Wink and the Giants bigger picture

[Stringer Bell]

1)  Daboll had to fire his close friend Bobby Johnson.  I can't help but feel like part of what motivated Daboll (without consulting Wink) to fire not one but both (I don't see a reasonable explanation for both rather than one) seemed to me like, "Well, if I have to fire my friend, then I will fire yours".  BJ did a terrible job, there was not one pundit, reporter, or fan that suggested Wilkons was doing a poor job.

This seems like a HUGE leap.

First, as many have noted, our defense ranked in the bottom 5 in the league on many defensive metrics, so not sure how Wilkins - as one of Wink's most trusted assistants - could be viewed as anything else but a failure given the unit's performance.

And second, you mentioned reading everything that's been reported, but that amounts to about 10% of the whole story. As Phil pointed out, there are other reports of Wink / Wilkins going their own way. Reality is, we don't know 90% of what went on in that building, and so drawing conclusions like "Daboll fired Wink's friend because he had to fire his own friend" seems HIGHLY speculative.

[Philosophers]

The whole ship has to be pointed in one direction all working well together as a unit.

That said, you can't have egos but you can't have imbalances such as decent D and horrible O as that stresses the other side and leads to tension.  Imagine a DC working his a$$ off to squeeze  everything he can out of an average D to make them above average however the O struggles to score 10 points and turns the ball over regularly.  Now the DC will realize it will eventually worsen his unit and make him look less effective and this tension will begin.

That's why this whole "a great QB overcomes everything theory" is horse$hit.  It's an important but only one piece of a very complicated piece of equipment.

[MightyGiants]

This seems like a HUGE leap.

First, as many have noted, our defense ranked in the bottom 5 in the league on many defensive metrics, so not sure how Wilkins - as one of Wink's most trusted assistants - could be viewed as anything else but a failure given the unit's performance.

And second, you mentioned reading everything that's been reported, but that amounts to about 10% of the whole story. As Phil pointed out, there are other reports of Wink / Wilkins going their own way. Reality is, we don't know 90% of what went on in that building, and so drawing conclusions like "Daboll fired Wink's friend because he had to fire his own friend" seems HIGHLY speculative.

As I said (reference the part in bold), over the last two seasons, I haven't heard a single negative comment directed at Wilkins by pundits, media, or fans.  Seems like rewriting history to suggest Wilkins was doing such a terrible job he needed to be fired without so much as consulting with his immediate boss.

[coggs]

As I said (reference the part in bold), over the last two seasons, I haven't heard a single negative comment directed at Wilkins by pundits, media, or fans.  Seems like rewriting history to suggest Wilkins was doing such a terrible job he needed to be fired without so much as consulting with his immediate boss.

Didnt even know who Wilkins was nor did I care until this story came out.

[MightyGiants]

Didnt even know who Wilkins was nor did I care until this story came out.

I listen to guys like Nick Falato, Bobby Skinner, and even Carl Banks break down plays and players.   They all knew who was coaching the edge players, and none of them were pointing fingers at the coaching staff, saying that the edge players were poorly coached and didn't seem to know what they should be doing.  The same couldn't be said for Bobby Johnson, not by a long shot.

[BluesCruz]

We are making the Jets look like the class organization in New Jersey

[Stringer Bell]

As I said (reference the part in bold), over the last two seasons, I haven't heard a single negative comment directed at Wilkins by pundits, media, or fans.  Seems like rewriting history to suggest Wilkins was doing such a terrible job he needed to be fired without so much as consulting with his immediate boss.

No one ever talks about the position coaches. The buck always stops with the DC, and Wink is talked about plenty.

That said, even Wink has been given a pass the last 2 years. His units have been pretty bad to awful, but I think his reputation and previous performances have insulated him from what would have been rightful negative coverage.

It's not rewriting history to finally assign blame where it is warranted.

[babywhales]

If the team is severed on the offense vs defense it is a huge issue.  Thinking back to the 90's when the defense turned on the Dave brown offense

If that division in anyway is being created by the coaches it's a huge deal

How Daboll kept the team fighting through is actually kind of impressive


All that being said, it's Dabolls ship so he is still to blame and IMO the dysfunction has gone on long enough...

[MightyGiants]

No one ever talks about the position coaches. The buck always stops with the DC, and Wink is talked about plenty.

That said, even Wink has been given a pass the last 2 years. His units have been pretty bad to awful, but I think his reputation and previous performances have insulated him from what would have been rightful negative coverage.

It's not rewriting history to finally assign blame where it is warranted.

Haven't we been talking about position coach Bobby Johnson (O-line) nearly all season?

[coggs]

I listen to guys like Nick Falato, Bobby Skinner, and even Carl Banks break down plays and players.  They all knew who was coaching the edge players, and none of them were pointing fingers at the coaching staff, saying that the edge players were poorly coached and didn't seem to know what they should be doing.  The same couldn't be said for Bobby Johnson, not by a long shot.

I understand.  And, with Bobby Johnson it was different.  Helen Keller could see the OLine was THEE problem on this team.  Just because someone isn't as bad as Bobby Johnson, doesn't mean he can't be fired.  The OLB were not good this year.  Firing the OLB coach is not all that far-fetched.  Secondly, could have been players who had an issue with one or both of the Wilkins and Daboll thought a change need to be made.  Similar thing happened with the Rangers in 2013.  They lost to Bruins.  3 days later, Tortorella was fired.  Reports were the players complained about him in their exit interviews.  That his style was crippling them. 

[MightyGiants]

If the team is severed on the offense vs defense it is a huge issue.  Thinking back to the 90's when the defense turned on the Dave brown offense

If that division in anyway is being created by the coaches it's a huge deal

How Daboll kept the team fighting through is actually kind of impressive


All that being said, it's Dabolls ship so he is still to blame and IMO the dysfunction has gone on long enough...

Yup, in the end the HC is the captain of the ship.  That means he ultimately gets to steer it but also gets all the blame for problems on the ship.

[MightyGiants]

I understand.  And, with Bobby Johnson it was different.  Helen Keller could see the OLine was THEE problem on this team.  Just because someone isn't as bad as Bobby Johnson, doesn't mean he can't be fired.  The OLB were not good this year.  Firing the OLB coach is not all that far-fetched.  Secondly, could have been players who had an issue with one or both of the Wilkins and Daboll thought a change need to be made.  Similar thing happened with the Rangers in 2013.  They lost to Bruins.  3 days later, Tortorella was fired.  Reports were the players complained about him in their exit interviews.  That his style was crippling them.

From what I heard the players loved playing for Wink.  If Wilkins was despised by the players (especially considering his role) I don't think we would be hearing that from the defensive players (how much they love Wink and don't want him to go).

[Stringer Bell]

Haven't we been talking about position coach Bobby Johnson (O-line) nearly all season?

We're talking about defense, and the claim I made ("no one ever talks about position coaches"), was specific to the defense.

When's the last time you uttered the name Jerome Henderson? Or Michael Treier? Have you ever commented on John Egorugwu? These guys are never, ever discussed. So I'm really not sure why you're so surprised that Wilkins was never discussed, or why that fact would be used to draw poor conclusions.

[T200]

From what I heard the players loved playing for Wink.  If Wilkins was despised by the players (especially considering his role) I don't think we would be hearing that from the defensive players (how much they love Wink and don't want him to go).

Classic strawman argument, Rich.

[babywhales]

From what I heard the players loved playing for Wink.  If Wilkins was despised by the players (especially considering his role) I don't think we would be hearing that from the defensive players (how much they love Wink and don't want him to go).

I had heard the lack of pass rush associated with the defense and poor development of Thibs as it relates to the fest or famine style of his play was the main issue with Drew Wilkins

Not sure how much of this is true or not