Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 03:56:58 PMHe is a player who can't stay healthy (only 12 games last season) and is often not 100% due to injury.  He is also a player whose stats and play are declining with age.

Yet those declining stats and play are still top-10 in the league on a per-game basis amongst TEs. His PFF grade was top-half (with gadget players like Taysom Hill above him skewing that ranking). And the Giants showed no ability to replace that production in his absence. Bellinger couldn't replicate it and I'm not confident a 4th round rookie manages to do so in his first season. So in the best interest of whoever the Giants' QB is in 2024, I'd give Waller time.

Quote from: madbadger on Today at 02:59:27 PMHe's the best tight end on the roster and it isn't close. If we're looking to free up money who would it be for, and would they do more to help us win next year than Walker if he plays? Or are you thinking about next years draft picks and are hoping we start ejecting dead "weight" in preparation for next year.

Take the 12 mill saved on a Post June 1 cut and go get someone that could be more impactful.  14mill for 500 yards and 1 TD isn't worth it

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 03:45:45 PMIt really depends on how stats are used.  If used properly, they can be quite helpful in learning things and double-checking things.   

"If used properly" to me is just a fancy way of saying "cherry picking" to illustrate a point or to back up one's belief. For every stat used to help Jones, we use other stats to dismiss the production of a guy like Waller.

Nothing beats the true test of performance under great pressure and elevating a team. That said, I am torn on bringing back Waller.  See the positives but the cap space could help too.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on Today at 03:53:11 PMIs it because his pay is inconsistent with his level of production?

He is a player who can't stay healthy (only 12 games last season) and is often not 100% due to injury.  He is also a player whose stats and play are declining with age.

QuoteAnd who exactly is going to replace Waller's production?

Bellinger and Theo Johnson

QuoteIf it was that easy to replace, why did Bellinger not do so when Waller was out?

Bellinger seemed to suffer a sophomore slump.  Hopeful he rounds back into his rookie form.

Quote from: Trench on Today at 03:51:34 PMPerhaps, but perhaps not. Look at Parcells types - coached on the fly with his gut because he knew his players intestinal fortitude and managing pressure situations. Stats can't show that.

Baseball is a great example of stats and analysis beginning to morph too far and what works in regular season usually doesn't play near as big a role in post season.

Every NFL team now has an analytics department.  Analytics is just a fancy word for using statistics.  Even old timers often used stats; the stats were just a bit less refined than today.  HOF GM Bill Polian used stats all the time as did the late great Gil Brandt

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 03:35:28 PMHow much of a difference do you think Waller's 46 yards per game made?

A question, but no definitive statement. How helpful.

Waller was the 2nd leading receiver on the Giants in 2023, despite missing time with injuries. He was a top-10 receiving TE on a per-game basis around the league. You regularly lament the lack of offensive weapons for Jones as an excuse for why he can't be expected to perform like a league average QB, yet here you are advocating to cut one of the above-average players on the team. Is it because his pay is inconsistent with his level of production? Gee, if that's an indictment of a player, I wonder who else on the roster it should apply to. And who exactly is going to replace Waller's production? If it was that easy to replace, why did Bellinger not do so when Waller was out?

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 03:45:45 PMIt really depends on how stats are used.  If used properly, they can be quite helpful in learning things and double-checking things.   

Perhaps, but perhaps not. Look at Parcells types - coached on the fly with his gut because he knew his players intestinal fortitude and managing pressure situations. Stats can't show that.

Baseball is a great example of stats and analysis beginning to morph too far and what works in regular season usually doesn't play near as big a role in post season.

Quote from: Trench on Today at 03:43:41 PMAgreed.

Stats don't always show the true story.

It really depends on how stats are used.  If used properly, they can be quite helpful in learning things and double-checking things.   

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:15:06 AMWith Burns rushing from the other end, OCs are going to be challenged in terms of giving help (in terms of double teams and slanting) to both OTs.  That should help both pass rushers.

Agreed. I just hope it doesn't put too much pressure on Thibs if he doesn't get off to a fast start.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 03:35:28 PMHow much of a difference do you think Waller's 46 yards per game made?

Agreed.

Stats don't always show the true story.