type before the deadline, but basically hold out for a superstar who wants to move teams. And then pounce on that.

I tend to agree with your friends. They've got their starting five, and second team with Deuce/Malachi Flynn, Grimes, Hart, IHart, Jericho, and Precious Achiuwa...we're not in bad shape at all. I suppose if they could slip in a All-Pro shooting guard, you could move Divincenzo to second team and Grimes rotate with Hart and Divvy  :-??

And we have Obi's younger brother (I think he's more of a 3 than a 4) who looks pretty good as well as international star point guard, Rokas Jokubaitis who was just voted by GMs/HCs as "Best International Player", sitting in the wings. Standing pat is not a bad strategy

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 10, 2024, 06:49:58 PMI tend to agree with your friends. They've got their starting five, and second team with Deuce/Malachi Flynn, Grimes, Hart, IHart, Jericho, and Precious Achiuwa...we're not in bad shape at all. I suppose if they could slip in a All-Pro shooting guard, you could move Divincenzo to second team and Grimes rotate with Hart and Divvy  :-??

And we have Obi's younger brother (I think he's more of a 3 than a 4) who looks pretty good as well as international star point guard, Rokas Jokubaitis who was just voted by GMs/HCs as "Best International Player", sitting in the wings. Standing pat is not a bad strategy

There is definitely something to be said for it if the thinking is that Murray, while very good, won't quite put us over the top. Because if that's the case, once you acquire him, then what? We'd be surely maxed out cap-wise, and we'd have little in the way of assets at that point, and then any draft pick we do have for ourselves is going to be in the 20th to 25th overall type range, which doesn't get you a difference-maker unless you get incredibly lucky, which just doesn't happen often. I do understand the logic.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 10, 2024, 07:15:45 PMThere is definitely something to be said for it if the thinking is that Murray, while very good, won't quite put us over the top. Because if that's the case, once you acquire him, then what? We'd be surely maxed out cap-wise, and we'd have little in the way of assets at that point, and then any draft pick we do have for ourselves is going to be in the 20th to 25th overall type range, which doesn't get you a difference-maker unless you get incredibly lucky, which just doesn't happen often. I do understand the logic.

Let's just hope and pray that they are smart enough to run the team the exact opposite way of how it was run for the quarter-century. Build slowly and develop. Keep and re-sign your best players. Be patient!

Another pic...dad and son. Isaiah and Florian Hartenstein

(https://i.postimg.cc/HnWPRTKP/c34e47993d94b7da98e8f5d2a300f5b6-crop-exact.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Given their success since this last trade, I think they sit pat and let them coalesce as they look good.

At Mavs tonight. Nice break to catch them without Luca.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 11, 2024, 03:51:30 PMAt Mavs tonight. Nice break to catch them without Luca.

On my schedule. It sucks that it's Thursday night because all the shows I watch (Reacher 2, Monarch: Legacy of Monsters, etc.) drop their next episode on Thursdays. I'll have to watch them tomorrow I guess

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 11, 2024, 03:51:30 PMAt Mavs tonight. Nice break to catch them without Luca.

I was wondering why the Knicks were favored. 

I'm of the opinion that they might be able to get Murray without giving up everything.  I think Fournier's expiring contract has value.  The flip side is that the unprotected picks might not have too much value and might revert to 2nd round picks.  But, to Murray. I think its a pipe dream to expect Towns or some other star to come. The addition of OG elevated them from being probable play in team to a definite top 6. Adding Murray, based on what I've read, elevates them to probably below the Celtics, on a par with the Bucks and probably ahead of the 76ers.  That presumes decent health and not a bad outcome this year. And, they might get lucky in the playoffs

A trade worth making IMO

We gained with OG, but lost a little giving up IQ

IQ came in second for "Sixth Man of the Year", and he lost to Malcolm Brogdon, a combo 1 and 2, who averaged 15 pts, 3.4 rebounds, and 5.2 assists per game last season coming off the bench, and plays hard defense (winning "Defensive Player of the Year" in 2016. He's 6'4" and 31 years old and plays for the Trail Blazers who suck and are ready to blow up the team, so every player is available. Given his age, and the fact that he's not a starter, he shouldn't be that hard to get. Picking him up wouldn't have the same impact as when we got Hart or OG, but it would replace the spark that IQ used to give us off the bench...and as pointed out, he beat out IQ as 6th man. It's not the "missing piece", but it's an upgrade without killing the team's future

(https://i.postimg.cc/8PXPpTgL/zzzzzzzzzzzsz.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

He wouldn't cost a king's ransom. Trailblazers want youth and/or draft picks. Regardless, he would fill in nicely as first man off the bench to replace Brunson or Divvy

Funny you mention Brogdon, JBG. Those same friends of mine I mentioned who didn't love the Murray trade idea mentioned that it would be smart to make a play for someone like Brogdon or Jordan Clarkson. Both are the types of players who can more or less fill Quickley's role but aren't going to eat into our assets too much. I would feel a lot better about sitting pat and waiting for a major star if we grabbed someone like one of these guys for the near term. Right now it feels like we need another scorer.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 13, 2024, 03:39:00 PMFunny you mention Brogdon, JBG. Those same friends of mine I mentioned who didn't love the Murray trade idea mentioned that it would be smart to make a play for someone like Brogdon or Jordan Clarkson. Both are the types of players who can more or less fill Quickley's role but aren't going to eat into our assets too much. I would feel a lot better about sitting pat and waiting for a major star if we grabbed someone like one of these guys for the near term. Right now it feels like we need another scorer.

Your friends sound like intelligent men...or as my son used to say, "pretty fart smellers"...LOL

I too, don't want to mortgage the farm and bring in a big name superstar who might radically change the chemistry, while depleting our draft stock and/or young assets. I also wonder if Thibs is ever going to call up Rokas Jokubaitas to see what we got in the Euroleague star, voted "Best International Player" by coaches...an honor given to the likes of Luka Dončić and Danilo Gallinari...which is pretty good company. Not a huge scorer, but extremely smart and gets the most out of teammates. He brings an insane amount of energy when on the floor as did IQ, maybe even more

I think Randle should be getting some love by the fans this year. He's been nothing short of superstar status. Not having those off days like last year when he still was voted an All Star

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 13, 2024, 04:14:42 PMYour friends sound like intelligent men...or as my son used to say, "pretty fart smellers"...LOL

I too, don't want to mortgage the farm and bring in a big name superstar who might radically change the chemistry, while depleting our draft stock and/or young assets. I also wonder if Thibs is ever going to call up Rokas Jokubaitas to see what we got in the Euroleague star, voted "Best International Player" by coaches...an honor given to the likes of Luka Dončić and Danilo Gallinari...which is pretty good company. Not a huge scorer, but extremely smart and gets the most out of teammates. He brings an insane amount of energy when on the floor as did IQ, maybe even more

I think Randle should be getting some love by the fans this year. He's been nothing short of superstar status. Not having those off days like last year when he still was voted an All Star

If the right opportunity (for a star who is a fit) doesn't come along this year, I am fine going after a Brogdon type and going into the playoffs with that and seeing how we do. I don't think we are championship caliber yet, but I think we're a good solid playoff team. I could see a guy like OG being a huge help in the postseason. I'd be curious to see how far we could get.

I've read three articles this morning and they all say the same thing..."Knicks are actively dangling Grimes" and looking for a "backup guard"

My hunch is that Grimes will be gone and there will be a trade soon...hopefully we don't give up a bunch of our draft assets to pull it off. Grimes is good enough to be a starter on some teams IMO

edited for more info:

https://twitter.com/KnicksMuse/status/1747295732099367131

Katz writes for the Athletic...a summary of what he wrote:

 Its clear that along with Fournier - Grimes is the biggest player piece the Knicks could move and Fournier is also a valuable piece with his expiring contract. According to him (Katz), here are the players the Knicks have interest in: "Some players who fit that description include (in no particular order): the Portland Trail Blazers' Malcolm Brogdon, the Utah Jazz's Jordan Clarkson and Collin Sexton, the Charlotte Hornets' Terry Rozier, the Indiana Pacers' Bruce Brown and T.J. McConnell, the Atlanta Hawks' Bogdan Bogdanović, the Cleveland Cavaliers' Caris LeVert and the Dallas Mavericks' Tim Hardaway Jr."

Personally, I hope they get Brogdon

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 17, 2024, 09:57:59 AMI've read three articles this morning and they all say the same thing..."Knicks are actively dangling Grimes" and looking for a "backup guard"

My hunch is that Grimes will be gone and there will be a trade soon...hopefully we don't give up a bunch of our draft assets to pull it off. Grimes is good enough to be a starter on some teams IMO

edited for more info:

https://twitter.com/KnicksMuse/status/1747295732099367131

Katz writes for the Athletic...a summary of what he wrote:

 Its clear that along with Fournier - Grimes is the biggest player piece the Knicks could move and Fournier is also a valuable piece with his expiring contract. According to him (Katz), here are the players the Knicks have interest in: "Some players who fit that description include (in no particular order): the Portland Trail Blazers' Malcolm Brogdon, the Utah Jazz's Jordan Clarkson and Collin Sexton, the Charlotte Hornets' Terry Rozier, the Indiana Pacers' Bruce Brown and T.J. McConnell, the Atlanta Hawks' Bogdan Bogdanović, the Cleveland Cavaliers' Caris LeVert and the Dallas Mavericks' Tim Hardaway Jr."

Personally, I hope they get Brogdon

Grimes plus a non-painful, smidge of draft capital for Brogdon seems like a great move. As discussed, it would get the Knicks to a place where they could confidently compete with all but maybe three or four NBA teams in a seven game series. That's not a bad place to be considering the past decades in their totality. Then, you bide your time and wait for someone elite to be available, and then you make the big move.

Dominant win tonight against the defending champs. 11-2 since the trade. OG was tremendous tonight.

The Knicks are dominating defensively since the trade for OG. Here's some stats posted before last night's floor-mopping of the defending NBA Champion Nuggets

"Pre-Anunoby, the Knicks carried a defensive rating of 115.5, which was 20th in the league. They allowed 113.9 points per game, and opponents had an effective field-goal percentage of 55.4, tied for the NBA's 10th-worst.

Post-Anunoby, the Knicks are allowing an average of 101.1 points (1st in the NBA) on an effective field-goal percentage of 49.8 (2nd). Their defensive rating post-Anunoby is 104.2 (2nd) with improvements across the board (in opponents' two-point field-goal percentage, opponents' 3-point field-goal percentage and second-chance points allowed).

Anunoby, meanwhile, has matched up with, among many others, Anthony Edwards, Joel Embiid, Tyrese Maxey, Kyrie Irving, Paolo Banchero, Scottie Barnes and Mikal Bridges...."

The Knicks lost some offensive firepower with the loss of RJ and Quick, but they have become a dominate defensive force, as evidenced last night by holding the NBA Champions to 84 points; thus, improving the numbers from the aforementioned stats

Brunson is the Rodney Dangerfield of the NBA - again. Brunson got an All Star nod, but PGs Lillard and Haliburton will be starting, even though the media vote had Brunson beating Lillard. The fans let Brunson down by not voting

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 26, 2024, 07:54:39 AMThe Knicks are dominating defensively since the trade for OG. Here's some stats posted before last night's floor-mopping of the defending NBA Champion Nuggets

"Pre-Anunoby, the Knicks carried a defensive rating of 115.5, which was 20th in the league. They allowed 113.9 points per game, and opponents had an effective field-goal percentage of 55.4, tied for the NBA's 10th-worst.

Post-Anunoby, the Knicks are allowing an average of 101.1 points (1st in the NBA) on an effective field-goal percentage of 49.8 (2nd). Their defensive rating post-Anunoby is 104.2 (2nd) with improvements across the board (in opponents' two-point field-goal percentage, opponents' 3-point field-goal percentage and second-chance points allowed).

Anunoby, meanwhile, has matched up with, among many others, Anthony Edwards, Joel Embiid, Tyrese Maxey, Kyrie Irving, Paolo Banchero, Scottie Barnes and Mikal Bridges...."

The Knicks lost some offensive firepower with the loss of RJ and Quick, but they have become a dominate defensive force, as evidenced last night by holding the NBA Champions to 84 points; thus, improving the numbers from the aforementioned stats

Brunson is the Rodney Dangerfield of the NBA - again. Brunson got an All Star nod, but PGs Lillard and Haliburton will be starting, even though the media vote had Brunson beating Lillard. The fans let Brunson down by not voting

Lillard plays zero defense, and it's been a real problem for the Bucks. Not that Brunson is exactly Gary Payton, but Lillard is a bigger liability in that sense. I'd take Brunson over him right now, personally. I agree the fans let him down somewhat. I would say he is significantly underpaid as well at $26mm per. That's lower than what the Knicks were paying RJ Barrett. Look at the rest of the salary landscape for NBA point guards (see below). Amazes me that some thought the Knicks were overpaying to get Brunson. This acquisition was literally a Jesse James level steal.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/point-guard/

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 26, 2024, 08:03:55 AMLillard plays zero defense, and it's been a real problem for the Bucks. Not that Brunson is exactly Gary Payton, but Lillard is a bigger liability in that sense. I'd take Brunson over him right now, personally. I agree the fans let him down somewhat. I would say he is significantly underpaid as well at $26mm per. That's lower than what the Knicks were paying RJ Barrett. Look at the rest of the salary landscape for NBA point guards (see below). Amazes me that some thought the Knicks were overpaying to get Brunson. This acquisition was literally a Jesse James level steal.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/point-guard/

Great article this morning in the subscriber section of the NY Post on Brunson. It recalls the draft of 2022 when the Knicks seemed to empty their draft assets instead of using them - an excerpt: "...June 2022. The Knicks went into draft night with the No. 11 overall pick — their reward for wheezing to a 37-45 finish the season prior — and came away with ... nothing. No Jaden Ivey. No Shaedon Sharpe. No A.J. Griffin. They traded back in the first round then attached the pick to Kemba Walker to get off his contract..."


It was all to free up money so they could pursue Brunson. At the time...didn't seem a popular move...in hindsight, it was friggin brilliant!

(https://i.postimg.cc/YSWmVn27/zxzx.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

An incredible stat since OG Anunoby's arrival on the team (excerpts from the NY Post)

"Since he arrived on the roster at the start of 2024, the Knicks have outscored teams by 239 points in Anunoby's 467 minutes, according to NBA.com. His plus-239 represents the best plus-minus for a player through his first 13 games with a new team since tracking started...

Who ranks No. 2 on that list? Rasheed Wallace in 2004, when he was plus-172 with the Pistons after being traded in February from the Blazers. That turned into a championship for Detroit and one of the best historical in-season moves...

...his defensive versatility and ability to switch onto all five positions has unlocked a Knicks shell difficult to penetrate...

'It's pretty wild,' said Jalen Brunson, aware of the numbers. 'I can't really say anything besides he's always doing the right things out there, doing the right things on both sides of the ball...he makes life a lot easier,' Brunson said. 'It looks effortless when he plays out there defensively. So what he's been able to do has been special.'...added Julius Randle: 'He just always seems to be in the right place.'"

Heading into Friday's games, Anunoby's plus-minus of 239 was No. 1 in the NBA since the New Year. But Nos. 2, 3 and 5 belong to Brunson (plus-193), Isaiah Hartenstein (plus-159) and Randle (plus-148), respectively, which indicates his presence makes those around him that much better

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 27, 2024, 08:36:53 AMAn incredible stat since OG Anunoby's arrival on the team (excerpts from the NY Post)

"Since he arrived on the roster at the start of 2024, the Knicks have outscored teams by 239 points in Anunoby's 467 minutes, according to NBA.com. His plus-239 represents the best plus-minus for a player through his first 13 games with a new team since tracking started...

Who ranks No. 2 on that list? Rasheed Wallace in 2004, when he was plus-172 with the Pistons after being traded in February from the Blazers. That turned into a championship for Detroit and one of the best historical in-season moves...

...his defensive versatility and ability to switch onto all five positions has unlocked a Knicks shell difficult to penetrate...

'It's pretty wild,' said Jalen Brunson, aware of the numbers. 'I can't really say anything besides he's always doing the right things out there, doing the right things on both sides of the ball...he makes life a lot easier,' Brunson said. 'It looks effortless when he plays out there defensively. So what he's been able to do has been special.'...added Julius Randle: 'He just always seems to be in the right place.'"

Heading into Friday's games, Anunoby's plus-minus of 239 was No. 1 in the NBA since the New Year. But Nos. 2, 3 and 5 belong to Brunson (plus-193), Isaiah Hartenstein (plus-159) and Randle (plus-148), respectively, which indicates his presence makes those around him that much better

I've never seen this data although I do look at plus/minus in each game when I look through the box score and his is usually the best on the team or among the best. He's been great. If you watch the games, he does so many things that don't necessarily appear on the stat sheet. He's amazing at fighting through screens, not getting faked out, etc. He can stay defensively on pretty much any position. He chokes up passing lanes. And offensively he's lethal from three and he has a very strong move to the basket. He's basically RJ Barrett EXCEPT he's actually a very good three point man and instead of being bad on defense he's elite.

It's no coincidence that they're 11-2 since trading for him.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they hold up against the Heat today.

When the combination of Brunson, OG, and Randle click as they are...I'd be hesitant to rock the boat with a trade except for maybe improving the 2nd team...hence Malcom Brogdon is probably their best bet. A lot of chatter about Bruce Brown who might end up challenging Divincenzo for the starting two...although Divincenzo is a little better 3 pt shooter, but maybe not as good defensively. Would seem like a wash to me, and might even mess with the chemistry  :-??

Second team with Hart, Grimes, Deuce, Achiuwa, and Hartenstein (once Mitch is back) is not bad at all. Hart and IHart are both starters on other teams, and maybe Grimes. I don't see how Bruce Brown would replace Hart at the three, but giving up Grimes and replacing him with Brown could actually be a downgrade IMO. One of my worries is losing Hartenstein at the end of the season due to financial matters. I want to keep him

Achiuwa has had a couple of pretty impressive games...nice pickup for the Knicks that flies far under the media radar. Gotta give Thibs and the front office kudos for the way they are piecing together a quality team that the Knicks can finally be proud of

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 27, 2024, 09:34:10 AMWhen the combination of Brunson, OG, and Randle click as they are...I'd be hesitant to rock the boat with a trade except for maybe improving the 2nd team...hence Malcom Brogdon is probably their best bet. A lot of chatter about Bruce Brown who might end up challenging Divincenzo for the starting two...although Divincenzo is a little better 3 pt shooter, but maybe not as good defensively. Would seem like a wash to me, and might even mess with the chemistry  :-??

Second team with Hart, Grimes, Deuce, Achiuwa, and Hartenstein (once Mitch is back) is not bad at all. Hart and IHart are both starters on other teams, and maybe Grimes. I don't see how Bruce Brown would replace Hart at the three, but giving up Grimes and replacing him with Brown could actually be a downgrade IMO. One of my worries is losing Hartenstein at the end of the season due to financial matters. I want to keep him

Achiuwa has had a couple of pretty impressive games...nice pickup for the Knicks that flies far under the media radar. Gotta give Thibs and the front office kudos for the way they are piecing together a quality team that the Knicks can finally be proud of

I didn't know much about Achiuwa before he got here but he definitely seems additive. Grimes has also stepped his game up a bit of late and even McBride at times. While I don't think this is a championship team, I do think it's getting closer.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 27, 2024, 12:11:45 PMI didn't know much about Achiuwa before he got here but he definitely seems additive. Grimes has also stepped his game up a bit of late and even McBride at times. While I don't think this is a championship team, I do think it's getting closer.

Achiuwa is a legit power forward and backup center. He's onlyl 24 and at 6'9", he's playing his natural position that he's played growing up. We haven't had a legit four since we lost Obi and Hart backing up Randle was not all that great. Hart belongs on the small side of the court. Achiuwa grew up on the streets of NY and was a die-hard Knicks' fan. He was drafted in the first round (20) two years ago at Miami before being flipped to Toronto, where he hasn't gotten a ton of opportunity. Now he's playing on the court that he's dreamed about his whole life and is highly motivated. He's trending upward and will improve even more as he learns the system and working with the other guys. On top of that, he can play center as shown against the Nuggets the other day when he pulled down 10 rebounds, had 3 assists, etc., in limited floor time

Well, they wiped the floor with Miami back to back ass kicking of two of the top teams in the country. Not just wins, but domination

Then we lose Randle to injury - could be serious enough to be season ending ~X(

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 27, 2024, 06:37:45 PMWell, they wiped the floor with Miami back to back ass kicking of two of the top teams in the country. Not just wins, but domination

Then we lose Randle to injury - could be serious enough to be season ending ~X(

Another great win but very worried about Randle. If he's done for the year that's a major negative game changer for this team. Hopefully that's not the case, but you never know with shoulders. Wide range of possibilities.

Down by 15 with a little over 4 minutes to play and a rookie tries to steal a charge as if he's still back in UCLA.  :boooo:

Good news on Randle. Looks like his injury is on the lower end of the range of outcomes from a severity standpoint.

His prognosis is "weeks, not months."

While there is nothing good about any injury, his absence may have a couple of silver linings to it:

(1) Randle is a very physical, hard-nosed player. In the past, he has tended to be nursing minor ailments and general pain come the postseason. Maybe 3-5 weeks off in the middle of the season isn't the worst thing in the world for him. Obviously he needs his shoulder to heal, but this might give the rest of his body a bit of a breather, and he'll be healthier (beyond the shoulder) when he comes back and perhaps healthier for the playoffs than in past years.

(2) Randle's absence will give some other players a chance to step up. I'm thinking chiefly of Achiuwa and Hart, but there may be others as well.

Bottom line this is very good news compared to concerns I had all day yesterday. I was worried he might be out for the season or at least for multiple months. Randle is a guy we absolutely need if we're to have a shot of pulling an upset against a top team in a playoff series.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 29, 2024, 04:59:22 PMGood news on Randle. Looks like his injury is on the lower end of the range of outcomes from a severity standpoint.

His prognosis is "weeks, not months."

While there is nothing good about any injury, his absence may have a couple of silver linings to it:

(1) Randle is a very physical, hard-nosed player. In the past, he has tended to be nursing minor ailments and general pain come the postseason. Maybe 3-5 weeks off in the middle of the season isn't the worst thing in the world for him. Obviously he needs his shoulder to heal, but this might give the rest of his body a bit of a breather, and he'll be healthier (beyond the shoulder) when he comes back and perhaps healthier for the playoffs than in past years.

(2) Randle's absence will give some other players a chance to step up. I'm thinking chiefly of Achiuwa and Hart, but there may be others as well.

Bottom line this is very good news compared to concerns I had all day yesterday. I was worried he might be out for the season or at least for multiple months. Randle is a guy we absolutely need if we're to have a shot of pulling an upset against a top team in a playoff series.

I've got the game on right now and will watch Achiuwa carefully. Seen as a "throw in" in the OG trade, he might be much more than that. He's young, drafted two years ago by Miami, then shipped to Toronto's bench. He hasn't been in a place where opportunity for him exists. Tonight he gets to start on the court of his dreams. I hope he shines

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 29, 2024, 07:06:40 PMI've got the game on right now and will watch Achiuwa carefully. Seen as a "throw in" in the OG trade, he might be much more than that. He's young, drafted two years ago by Miami, then shipped to Toronto's bench. He hasn't been in a place where opportunity for him exists. Tonight he gets to start on the court of his dreams. I hope he shines

Looks like OG is out with an injury now.

No Randle for a few weeks is one thing. But no OG and no Randle will make it harder to win games consistently. Hopefully OG is just a minor day to day thing.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 29, 2024, 04:59:22 PMGood news on Randle. Looks like his injury is on the lower end of the range of outcomes from a severity standpoint.

His prognosis is "weeks, not months."

While there is nothing good about any injury, his absence may have a couple of silver linings to it:

(1) Randle is a very physical, hard-nosed player. In the past, he has tended to be nursing minor ailments and general pain come the postseason. Maybe 3-5 weeks off in the middle of the season isn't the worst thing in the world for him. Obviously he needs his shoulder to heal, but this might give the rest of his body a bit of a breather, and he'll be healthier (beyond the shoulder) when he comes back and perhaps healthier for the playoffs than in past years.

(2) Randle's absence will give some other players a chance to step up. I'm thinking chiefly of Achiuwa and Hart, but there may be others as well.

Bottom line this is very good news compared to concerns I had all day yesterday. I was worried he might be out for the season or at least for multiple months. Randle is a guy we absolutely need if we're to have a shot of pulling an upset against a top team in a playoff series.

Wasnt that long away that virtually everyone wanted him traded.

Ugly game  :crazy:

Quote from: nb587 on January 29, 2024, 07:09:34 PMWasnt that long away that virtually everyone wanted him traded.

He was close to untradable then. Now might be a different story.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on July 02, 2023, 03:07:51 PMI like the fact that the Knicks are staying the course, developing young talent, and not getting fooled into thinking a superstar free agent is the final piece of the puzzle. Signing Donte DiVincenzo is not a "huge" signing, but he's a young guy with a couple of specific traits (tough defensive player who will nail threes if left alone)

It gives us a bit of a glut with a foursome of undersized wings (IQ, Grimes, Hart, and now Divincenzo) and now we need a backup PF, which I suspect will happen in the near future with a trade or FA signing. Randle is an All-Star PF, but he goes down for spells with injuries, and we don't have a reliable backup to him. That is my only concern

I'm just happy they aren't chasing big names that cost big money and are usually past their prime. We've got a solid group of players 25 and younger with their best days ahead of them. Let them develop, and let them all rise to the top of their game together in the next couple of years. That plan might be "low-key", but it's the "high road", and smartest thing they can do IMO...which is a long time coming

I watched them beat Miami and Hart stood out to me and Brunson of course

DiVincenzo looked great in college but was shooting very poorly the other night but love his energy and defense

Looked like Randle hurt his shoulder or wrist badly.  Hope he is ok

He carried the team for so long he deserves to be there when they finally arrive

Curious to see if they can sustain this in the playoffs

It's been a long time since the Knicks were relevent. That's what is needed to attract a superstar big man

Well, 3rd qtr certainly wasn't ugly. Knicks have really turned it on...especially Brunson

They are climbing the ladder...another rung

Upward and onward!


(https://i.postimg.cc/1RDXbN4n/nyk-1-30-24.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

14-2 in January.  Absolutely red hot even now without Randle.

The box score from tonight's game vs Jazz is a sight to behold

Divencenzo had a huge night

Knicks win, coupled with the 76'rs loss moves the Knicks up another rung

The Knicks are legit!

(https://i.postimg.cc/nrqBVwLm/nyk-1-31-24.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 31, 2024, 08:04:00 AMDivencenzo had a huge night

Knicks win, coupled with the 76'rs loss moves the Knicks up another rung

The Knicks are legit!

(https://i.postimg.cc/nrqBVwLm/nyk-1-31-24.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Sensational run!

Donte "The Big Ragu" DiVincenzo played like a superstar last night.

The Knicks are now only 1.5 back of the 2 seed, and they have a much better point differential than the Bucks. And they're totally depleted right now. Has there been a better 4-5 week run for this team since the 90s?

Seriously.

Nine in a row and a half game behind the Bucks. 

Randle doesn't seem more than. 3 weeks out. Good news. Remember, it's his right shoulder and he's left- handed..OG? Not as serious or we've would have known by now. Brunson deserves MVP consideration. He had the 2nd best +- rating in January in NBA history. Trade deadline coming up need depth.  :yes:

This is pure insanity what the Knicks are doing.  Brunson owns NYC right now.  OG is the glue to this defensive intensity.  How is Leon Rose doing now? 

What a show! Missing three starters and their current 6th man...no problem

If ever there was a "feel good night at the Garden", it was last night. The Knicks fought like dogs from the opening tip off to the final buzzer...and spent the entire game behind...but they kept fighting with an attitude that they just will not ever give up and will fight like hell to the last second. Brunson getting floored with a punch to the eye (no call???). Picks himself up with only the ability to see out of one eye, goes the length of the floor for a basket plus one to reclaim the lead  :o

Great line from the NY Post this morning: "this game (is)...easily accessible to study and admire, because it summarizes this team best. In the NBA, teams shrug their shoulders and accept the probability and inevitability of losing all the time. Right now, across a month and a day, the Knicks have simply chosen not to."

What a great night - this is a long time coming for Knicks' fans...they are definitely the talk of the town and the whole city is excited  :notworthy:  :cheers:

I don't know how many here are old enough to remember the Knicks of the 90s but there are some interesting parallels between the teams.  When the Garden is rocking, there is no place like it and when the Knicks are relevant, NY is electric again.  It's been so many years wasted with pretty much no reason to watch this team that it feels wonderful to have a reason to check in on them.  My only concern now is that I don't see how they can keep up this effort until the playoffs and through the playoffs.  I'd much rather they hit this stride in April.  But, as a long suffering fan, winning like this is magical. 

Quote from: nb587 on February 02, 2024, 09:49:54 AMI don't know how many here are old enough to remember the Knicks of the 90s but there are some interesting parallels between the teams.  When the Garden is rocking, there is no place like it and when the Knicks are relevant, NY is electric again.  It's been so many years wasted with pretty much no reason to watch this team that it feels wonderful to have a reason to check in on them.  My only concern now is that I don't see how they can keep up this effort until the playoffs and through the playoffs.  I'd much rather they hit this stride in April.  But, as a long suffering fan, winning like this is magical. 

You are spot on . Not only do I remember the Knicks of the 90ds I was going to Knick games in the 50s .

A couple things stick out to me about this team

1) winning changes an athlete's mentality and approach to the game, and it is "catching" across the whole team and they BELIEVE they can win every game
2) excitement is also "catching" and every player is excited now. You can't buy excitement, that comes from within

And that excitement carries over to the fans...man, did you hear that crowd at the Garden last night??? Friggin crazy. The last time I saw a MSG audience get that crazy was the 6 overtime game with Syracuse beating UConn in the Big East Tournament. I think last night was even far above that. New Yorkers are psyched...almost insanely so. Wicked good fun

:nanner:  :boldblue:  :dance:  :Chestram:

I LOVE THIS TEAM!!

They remind me of the late 60 early 70's Knicks!

DAWGS!!!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

At the moment, Rose is looking like one of the top GMs in the league. Obviously they haven't gotten out of the second round of the playoffs under his watch, so I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but it's really incredible the moves he has made since taking over.

Look at this starting lineup from the 2019/20 season, right before he took over:

Elfrid Payton
RJ Barrett
Marcus Morris
Julius Randle
Mitch Robinson

Off the bench: Frank Nikilitina, Kevin Knox, Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson.

That wasn't that long ago.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on February 02, 2024, 02:08:05 PMI LOVE THIS TEAM!!

They remind me of the late 60 early 70's Knicks!

DAWGS!!!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You love the fight.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 02, 2024, 04:20:38 PMAt the moment, Rose is looking like one of the top GMs in the league. Obviously they haven't gotten out of the second round of the playoffs under his watch, so I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but it's really incredible the moves he has made since taking over.

Look at this starting lineup from the 2019/20 season, right before he took over:

Elfrid Payton
RJ Barrett
Marcus Morris
Julius Randle
Mitch Robinson

Off the bench: Frank Nikilitina, Kevin Knox, Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson.

That wasn't that long ago.

Ultimately turned Morris (expiring deal that year, I believe) and RJ into OG, also dumping RJs contract along the way. Pretty impressive upgrade. Most impressive to me though is that this is truly a team--they have had a vision, acquired players to fit that despite some disdain (e.g. Brunson and Divincenzo), and seen it through.

Knicks in prime time!! :what: Is this real?  :doh: 

Hope the Garden factor doesn't  elevates Le Bron like so many other stars past.

Quote from: spiderblue43 on February 03, 2024, 08:27:52 PMKnicks in prime time!! :what: Is this real?  :doh: 

Hope the Garden factor doesn't  elevates Le Bron like so many other stars past.

LeBron loves playing there. Most stars do (as you noted).

Thud. Lakers really took advantage of the paint all night long and wore the Knicks down...simply made someone other than Brunson beat them. Cant be surprised. Get healthier guys!

Great run, obviously it wasn't going to go on forever. Lakers deserved to win tonight, and the bottom line is our streak was not going to be sustainable with guys like Precious Achiuwa and Josh Hart having to be the ones to take the big shots in the fourth quarter.

It had to end at some point. No team can be missing three starters, and their first man off the bench (Grimes) and win every game. They put up a good fight, but towards the waning minutes, the defense let up after too many fouls mounted and the Lakers took advantage. It was a good run. No NBA team can win every single game...not statistically possible

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 04, 2024, 07:19:25 AMIt had to end at some point. No team can be missing three starters, and their first man off the bench (Grimes) and win every game. They put up a good fight, but towards the waning minutes, the defense let up after too many fouls mounted and the Lakers took advantage. It was a good run. No NBA team can win every single game...not statistically possible

Agreed 100%. The Lakers played a great defensive game, and we were simply asking too much from bench/role players. I think the group we have now will be pretty formidable whenever we have Randle/Robinson/OG all on the floor together. The group right now is completely different.

The loss stung a little as we're back in the four seed with the Cavs winning last night, but it is what it is.

The good news is the next three games are still home games, and they don't have to play again until Tuesday against the 18-31 Grizzlies. Hopefully they'll have OG back for that, although I don't know that. Not sure what the deal is with Grimes.

Randle is going to be out for several more weeks, but we need to thank our lucky stars with him. That injury easily could have been season-ending.

Yeah, the loss did sting; however, it was absolutely going to happen sooner or later...like baseball, you never win them all

The Lakers were smart in that they did something no other team has done...they smothered Bronson with a perpetual double team and harassed him all game. They were not going to let him beat them. Yet he still put up 36 pts - incredible. Normally, they double JR and try to take him out of the game. Once Brunson and Divy got 4 fouls, the backcourt was in trouble, even though Deuce did his best to make up the difference. But I think the biggest difference was that Anthony Davis dominated the front court, not only in rebounding, but blocking shots and making assists. He was a monster last night. And Lebron was Lebron - clutch shooting

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 04, 2024, 08:58:32 AMYeah, the loss did sting; however, it was absolutely going to happen sooner or later...like baseball, you never win them all

The Lakers were smart in that they did something no other team has done...they smothered Bronson with a perpetual double team and harassed him all game. They were not going to let him beat them. Yet he still put up 36 pts - incredible. Normally, they double JR and try to take him out of the game. Once Brunson and Divy got 4 fouls, the backcourt was in trouble, even though Deuce did his best to make up the difference. But I think the biggest difference was that Anthony Davis dominated the front court, not only in rebounding, but blocking shots and making assists. He was a monster last night. And Lebron was Lebron - clutch shooting

Yup. Their three point guy also hit some huge ones late in the game. They did bottle Brunson up in the fourth quarter some, although he still had a very good game overall. 36 points on about 50% shooting and 10 assists. For me the killer was definitely Davis in the paint (as you said) and also just that we had bench players playing focal point roles with the game on the line in the fourth quarter.

The Lakers really showed up for this game. They came with an agenda, and they executed. We didn't have the horses last night. Had we had even just two of the three starters we're missing I think the outcome probably would have been different.

Brunson only had one foul last night btw.

QuoteBrunson only had one foul last night btw.

This morning's NY Post said both he and Divy had 4 fouls  :-??

I do recall seeing Brunson get called for a foul. I was flipping back and forth between the Knicks' game and the Syracuse/Wake Forest game (ugly, ugly, ugly  :sick: ). I watched most of the Knicks' game because I couldn't stomach much of the SU game. A bad night for this Knicks/SU basketball fan  :(

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 04, 2024, 10:02:05 AMThis morning's NY Post said both he and Divy had 4 fouls  :-??

I do recall seeing Brunson get called for a foul. I was flipping back and forth between the Knicks' game and the Syracuse/Wake Forest game (ugly, ugly, ugly  :sick: ). I watched most of the Knicks' game because I couldn't stomach much of the SU game. A bad night for this Knicks/SU basketball fan  :(

Pretty sure DD fouled out and Brunson had one. ESPN box score says that, and I struggle to see how Brunson would have played 45 minutes if he were in legit foul trouble. I watched much of the game and don't recall more than the one foul with him. Anyway - it's obviously not important at this point. The outcome is the same either way haha.

I read that the Lakers double team on Brunson was to have Lebron take away his backside and strong side, force him to look left and/or go forward, where Davis was given the duty to personally stop any floaters or layups that Brunson usually gets. With Randle back in the game, they can't do that or Randle would pump in 50 pts, if left one-on-one
Credit to Brunson for still getting some points in the paint and still getting 36 pts, 10 assists, and 6 rebounds overall - the man is a warrior on the court  :what: 

Actually, a pretty good strategy to do whatever it takes to stop Brunson right now while the Knicks are shorthanded. Imagine how many points he would have had if not targeted by two of the best players in the NBA. We need Randle back to take the pressure off Brunson...and though he tries, he cannot take down an entire team by himself...Lord knows he tries...and sometimes does!

Statistically speaking, they were due for a loss and considering three starters are out, as well as Grimes, it should not be shocking they finally failed to pull off a win. Missing Grimes hurt because he can shoot the three along with a tenacious defense, which would have rested Hart or DDV for a spell and add some points. The Knicks fought hard right to the end (you can't ask more of your team than that), but you could see that they ran out of gas in the waning minutes

Another checkmark in the win column (and the Buck's lost, so the Knicks move into 3rd place), but could have become the worst game of the year as Brunson rolled his ankle and had to leave the game. Hopefully, he'll be back quicker than some of the other starters. Still waiting for an update. He was on fire last night until the injury

Thankfully, Divo took over the game single-handedly and pumped in 32 points, 5 RB, 5 assists, 3 steals, and blocked shots. What a smart pickup by Thibs
Divo is "money" as a shooting guard  :what:  :notworthy:

Supposedly, Brunson walked out of the arena last night walking without a limp and without a crutch or a walking boot. 

As great as this team has been for the past several weeks, if you were to remove Brunson from the equation (along with the other three starters who are out), you'd be left with a pretty weak team.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 07, 2024, 05:47:23 PMAs great as this team has been for the past several weeks, if you were to remove Brunson from the equation (along with the other three starters who are out), you'd be left with a pretty weak team.

Well...Divo is turning into an all-star shooting guard (and he plays tough defense and shoots the lights out...he's money); and Deuce has grown hair on his back (cut the mop on top of his head) and plays tough "d" and has found his shot; Hart and iHart bring excitement; Grimes is a defensive warrior out there, and Ochiuwa has looked like a steal. Our second team actually looks as good as any second team in the NBA right now

Ideally, all the starters are back by playoff time. Tomorrow's the trade dead-line, I expect another pickup. We'll see

The Athletic is reporting that the Knicks traded with the Pistons.  Knicks get Bogdonovich and Burks giving up Grimes, Fournier, Flynn and 2 2nd round picks. I think s good deal for Knicks not giving ip a 1st

Agreed...this is a heist! Grimes was gone anyway, and the others were never going to play or only see the court except during garbage time. Except Flynn, but he was not a long term solution on this team anyway. And we didn't give up any firsts...friggin amazing!!!

We've added firepower (Bogdanović and Burks are both 40% 3pt shooters and hustle on defense). They are a little older than preferred (not they were ever meant to be long term), but they bring a veteran presence to a team making a run for the title this year. This move gives some real credibility and extra firepower to the bench. It also shows me that Thibs believes in Deuce as the backup PG

Gotta give credit where credit is due...I tip my hat to Leon Rose and Thibs

I think I'm really going to like Bogdanović

Against the Knicks a few games ago. Reminds me of a bigger Brunson with his easy falling back jumper. He will bring offensive firepower when he's on the floor. And just beyond the Knicks' youth movement, he's still only 31 yrs old. There's still a lot of tread on the tire

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 08, 2024, 12:35:04 PMAgreed...this is a heist! Grimes was gone anyway, and the others were never going to play or only see the court except during garbage time. Except Flynn, but he was not a long term solution on this team anyway. And we didn't give up any firsts...friggin amazing!!!

We've added firepower (Bogdanović and Burks are both 40% 3pt shooters and hustle on defense). They are a little older than preferred (not they were ever meant to be long term), but they bring a veteran presence to a team making a run for the title this year. This move gives some real credibility and extra firepower to the bench. It also shows me that Thibs believes in Deuce as the backup PG

Gotta give credit where credit is due...I tip my hat to Leon Rose and Thibs

Assuming no injuries, hopefully, Burkes will back up Brunson at the point.  Part of his value is multiple roles.  I think Duece will be a bench warmer unless the game is a blowout.

The interesting question for me is the lack of defensive attitude and skill Bogdanovic has shown throughout his career.  The Knicks now is as good as any team in the league.  Look how Thibs refused to use Fournier. 

https://twitter.com/KnicksMuse/status/1755700086917509360

https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA/status/1755656769580195863

This trade is about continuing to win while Randle is out.  When Randle returns, what happens with Bogs?  Goes to bench?

Quote from: Philosophers on February 08, 2024, 06:28:09 PMThis trade is about continuing to win while Randle is out.  When Randle returns, what happens with Bogs?  Goes to bench?

He'll be on the bench since Achuiwa already has proven to be Randall's backup since he's been out. Bogs will be one of the first players off the bench and will primarily rotate between SF and SG...and perhaps spell Achuiwa, but he's not really a PF

Right now, Josh Hart is the starting SF since OG is also out and has been. Hart brings energy and tenacity, but he's not a scorer. I suspect Bogs will split time with him to boost the score and also come in to spell Divo now and then, to give him a breather. Bogs is a scoring machine...as is Burks, who will rotate between the two guards as a backup to Brunson and Divo. Burks will probably pair with Deuce in the backcourt when 2nd team is on the floor

(https://i.postimg.cc/d0PW419Z/asdf.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Like I said, with the injuries we already had, if you take out Brunson on top of that, you're left with a team that isn't going to be very competitive with NBA teams. You saw that tonight.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 08, 2024, 11:33:32 PMLike I said, with the injuries we already had, if you take out Brunson on top of that, you're left with a team that isn't going to be very competitive with NBA teams. You saw that tonight.

Yeah, all I could think as I watched the game is just how much they miss Brunson. Deuce played well, but he doesn't orchestrate the offense the way Brunson does. Brunson sees the whole court and has an offensive plan in mind, and he makes it work. It's not something that comes with great athleticism, but rather the mental accuman that one needs to conduct 5 guys with the ONLY goal - to win. Bird had it (always scanning the court and tracking teammates out of his sight line) and forced wins. Brunson has it. Not sure I can explain what I am trying to say, but I've seen it my whole life watching basketball. There are super-athletic players that dazzle, and have a long, fluid, basketball player body, but there's a different type that doesn't even look like an extreme athlete who just has a mindset to conduct wins and even force wins and will do whatever it takes to win. Brunson has it. Deuce doesn't...and I like Deuce. Brunson is irreplaceable on this team. It is his innate nature to lead, and leadership doesn't come by fancy athleticism...hard to explain

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 08, 2024, 11:46:36 PMYeah, all I could think as I watched the game is just how much they miss Brunson. Deuce played well, but he doesn't orchestrate the offense the way Brunson does. Brunson sees the whole court and has an offensive plan in mind, and he makes it work. It's not something that comes with great athleticism, but rather the mental accuman that one needs to conduct 5 guys with the ONLY goal - to win. Bird had it (always scanning the court and tracking teammates out of his sight line) and forced wins. Brunson has it. Not sure I can explain what I am trying to say, but I've seen it my whole life watching basketball. There are super-athletic players that dazzle, and have a long, fluid, basketball player body, but there's a different type that doesn't even look like an extreme athlete who just has a mindset to conduct wins and even force wins and will do whatever it takes to win. Brunson has it. Deuce doesn't...and I like Deuce. Brunson is irreplaceable on this team. It is his innate nature to lead, and leadership doesn't come by fancy athleticism...hard to explain

In the playoffs, and probably the run to the playoffs, Thibs will shorten the bench. Randle's backup is OG and Bogs will play mostly small forward and 2 of these 3 will be on the court when everyone is healthy.  I dont think we'll see very much of Achiewa or Duece as we get to crunch time

Funniest line I've heard from talking heads on TV was, "who would have ever thought the smartest team in the NBA would be the Knicks?", followed by laughter

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 09, 2024, 09:00:39 AMFunniest line I've heard from talking heads on TV was, "who would have ever thought the smartest team in the NBA would be the Knicks?", followed by laughter

The best part of the Knicks moves is that while they clearly upgraded their goals from making the playoffs to going very deep inthe playoffs, they've done so with minimal impact for the future.  In fact, their short terms moves probably made their long term moves way more likely.  They're in a much better position to acquire the big star next year than they were at the start of the season.  Usually, the short term moves come at the expense of the long term.

How good has Deuce McBride been of late? Wow. Talk about a breakout season.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 24, 2024, 08:32:06 AMHow good has Deuce McBride been of late? Wow. Talk about a breakout season.

He sure takes the sting out of losing IQ. He is exactly what Thibs expects from a player, and unlike Grimes, IQ, and RJ, Deuce is a soldier who does exactly what the boss tells him to do...play defense like a pit bull, and know when and how to score. And he's learned from Brunson how to do that step back floater shot that enables small guys to shoot over the big guys.

Deuce is a gym rat who spends hours shooting threes from all over the court, pretending he's covered. His ability to score, whilst playing incredible defense...is everything Thibs expects out of him. And Deuce is not a prima donna who complains about anything. If he's on the bench, he cheers on the team and won't complain. If he's asked to play the entire game, he plays "full-throttle" every second he's in. He's a hustler and a great team player, with basketball sense. Gotta love the guy

Now is Leon Rose doing a good job?

He is building a team with max flexibility in the future.

Quote from: Philosophers on March 24, 2024, 10:08:26 AMNow is Leon Rose doing a good job?

He is building a team with max flexibility in the future.

I think Thibs has more to do with building this team than Rose, Rose just agrees and trusts in Thibs

When the entire team is healthy, the backups are: Deuce, Josh Hart, Bogdanović, Precious, Hartinstein. That's a great second team, so flexibility up the ass. That's better than average in the NBA and pretty much what they've been playing lately, except Brunson and DD are still starting

When healthy, the starters are Brunson, Randle, OG, DiVincenzo, and Mitch, which is a great lineup that can challenge for the championship

Makes one wonder what it'd be like if the whole team was 100% healthy...also wonder who is that magic "missing piece"? And if we get that missing piece, who goes?  :-??

Quote from: Philosophers on March 24, 2024, 10:08:26 AMNow is Leon Rose doing a good job?

He is building a team with max flexibility in the future.

I have liked the job he is doing for years. I loved the way he stockpiled picks and didn't let himself get bullied into a trade for Mitchell by Danny Ainge the way Isiah Thomas or Donnie Walsh might have done. As far as I'm concerned this is the best Knicks team since the 90s, and the Knicks are being run better than they have been since the 90s. The injuries have been very tough this year, but they have handled the challenge well.

They really need to try to get that three seed.

Anyone think that Deuce has been influenced by Brunson? I do. I see him making the same plays and using the same shooting style, but also in playing fierce from the second he steps on the court. Having a JB2 is a good thing  :yes:

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on March 24, 2024, 01:12:27 PMAnyone think that Deuce has been influenced by Brunson? I do. I see him making the same plays and using the same shooting style, but also in playing fierce from the second he steps on the court. Having a JB2 is a good thing  :yes:

I think that's very possible. If you listen to Brunson talk, he sounds like an intelligent and pretty decent guy, so I'm sure it is in his personality to want to help younger teammates get better. Also, even if Brunson weren't going out of his way to mentor Deuce, for Deuce to just be able to practice with and observe Brunson everyday is additive.

Deuce is playing like a starting caliber point or off guard lately. It's absolutely great to see.

I also saw recently that there is confirmed optimism around Robinson being back very soon. The other two guys are a little murkier. He is what I saw. This was written two days ago.

https://theknickswall.com/latest-injury-news-on-three-knicks-starters/

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 24, 2024, 12:18:35 PMI have liked the job he is doing for years. I loved the way he stockpiled picks and didn't let himself get bullied into a trade for Mitchell by Danny Ainge the way Isiah Thomas or Donnie Walsh might have done. As far as I'm concerned this is the best Knicks team since the 90s, and the Knicks are being run better than they have been since the 90s. The injuries have been very tough this year, but they have handled the challenge well.

They really need to try to get that three seed.

Agree and well said.

Mitch is back, even thought he didn't start. Knicks are on fire and put up their highest point total last night against Toronto 9145 pts). Deuce continues his roll. Kid has got game! Started...played 40 minutes...29pts (9/14 3pts 64.2%)...7 assists...1 steal, and 3 RBs

(https://i.postimg.cc/vH3sr2nD/zzknicks.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PxWGPShX/zzknicks-standings.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The more I think about it, the more I'm concerned about Randle. This injury has been a black hole.

My concern isn't so much that he won't come back this year. I'm pretty sure he will. My concern is more that he'll come back and not be the player he was before the injury, earlier this year. I worry about him being disruptive to the flow of this team by trying to do too much when he physically can't.

I hope they don't bring him back unless they're 100% confident he has no lingering effects from this injury. A dislocated shoulder is no joke. That's not something you just "tough out" if it's on your shooting arm, which I think it is. Randle is a guy who forces shots, handles the ball more than he should, and generally takes chances. When he's on, he's dominant. But when he's not, he can really hurt the team.

I just hope they manage this situation well. To me, OG is the more important player and the one they need most. They need a guy who can D up on the dominant wings in the east, like Jason Tatum and Giannis. That's OG. Not Randle. The Knicks have enough offense without Randle. Plus OG can add some offense when needed too.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 06:57:42 PMThe more I think about it, the more I'm concerned about Randle. This injury has been a black hole.

My concern isn't so much that he won't come back this year. I'm pretty sure he will. My concern is more that he'll come back and not be the player he was before the injury, earlier this year. I worry about him being disruptive to the flow of this team by trying to do too much when he physically can't.

I hope they don't bring him back unless they're 100% confident he has no lingering effects from this injury. A dislocated shoulder is no joke. That's not something you just "tough out" if it's on your shooting arm, which I think it is. Randle is a guy who forces shots, handles the ball more than he should, and generally takes chances. When he's on, he's dominant. But when he's not, he can really hurt the team.

I just hope they manage this situation well. To me, OG is the more important player and the one they need most. They need a guy who can D up on the dominant wings in the east, like Jason Tatum and Giannis. That's OG. Not Randle. The Knicks have enough offense without Randle. Plus OG can odd some offense when needed too.

100% agree

The Athletic is reporting that Randle is going to have surgery.   No word on OG.  While I agree that OG's return is a bigger deal, it would have been nice to see Randle play.  I dont see the Knicks winning many playoff games without OG.

Quote from: nb587 on April 04, 2024, 05:02:47 PMThe Athletic is reporting that Randle is going to have surgery.  No word on OG.  While I agree that OG's return is a bigger deal, it would have been nice to see Randle play.  I dont see the Knicks winning many playoff games without OG.

Yeah, injuries have really been rough since January. The second team is good...real good in fact, but probably not good enough to go deep into the playoffs. Teams are now swarming Brunson and being "extra physical", perhaps to take him out as well. Poor strategy if you ask me...but no one's asking, so there's that  :-??

A good article in the Athletic yesterday explaining that the trades they made this year have set them up for long term success, but short term, injuries have been killing them

While the Randle situation has been really unfortunate, as stated in a recent post, I really think the more important guy is OG. If they can get him back, while I don't think they're championship material, I wouldn't rule out a run to the ECF. If both OG and Randle are out, forget it, they're not getting out of the second round barring a miracle.

I'm not sure what the situation is with Robinson but I'm not overly optimistic, as he just seems delicate in general. And while I do think Robinson adds value, him being out is less of an issue because Hartenstein has proven to be a pretty solid fill-in that can take on real minutes.

The injuries this team got hit with this year were astonishing. This was like a NYG type season with injuries. It's usually not this bad in the NBA. Guys miss time but usually come back in 3-4 weeks.

I don't know what the latest is with OG, but he's really the key IMO. If they can get him back in good shape, they can maybe make some noise with what they have. If not, then forget it.

i don't know how to attach the podcast.  The latest Bill Simmons podcast has a very good conversation about the current status and future of the Knicks.  It's the 2nd subject (right after the conversation about the Diggs trade).

Quote from: nb587 on April 05, 2024, 11:37:26 AMi don't know how to attach the podcast.  The latest Bill Simmons podcast has a very good conversation about the current status and future of the Knicks.  It's the 2nd subject (right after the conversation about the Diggs trade).

You have to sign up for the podcast to listen, but it's free https://open.spotify.com/episode/11pONWQMJ313ZD5BmZEN63?go=1&sp_cid=d336d6c198a48fc6b8e7f5d5d4c9ccab&nd=1&dlsi=a2f776c866774163

Brunson with 30 points and 11 assists tonight. Another day at the office for him as the Knicks move into a tie for the two seed with one game left.


Brunson is an elite superstar who is playing like a league MVP. The Knicks got such a steal on him. Funnily enough, there were those  who claimed the Knicks were overpaying for a "nice" but not great player when they signed him. He has exceeded those fans' expectations in a major, major way. The guy is just tremendous.

I am beyond pleased with this year's Knicks team. I don't know how far they will go, but this team easily could have folded and mailed it in when 60% of the starting five all went down around the same time with multi-month, serious injuries. But they didn't. They hung in there, battled, and now they're in the tie for the two seed in the East with one game to go in the regular season. That's seriously solid stuff.

Folks can talk all they want about Aaron Judge, Juan Soto, Aaron Rodgers, etc, but the one athlete playing on a NY pro team who owns the city now is Jalen Brunson.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 13, 2024, 08:32:18 AMFolks can talk all they want about Aaron Judge, Juan Soto, Aaron Rodgers, etc, but the one athlete playing on a NY pro team who owns the city now is Jalen Brunson.

Thibs had zeroed in on Brunson long before he became a Knick. I don't think any fan expected Brunson to be the stud PG he has become (NY Post calls him, "the BEST PG in the Eastern Division" - pretty high praise).

The question that sits in the back of my mind is: Is Thibs as surprised as the rest of us?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 04, 2024, 07:06:16 PMWhile the Randle situation has been really unfortunate, as stated in a recent post, I really think the more important guy is OG. If they can get him back, while I don't think they're championship material, I wouldn't rule out a run to the ECF. If both OG and Randle are out, forget it, they're not getting out of the second round barring a miracle.

I'm not sure what the situation is with Robinson but I'm not overly optimistic, as he just seems delicate in general. And while I do think Robinson adds value, him being out is less of an issue because Hartenstein has proven to be a pretty solid fill-in that can take on real minutes.

The injuries this team got hit with this year were astonishing. This was like a NYG type season with injuries. It's usually not this bad in the NBA. Guys miss time but usually come back in 3-4 weeks.

I don't know what the latest is with OG, but he's really the key IMO. If they can get him back in good shape, they can maybe make some noise with what they have. If not, then forget it.

I totally agree with OG's impact on this team.

Now that he's healthy and MitchRob is getting some minutes, it actually looks like a more functional team in terms of ball movement and defensive spacing than it did earlier in the year.

That's a testament to the players and coaching. I am probably in the minority but I believe that keeping their foot on the gas will serve them well in the playoffs no matter their seed.

They remind me o little of the 2010 Giants, in terms of their underdog and NEXT MAN UP mentality.

We finally have a team with an outstanding core and culture and an attractive FA destination.

To all of that I only have one thing to say: Dolan, keep doing what you're doing = NOTHING!


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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on April 13, 2024, 09:33:38 AMI totally agree with OG's impact on this team.

Now that he's healthy and MitchRob is getting some minutes, it actually looks like a more functional team in terms of ball movement and defensive spacing than it did earlier in the year.

That's a testament to the players and coaching. I am probably in the minority but I believe that keeping their foot on the gas will serve them well in the playoffs no matter their seed.

They remind me o little of the 2010 Giants, in terms of their underdog and NEXT MAN UP mentality.

We finally have a team with an outstanding core and culture and an attractive FA destination.

To all of that I only have one thing to say: Dolan, keep doing what you're doing = NOTHING!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I dislike Dolan just as much as the next guy, but it's hard not to throw some credit his way for the Leon Rose hire.

I would also add that his other team, the NY Rangers, currently have the best record in the NHL with the regular season about to end. The Rangers were also in the Stanley Cup Finals less than a decade ago.

I can think of owners who have gotten way worse results with their teams over the past decade, and you don't have to look very far to find them.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 13, 2024, 10:17:39 AMI dislike Dolan just as much as the next guy, but it's hard not to throw some credit his way for the Leon Rose hire.

I would also add that his other team, the NY Rangers, currently have the best record in the NHL with the regular season about to end. The Rangers were also in the Stanley Cup Finals less than a decade ago.

I can think of owners who have gotten way worse results with their teams over the past decade, and you don't have to look very far to find them.

More than fair points.

My point was that he's always been able to attract FO & Coaching talent. His downfall has often been his willingness to step out of the way and let them do their jobs.

Recently it appears, he's done a much better job of staying in his lane.


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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on April 13, 2024, 11:57:36 AMMore than fair points.

My point was that he's always been able to attract FO & Coaching talent. His downfall has often been his willingness to step out of the way and let them do their jobs.

Recently it appears, he's done a much better job of staying in his lane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Fair enough. I hope that that is indeed the case, because for the first time in literally decades, I'm very happy with the way the team is being run.

50 wins and the 2nd seed....Brunson scores 40 to insure the victory in OT.

This team is more fun to watch than any version  I've seen in years.


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Great win today. The Bulls really showed up to play, and I'm sorry - that team isn't bad at all. They gave the Knicks all they could handle. Brunson was just too much though. Man was he good.

Funnily enough, the Knicks drew a much tougher first round opponent than they would have if they lost, but no question I'd still rather be the two seed. To know you won't have to play anyone in the East on the road except the Celtics is huge.

Good start for the Knicks overall, although it was a mixed bag. They were pretty sloppy at times handling the ball on the perimeter, their shooting was mediocre at best overall (Brunson was less than stellar), and they really struggled to stop Maxey, often basically watching him slash past them to the hoop.

However, they made a number of clutch threes late in the game (Hart and OG), and they dominated big time on the glass. Those were the differences in the game to me. This was never going to be an easy series, as the Sixers with Embiid are a 2-3 seed caliber team. Home edge definitely matters though, and I'd like to think our Nova connection will help us in Philly.

I'm not sure what the deal is with Embiid health-wise but he definitely looked a little banged up despite playing very well. I think his knee is not 100%. The more gimpy he is, the better it is for us obviously, but this team has other guys. Lowry is a total pest and a really effective player. Maxey is a stud. Oubre is effective (5 steals). This team has some guys besides Embiid.

I really want the Knicks to take game two. I'm optimistic as even though they won last night, there were a lot of things they can clean up, so if they play a cleaner game in game two they may be able to win more convincingly. Getting up 2-0 would the pressure off a bit and would enable them to really only have to win one on the road and still be in a commanding position. Let's hope they can manage to do it.

The whole game plan of the Sixers was to take Brunson out of the game...and they did. However, the bench came to the rescue and played like superstars. Still shaking my head over the rise of the Deuce. And Mitch played like a man possessed last night. Great win. Watching that game was hard on the nerves though  :ohno:

Thought this was apropos

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1781849879351832581

My heart is pounding. If I'm not here tomorrow, I probably stroked out. I still can't believe they pulled this game out. Down 4 or 5 with 28 seconds left and they score 8 points for a miracle finish. Still can't believe it!

Madison Square Garden is going insane - Devo the hero

Knicks 104 - Sixers 101 friggin WOW

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 22, 2024, 10:25:37 PMMy heart is pounding. If I'm not here tomorrow, I probably stroked out. I still can't believe they pulled this game out. Down 4 or 5 with 28 seconds left and they score 8 points for a miracle finish. Still can't believe it!

Madison Square Garden is going insane - Devo the hero

Knicks 104 - Sixers 101 friggin WOW

Absolutely insane. Just sheer bedlam at the Mecca. Unreal win.

Knicks found a way to overcome another unconscionably bad performance by Brunson. I don't know what his problem is but they're going nowhere if he doesn't figure this out quickly.

Enjoying this win tonight though. Absolutely tremendous stuff. This team has some magic going.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 22, 2024, 10:35:18 PMAbsolutely insane. Just sheer bedlam at the Mecca. Unreal win.

Knicks found a way to overcome another unconscionably bad performance by Brunson. I don't know what his problem is but they're going nowhere if he doesn't figure this out quickly.

Enjoying this win tonight though. Absolutely tremendous stuff. This team has some magic going.

You know maybe it is good they are finding others to pick it up when brunson is down.

They drape Brunson and are extra physical with him. Their entire strategy has been to take Brunson out anyway, anyhow. It's amazing he made 24 points. And yeah, it's toughening up the rest of the team. They are true scrappers...and they're young and only going to get better in time. They go to battle when they get on the court. No team wants to play them because they know it's going to be war

I grew up a Knick fan, but lost interest in them, and the NBA in general, at some point after Ewing retired. It's nice to hear that they're doing well though. The Garden is so exciting when it's rocking.  =D>

The building shook like there was an earthquake and the sound level so high, it was impossible to hear anyone talk. Ben Stiller, Carmelo Anthony, and a host of others screaming at the top of their lungs and high-fiving...it was bedlam

There are moments in sports history one never forgets (David Tyree's helmet catch, Kirk Gibson's HR to win the game hobbling around the bases when he could barely walk, the "pine tar" bat incident with George Brett, Bill Buckner's ground ball whiff, the 1980 Olympics when the US knocked off Russia, etc.), and last  night was one of them...down 5 with 27 seconds left in the game, then pump out 8 pts in seconds
 :jawdrop:  :dance:  :cheers:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1782602005867098395

What a win today!! Wow!

Just riveting stuff. The Knicks' dominated defensively and dominated on the boards yet again. They completely out-toughed the Sixers today. Amazing that they were able to dominate physically to that extent without both Mitch and Randle.

Brunson was ridiculous today. What a superstar this guy is. Fans often chant "MVP!" without putting enough unbiased thought into it, but I'd like to know what NBA player on a good team means more to his team than this guy.

Great win for the Knicks as Brunson just torched whoever tried to cover him. Put a fork in Philly...their done

Quote from: Section 101 Steve on April 28, 2024, 04:20:38 PMGreat win for the Knicks as Brunson just torched whoever tried to cover him. Put a fork in Philly...their done

Whoaaah.... careful with the jinxes!

Gotta love this:


https://twitter.com/MarcMalusis/status/1784685382677790928

Don't touch the money!!! One more to go .but Knick fans were a big part of the win too. Players surely got a lift watching half the building MSG South!

I'm lost for words...Knicks have so much heart  =D>  =D>  =D>  :dance:
Could this be the year there are actually two ticker tape parades on Broadway?  :what:

I think it's a possibility...wouldn't that be a hoot?  :worship:

Brutal loss which pretty much gave back the wild comeback win the Knicks had.  Just a terrible set of possessions to end regulation. 

Choke job by the coach..who could have called time out..Mitch Robinson for defending a 3..and foul shooting. They Appled up. :boooo:

That was disastrous last night. One gaffe after another. The worst for me was not fouling the Sixers when we were up by three with about 10 seconds left. Foul Maxey, put him on the line, and then get fouled yourself on the inbound and take two shots with a chance to be up by a minimum of four points with just a few seconds left on the clock. I can't fathom how you can allow a three point attempt in that situation.

And to add insult to injury the nba just announced with their 2 minute report that maxey's 4 point play should not have counted as he walked before the foul and shot. What a collossal screw up by the refs!!  :boooo:  :boooo: Where do the Knicks go to get their win they got robbed out of back?

I'm not sure my heart can take anymore of these games...afraid I'll stroke out or my heart gives out. Regardless, they won again in the last few seconds of chaos and craziness  <:-P  =D>

Sick game. I need a cardiologist appointment after that one. Every game is like this.

It is so good to see MSG electric and loud again.  Brunson scored but all contributed a lot.  O with his two steals toward the end.  Di with his last three.

That offensive foul call at the end was pretty terrible. You have aggressive playoff basketball being played for 47 minutes+, all for the refs to decide the game at the end.

It was such a great back and forth battle and great game. Just wish the players could have determined the outcome.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on May 07, 2024, 11:41:33 AMThat offensive foul call at the end was pretty terrible. You have aggressive playoff basketball being played for 47 minutes+, all for the refs to decide the game at the end.

It was such a great back and forth battle and great game. Just wish the players could have determined the outcome.

The call stood up to the challenge. Refs make mistakes all the time in real time, but it's hard to believe an NBA playoff ref didn't understand the NBA rule book when he was watching the play frame-by-frame on a close up replay. If an infraction was not committed there, it seems extremely likely the ref would have seen that in the replay and overturned it.

As for willfully allowing a clear infraction just because it's the final minute or two of a close game, that's a matter of fan opinion and a controversial subject. I understand the spirit of that argument, but it's a slippery slope if you just start allowing anything to happen just because it's late. Which rules should get enforced and which shouldn't?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 07, 2024, 07:37:11 PMThe call stood up to the challenge. Refs make mistakes all the time in real time, but it's hard to believe an NBA playoff ref didn't understand the NBA rule book when he was watching the play frame-by-frame on a close up replay. If an infraction was not committed there, it seems extremely likely the ref would have seen that in the replay and overturned it.

As for willfully allowing a clear infraction just because it's the final minute or two of a close game, that's a matter of fan opinion and a controversial subject. I understand the spirit of that argument, but it's a slippery slope if you just start allowing anything to happen just because it's late. Which rules should get enforced and which shouldn't?

None of that makes it a good call in the final seconds of a playoff basketball game that had been officiated pretty loosely up until that point - as playoffs games should be.

Who knows if the Pacers would have made a shot or won the game had that call not been made. But that's the point. We'll never know, because the refs took that away from the teams and the fans.
It was a ticky tack call, and those types of calls shouldn't be how playoff games end. Let the players decide it.