What does the man have to do to convince you a winner has finally fallen in your laps?
It is mind boggling how certain people treat and downplay the winning and good play of this guy.
"Lets lose out and draft some NFL untested college hopeful". Incredible
Yeah draft one but let him sit a few years until all the winning stops.
If the Giants would just rotate their RBs like 90% of the league. These victory margins would be much larger
I saw Detroit run 2 Jet sweeps and one pitchout the other day in succession. I said to myself why cant we do something like that?
Dabol/Kafka would not call that in a month of Sundays
Tommy is not holding the offense back the coaches and the RB are.
3rd and 13s are more our norm
Yeah, who knows at this point. May as well see where this ride leads us, and who knows, maybe we have a QB.
If not, at least we seem to have a backup QB.
Tommy certainly has something. He's not the prototypical QB but he has heart and he's fearless, two very good qualities to have in that position, IMHO.
I'm all in on him as far as starting the rest of the season. I don't see him as the QB Savior as you do, but I am less nervous with him under center than I was with Jones.
I think we all were. At least I know I have always been.
The team is responding to him. That's the beautiful part of this whole thing. When they do, things like last night happen.
I think you'll have to make room for additional bandwagoners for next week as the kid's cult status continues to grow. Winning in New Orleans is a tough animal and that would be a huge pelt on his horse if he can lead the team to a win out there.
Keep the faith and pushing this kid's name. It's starting to take effect.
Peace!
Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2023, 08:07:34 AMTommy certainly has something. He's not the prototypical QB but he has heart and he's fearless, two very good qualities to have in that position, IMHO.
I'm all in on him as far as starting the rest of the season. I don't see him as the QB Savior as you do, but I am less nervous with him under center than I was with Jones.
Like you I want to see more of him to decide if he is the savior, but....he has taken the bull by the horns. Those runs. Very determined to win at all costs
As he matures I see him as mimicking the Joe Montana style but with better legs. Joe didnt run for yards much. Steve young did. Tommy would have fit on those old 49r teams
Next year TT is the odd man out.
Jones will be back for his 69 million dollars and Schoen would be crazy not to bring TD back.
Until the draft, it is what it is....
I will say this, our QB play has been so bad for so long it is hard to imagine that this is what is getting people excited.
I don't think there's anyone on this board who's not behind him or on the train right now.
I think the only difficulty people have is annotating him as the QB of the future, that's certainly my view.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on December 12, 2023, 08:22:24 AMI don't think there's anyone on this board who's not behind him or on the train right now.
I think the only difficulty people have is annotating him as the QB of the future, that's certainly my view.
He is our QB for now! Live in the now, enjoy the now and worry about tomorrow when it happens!
How are the RBs holding the offense back??? Barkley gets hit almost before he takes his 2nd step, and if he gets that 2nd step there is usually a brick wall he has to run through just to get back to the line of scrimmage. I will say in the 2nd half and late in games the offensive line seems to start opening holes for the RBs a little better.
Quote from: sooners56 on December 12, 2023, 08:32:06 AMHow are the RBs holding the offense back??? Barkley gets hit almost before he takes his 2nd step, and if he gets that 2nd step there is usually a brick wall he has to run through just to get back to the line of scrimmage. I will say in the 2nd half and late in games the offensive line seems to start opening holes for the RBs a little better.
Why is it when Matt Beida comes in the Red Sea parts and he usually runs for 5-6 yds immediately? Give me a Brake
Barkley is slow to pick his hole and hits the hole with zero force. Barkley is a big hole guy who looks good in the opponents downfield areas with his shifty moves
We dont open a lot of big holes
Bill Parcells summed it up perfectly.
"Let's not put him in Canton just yet"
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 12, 2023, 07:59:44 AMWhat does the man have to do to convince you a winner has finally fallen in your laps?
It is mind boggling how certain people treat and downplay the winning and good play of this guy.
"Lets lose out and draft some NFL untested college hopeful". Incredible
Yeah draft one but let him sit a few years until all the winning stops.
If the Giants would just rotate their RBs like 90% of the league. These victory margins would be much larger
I saw Detroit run 2 Jet sweeps and one pitchout the other day in succession. I said to myself why cant we do something like that?
Dabol/Kafka would not call that in a month of Sundays
Tommy is not holding the offense back the coaches and the RB are.
3rd and 13s are more our norm
You are so lost in the moment that you are not realizing that we won last night because of the defense. We are on a 3 game winning streak because of the defense, and the only thing Devito did was not mess it up.
We need elite Qb play so that we can actually start winning football games because of the Qb not despite them.
Great story, lots of fun, but this is basically the football version Lin-Sanity.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 09:54:21 AMYou are so lost in the moment that you are not realizing that we won last night because of the defense. We are on a 3 game winning streak because of the defense, and the only thing Devito did was not mess it up.
We need elite Qb play so that we can actually start winning football games because of the Qb not despite them.
Great story, lots of fun, but this is basically the football version Lin-Sanity.
Besides the solid QB play, TD has been the catalyst to a team of sad sacks depressed and floundering. His leadership has inspired the team and the coaches. Your confirmation bias is coming out with every one of these posts. You can't even give him credit for the improvement in his game since the day he got here. No sacks, no turnovers last night. Gains like 80 yards with his legs and makes key completions, while Kafka held him in check.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 09:54:21 AMYou are so lost in the moment that you are not realizing that we won last night because of the defense. We are on a 3 game winning streak because of the defense, and the only thing Devito did was not mess it up.
We need elite Qb play so that we can actually start winning football games because of the Qb not despite them.
Great story, lots of fun, but this is basically the football version Lin-Sanity.
J,
You are reeeaaaalllly selling this kid short. Let me ask you this: if Jones played the entire game last night, do the Giants win?
I'm guilty of downplaying him...mainly because I watched him so many times playing for Syracuse. However, he's making a believer out of me. Instead of melting under the big lights, he plays with brass balls. He is also very good at detecting pass rushes and instinctively seems to know right where to go...and without losing track of who's open. The kid has moxie and he's proving to all doubters that the stage is not too big for him (unlike so many of the past when they reach the New York stage)
He'll probably have a stinker or two one of these days, throwing doubt again on his ability. But he's proving that he's definitely an NFL QB, which is more than you can say about the legion of QBs taken in early rounds in the past. His QB rating of 96.5 tops both DJ (70.5) and TT and would be leading the nation if not for his limited games
:what:
(https://i.postimg.cc/qMrCC1bh/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzxx.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I'm loving the whole Italian Stallion show. Great fun...he's definitely playing himself into the league. How long it lasts? Who knows? But he has made Giants football fun again and I will take it. If nothing else, from a football perspective he shows where Jones falls short...he throws downfield, (more 20 yard plays) so far he makes good reads, he's growing as a player. Same crappy line, same crappy receivers who can't get open (for Jones) yet they ARE open and he finds them, same crappy coordinator and head coach... /sarcasm/ ... Jones has way more physical talent, but DeVito has a bit more moxy, more "it" factor, more fun factor...call it what you will...and it shows with the team.
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 12, 2023, 08:39:42 AMWhy is it when Matt Beida comes in the Red Sea parts and he usually runs for 5-6 yds immediately? Give me a Brake
Barkley is slow to pick his hole and hits the hole with zero force. Barkley is a big hole guy who looks good in the opponents downfield areas with his shifty moves
We dont open a lot of big holes
Couple of things here:
1) Barkley is averaging 4.2 ypc for the season and Breida 2.7. If the red sea is parting for Breida, he ain't hitting it too fast. Breida had a nice 2 carries last night. Before we say he should be taking more snaps maybe we should look at how the defense was lined up on those plays and why those runs were successful.
2) Barkley is a big part of the reason that some of DeVito's runs were successful last night. When Devito put the ball in Barkleys gut the defenders flocked to him and left huge holes when Devito kept it instead. It doesn't show up in a stat line, but Barkley's presence is very much a factor in the success of some of these plays.
I had more fun as a Giants fan last night than I have had in a long time. That means something to me. I really don't know what DeVito's future is. At the end of the day he seems like he's more of a game manager type than a guy who takes games into his hands and plays with a truly swashbuckling downfield style the way Eli did in his best years. Having said that, he made some legitimately nice throws in big moments last night, and he showed escapability and tremendous poise.
Put yourself in his shoes. The kid is dealing with a Linsanity type fever right now. It would be easy for an undrafted rookie to find that overwhelming and maybe try to do too much and be error prone. But he's not. He is keeping his wits about him and just getting the job done. I'm definitely impressed with him relative to my expectations. That doesn't mean anyone is saying he's Joe Burrow.
HOSS 2.0. Go Giants.
Comparing Tommy Devito to Jeremy Lin might be the most perfect analogy I've ever seen on this board. "Linsanity" took over NY like nothing I've ever seen...more hoopla than when the Knicks got Mello =D>
Lin came out of nowhere and delivered something the team had been missing for years. Not sure Devito has garnered quite the amount of attention and adoration as Lin, but what a great analogy
Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2023, 10:06:10 AMJ,
You are reeeaaaalllly selling this kid short. Let me ask you this: if Jones played the entire game last night, do the Giants win?
No we absolutely lose with Jones at Qb. I'm not trying to downplay Devito. He played a solid game but that was just it solid, and has been solid for 3 weeks which is great and fun to watch but it still isn't great or even elite Qb play.
Solid isn't bad, he just didn't lose us the game like Jones typically does. He made a few necessary plays at the right time to get us there which is great but if an elite Qb was facing that packers team last night they would have picked them apart aided by the turnovers from our defense.
Jones also wins this game. He beat the Packers with Rodgers a year ago.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 12, 2023, 10:03:01 AMBesides the solid QB play, TD has been the catalyst to a team of sad sacks depressed and floundering. His leadership has inspired the team and the coaches. Your confirmation bias is coming out with every one of these posts. You can't even give him credit for the improvement in his game since the day he got here. No sacks, no turnovers last night. Gains like 80 yards with his legs and makes key completions, while Kafka held him in check.
Ed I said he had a solid game, I'm not going to swoon over 158 yards. Yes he did what he needed to do and I thoroughly enjoyed watching the game. However that doesn't change the reality that we need an elite Qb. Yes we won 3 games but 2 of them were under 200 yards passing. We might as well be rolling the clocks back to last year and having the same conversation. Daboll and Kafka masking the Qb play and the Defense winning games for us all the while everyone gives the credit to Jones and now Devito.
Daboll is a good enough coach that we'll likely win 8 games regardless of who the Qb is but we need elite Qb play to win consistently and we don't have that on the roster currently. Yes we have a great story, but not an elite qb play.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 10:27:16 AMNo we absolutely lose with Jones at Qb. I'm not trying to downplay Devito. He played a solid game but that was just it solid, and has been solid for 3 weeks which is great and fun to watch but it still isn't great or even elite Qb play.
Solid isn't bad, he just didn't lose us the game line Jones typically does. He made a few necessary plays at the right time to get us there which is great but if an elite Qb was facing that packers team last night they would have picked them apart aided by the turnovers from our defense.
Oh man, I was hoping someone would bring that up. I think I can safely say that Patrick Mahomes is widely regarded as the best QB in football. Elite. Two weeks ago, the Chiefs hosted this same Packers team in prime time and lost.
Mahomes
21/33 210 1 TD 1 INT
Touchdown Tommy
17/21 158 1 TD 0 INT
OK, I think I get your stance. DeVito isn't elite and I agree. He may never be.
There are QBs that you can win with and QBs you can win because of. Jones is a QB you can win with if everything else around him is working. DeVito is a QB you can win because of who he is and how he plays. Elite or not, the kid is a winner.
The confidence he has in his arm and those throws he made on the run last night are not pedestrian throws. Those were Mahomes/Allen-type throws. He was a little shaky to start the game but settled down and played very well.
Keep in mind, he was still having to navigate a subpar effort in pass protection and make plays. And he did just that.
I don't care that he isn't considered 'elite'... the kid knows how to win. I'm not comparing him to Eli but that same 'elite' issue was brought up in 2007. Eli was asked if he thought he was elite and he said 'Yes' and the internet had a collective laugh.
I'll enjoy Tommy's run for as long as it lasts. For the record, if I'm Joe Schoen, I'd still draft a QB if he is within reasonable reach.
Quote from: TDToomer on December 12, 2023, 10:29:35 AMJones also wins this game. He beat the Packers with Rodgers a year ago.
Fair point. That was on a neutral too. He didn't have the entire stadium screaming his name with adoration.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 10:39:15 AMEd I said he had a solid game, I'm not going to swoon over 158 yards. Yes he did what he needed to do and I thoroughly enjoyed watching the game. However that doesn't change the reality that we need an elite Qb. Yes we won 3 games but 2 of them were under 200 yards passing. We might as well be rolling the clocks back to last year and having the same conversation. Daboll and Kafka masking the Qb play and the Defense winning games for us all the while everyone gives the credit to Jones and now Devito.
Daboll is a good enough coach that we'll likely win 8 games regardless of who the Qb is but we need elite Qb play to win consistently and we don't have that on the roster currently. Yes we have a great story, but not an elite qb play.
So it was ok to bring DJ along slowly most of last season until teams took away the run but not for Tommy in his 5th start in this league? I would even take away that Jets game because he wasn't allowed to throw so make that four starts. He's slated for 27 touchdowns in a 17 game season and his last three games he's averaging a 117 passer rating and 66 completion percentage. They paid Jones 40 million for this...
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 10:39:15 AMEd I said he had a solid game, I'm not going to swoon over 158 yards. Yes he did what he needed to do and I thoroughly enjoyed watching the game. However that doesn't change the reality that we need an elite Qb. Yes we won 3 games but 2 of them were under 200 yards passing. We might as well be rolling the clocks back to last year and having the same conversation. Daboll and Kafka masking the Qb play and the Defense winning games for us all the while everyone gives the credit to Jones and now Devito.
Daboll is a good enough coach that we'll likely win 8 games regardless of who the Qb is but we need elite Qb play to win consistently and we don't have that on the roster currently. Yes we have a great story, but not an elite qb play.
This is what you said.
You are so lost in the moment that you are not realizing that we won last night because of the defense. We are on a 3 game winning streak because of the defense, and the only thing Devito did was not mess it up.
Total team effort and Tommy played a key role. He didn't just not lose the game.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 10:27:16 AMNo we absolutely lose with Jones at Qb. I'm not trying to downplay Devito. He played a solid game but that was just it solid, and has been solid for 3 weeks which is great and fun to watch but it still isn't great or even elite Qb play.
Solid isn't bad, he just didn't lose us the game like Jones typically does. He made a few necessary plays at the right time to get us there which is great but if an elite Qb was facing that packers team last night they would have picked them apart aided by the turnovers from our defense.
Jess - 99% of good QBs do not perform in their 4th game playing in the NFL what this kid did in his 4th game. If he "managed the game efficiently" in his 4th game, did not throw any INTs, avoided sacks, hit on key passes, that is a damn good game for a player with so little experience. I think you need to stop thinking that unless he plays like Patrick Mahommes in his 25th game, it means the Giants need a QB. We dont know anything yet to be honest.
What I want to see is how he performs after he has a bad game.
He is developing. Keep that in mind.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 09:54:21 AMYou are so lost in the moment that you are not realizing that we won last night because of the defense. We are on a 3 game winning streak because of the defense, and the only thing Devito did was not mess it up.
We need elite Qb play so that we can actually start winning football games because of the Qb not despite them.
Great story, lots of fun, but this is basically the football version Lin-Sanity.
You guys are something else....cant accept prosperity
must be voodoo
DeVito is a winner. Was in High School, Was in College
He told his on field interviewer last night
"Listen....Ive been playing this game a long time"
(As in, I am confident and I have honed my craft before getting here)
I didnt just arrive on a pumpkin wagon
This is why I compared him to another Italian- Joe Montana- both are/were cool as a cucumber
Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2023, 10:42:02 AMOh man, I was hoping someone would bring that up. I think I can safely say that Patrick Mahomes is widely regarded as the best QB in football. Elite. Two weeks ago, the Chiefs hosted this same Packers team in prime time and lost.
Mahomes
21/33 210 1 TD 1 INT
Touchdown Tommy
17/21 158 1 TD 0 INT
OK, I think I get your stance. DeVito isn't elite and I agree. He may never be.
There are QBs that you can win with and QBs you can win because of. Jones is a QB you can win with if everything else around him is working. DeVito is a QB you can win because of who he is and how he plays. Elite or not, the kid is a winner.
The confidence he has in his arm and those throws he made on the run last night are not pedestrian throws. Those were Mahomes/Allen-type throws. He was a little shaky to start the game but settled down and played very well.
Keep in mind, he was still having to navigate a subpar effort in pass protection and make plays. And he did just that.
I don't care that he isn't considered 'elite'... the kid knows how to win. I'm not comparing him to Eli but that same 'elite' issue was brought up in 2007. Eli was asked if he thought he was elite and he said 'Yes' and the internet had a collective laugh.
I'll enjoy Tommy's run for as long as it lasts. For the record, if I'm Joe Schoen, I'd still draft a QB if he is within reasonable reach.
Spot on, I am having as much fun as anyone and I am enjoying the winning and the story but that doesn't take away from the fact that I realize we need a QB1 and realistically I don't think that person is on the roster currently.
I don't think Jess is slamming the guy or being unreasonably negative. I think he's being a circumspect fan and not getting out over his skis. I think his point is that it's very difficult, if not close to impossible, to win championships in today's NFL without elite or near elite QB play. Does anyone here disagree with that?
Obviously we're not close to winning championships right now, but that doesn't mean it should not be the long term goal. I would concur with the general strategic view that if you don't have an elite QB, you should continue to look for one until you do. And what you should never do is pay meaningful 2nd contract money to a mediocre QB. That's how you become the Tannehill Titans or the Cousins Vikes, and those QBs were actually better than mediocre in their primes. And while those teams did make the playoffs in their good years, they were never on anyone's radar as being Super Bowl caliber. Same with the Dalton Bengals. If that's your end game goal, then fine, but given we are a franchise whose high points over the past several decades have been championships, we should have greater aspirations than just being a solid, respectable but not great team.
So, if I'm understanding Jess correctly, he is not tearing down what DeVito has done so far. He is simply making the broad point that you just about cannot win titles with a middle of the road QB, especially one that isn't on a rookie contract. So while DeVito may figure into the future now as a backup or even low cost starter for a period of time, it is unlikely that we have an elite QB on our hands. Is it a zero percent chance? No, perhaps not, but I think it's fair to say it's unlikely.
And as far as our recent wins, yes, it feels great to win games, but prior to last night we beat a Commanders team that turned the ball over to us six times and a horrid Pats team that turned it over three times and missed a 35 yard chip shot to tie it up with no time on the clock. DeVito played ok in those games, but he wasn't playing at any sort of exceptional level.
I have said repeatedly that I am enjoying this ride, and I love the DeVito story and am excited to see where it can go, but that does not change the reality that you're putting a pretty low ceiling on your topside as a franchise if you lock yourself into a QB who is middle of the road. I get that we don't know exactly what DeVito is yet for sure, but until the front office believes they have their 10 year future QB on the roster, I doubt they'll just drop their interest in the position.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 12, 2023, 01:06:45 PMI don't think Jess is slamming the guy or being unreasonably negative. I think he's being a circumspect fan and not getting out over his skis. I think his point is that it's very difficult, if not close to impossible, to win championships in today's NFL without elite or near elite QB play. Does anyone here disagree with that?
Obviously we're not close to winning championships right now, but that doesn't mean it should not be the long term goal. I would concur with the general strategic view that if you don't have an elite QB, you should continue to look for one until you do. And what you should never do is pay meaningful 2nd contract money to a mediocre QB. That's how you become the Tannehill Titans or the Cousins Vikes, and those QBs were actually better than mediocre in their primes. And while those teams did make the playoffs in their good years, they were never on anyone's radar as being Super Bowl caliber. Same with the Dalton Bengals. If that's your end game goal, then fine, but given we are a franchise whose high points over the past several decades have been championships, we should have greater aspirations than just being a solid, respectable but not great team.
So, if I'm understanding Jess correctly, he is not tearing down what DeVito has done so far. He is simply making the broad point that you just about cannot win titles with a middle of the road QB, especially one that isn't on a rookie contract. So while DeVito may figure into the future now as a backup or even low cost starter for a period of time, it is unlikely that we have an elite QB on our hands. Is it a zero percent chance? No, perhaps not, but I think it's fair to say it's unlikely.
And as far as our recent wins, yes, it feels great to win games, but prior to last night we beat a Commanders team that turned the ball over to us six times and a horrid Pats team that turned it over three times and missed a 35 yard chip shot to tie it up with no time on the clock. DeVito played ok in those games, but he wasn't playing at any sort of exceptional level.
I have said repeatedly that I am enjoying this ride, and I love the DeVito story and am excited to see where it can go, but that does not change the reality that you're putting a pretty low ceiling on your topside as a franchise if you lock yourself into a QB who is middle of the road. I get that we don't know exactly what DeVito is yet for sure, but until the front office believes they have their 10 year future QB on the roster, I doubt they'll just drop their interest in the position.
Excellent post. DeVito has been the feel good story for the Giants this not so feel good season. We'll take it as fans. I think and hope, however, that Schoen evaluates players not based on a few games, but keeping his eye on the long term goal that should be competing for championships year in and year out. To do that, as DB said, you need not just solid, but elite QB play. I hope that is the Giants organization's goal. It might seem foolish now based on a handful of games where your QB didn't turn the ball over, managed the game well, and showed spunk and determination, to ignore a QB in the draft. Whatever comes from DeVito in the long term is a bonus. The reality is, at least I hope, that Jones, healthy or not, will only be a Giant for one more year. So unless you think for sure DeVito can be an elite QB in the NFL, you need to look for one elsewhere if you want to get to that more rarefied level.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 12, 2023, 01:06:45 PMI don't think Jess is slamming the guy or being unreasonably negative. I think he's being a circumspect fan and not getting out over his skis. I think his point is that it's very difficult, if not close to impossible, to win championships in today's NFL without elite or near elite QB play. Does anyone here disagree with that?
Obviously we're not close to winning championships right now, but that doesn't mean it should not be the long term goal. I would concur with the general strategic view that if you don't have an elite QB, you should continue to look for one until you do. And what you should never do is pay meaningful 2nd contract money to a mediocre QB. That's how you become the Tannehill Titans or the Cousins Vikes, and those QBs were actually better than mediocre in their primes. And while those teams did make the playoffs in their good years, they were never on anyone's radar as being Super Bowl caliber. Same with the Dalton Bengals. If that's your end game goal, then fine, but given we are a franchise whose high points over the past several decades have been championships, we should have greater aspirations than just being a solid, respectable but not great team.
So, if I'm understanding Jess correctly, he is not tearing down what DeVito has done so far. He is simply making the broad point that you just about cannot win titles with a middle of the road QB, especially one that isn't on a rookie contract. So while DeVito may figure into the future now as a backup or even low cost starter for a period of time, it is unlikely that we have an elite QB on our hands. Is it a zero percent chance? No, perhaps not, but I think it's fair to say it's unlikely.
And as far as our recent wins, yes, it feels great to win games, but prior to last night we beat a Commanders team that turned the ball over to us six times and a horrid Pats team that turned it over three times and missed a 35 yard chip shot to tie it up with no time on the clock. DeVito played ok in those games, but he wasn't playing at any sort of exceptional level.
I have said repeatedly that I am enjoying this ride, and I love the DeVito story and am excited to see where it can go, but that does not change the reality that you're putting a pretty low ceiling on your topside as a franchise if you lock yourself into a QB who is middle of the road. I get that we don't know exactly what DeVito is yet for sure, but until the front office believes they have their 10 year future QB on the roster, I doubt they'll just drop their interest in the position.
Correct, absolutely love the story and love that we are winning. I am however realistic when I look at the NFL right now and every team that is competitive year in and year out has a top 10 Qb and we don't have that.
The Giants are playing the same ball they did last year with Jones currently with Devito. Limit mistakes, completions that are quick and easy.. that's all great and Devito made a great throw to Hodgins and WanDale last night. Just because we are on a streak and winning doesn't mean our needs change..
Do you think Tyrod wins the last 3 games? I do personally if he played, would the fan base then be saying we don't need a qb because tyrod won those 3 games? I don't think so, so then why would it change with Devito?
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 09:54:21 AMYou are so lost in the moment that you are not realizing that we won last night because of the defense. We are on a 3 game winning streak because of the defense, and the only thing Devito did was not mess it up.
We need elite Qb play so that we can actually start winning football games because of the Qb not despite them.
Great story, lots of fun, but this is basically the football version Lin-Sanity.
I see it differently. Yeah the defense is our strength but this guy makes plays to score touchdowns and makes plays to close games. He is a much better passer and decision maker than Jones. Plus the team responds to him. Personally I find him very fun to cheer for and love watching The Giants again. Look at the crowd enjoying it.
I doubt he's the next Brady, that's wishful thinking most likely. But what about the next Jake Delhomme or Ryan Fitzpatrick?? That could b3 a good thing. Forget Williams and Maye at this point. Just build around him for next year and see where it goes
Quote from: StompYouOT on December 12, 2023, 01:37:36 PMI see it differently. Yeah the defense is our strength but this guy makes plays to score touchdowns and makes plays to close games. He is a much better passer and decision maker than Jones. Plus the team responds to him. Personally I find him very fun to cheer for and love watching The Giants again. Look at the crowd enjoying it.
I doubt he's the next Brady, that's wishful thinking most likely. But what about the next Jake Delhomme or Ryan Fitzpatrick?? That could b3 a good thing. Forget Williams and Maye at this point. Just build around him for next year and see where it goes
Actually Jordon Love played so badly under the same conditions in the first half that a top ten QB would have carved up the Giants Defense last night. Which would have been interesting to see if the training wheels would come off for Tommy and let him air it out playing from behind. Credit the Defense for keeping them in the game the second half. They sure as hell didn't win this one on their own. Good team effort.
Lance Medow: If there's one statistic that explains why the Giants were productive on offense and finished drives against the Packers, it's zero sacks allowed with only two quarterback hits. What a difference it makes when you avoid negative plays. That's a huge reason the Giants orchestrated a pair of touchdown drives for 75 yards. Tommy DeVito and company didn't lose any yardage on the first eight-play drive that resulted in a score, and only had to overcome a false start penalty on the second as well as a one-yard loss on a Saquon Barkley run. That possession lasted 10 plays. They faced two third downs and reached the end zone on one of those plays. The Giants were three of four in the red zone, whereas the Packers were two of five. Here's the biggest difference: Jordan Love was sacked twice in that area compared to DeVito, who remained upright.
Quote from: StompYouOT on December 12, 2023, 01:37:36 PMI see it differently. Yeah the defense is our strength but this guy makes plays to score touchdowns and makes plays to close games. He is a much better passer and decision maker than Jones. Plus the team responds to him. Personally I find him very fun to cheer for and love watching The Giants again. Look at the crowd enjoying it.
I doubt he's the next Brady, that's wishful thinking most likely. But what about the next Jake Delhomme or Ryan Fitzpatrick?? That could b3 a good thing. Forget Williams and Maye at this point. Just build around him for next year and see where it goes
The problem is that a Jake Delhomme or Ryan Fitzpatrick doesn't win you super bowls in the modern NFL. You have to have a top 10 guy and even if you do it's still super hard. To even be in the conversation though you need Elite.
The Paisano Push
https://x.com/baldynfl/status/1734574231441068157?
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 02:20:13 PMThe problem is that a Jake Delhomme or Ryan Fitzpatrick doesn't win you super bowls in the modern NFL. You have to have a top 10 guy and even if you do it's still super hard. To even be in the conversation though you need Elite.
Agreed.
Of course, let's say we're picking 10th and Daniels, Williams, and Maye are all long gone. While I share the view that you need an elite or near-elite QB to contend for Super Bowls, I don't want us to force the pick with someone we're only meh on. I don't think anyone wants that. So we may be in a position where we all agree that DeVito might not be the long term solution, but he might still be the best QB on our team. At the moment, just four starts into his career, it would appear that is already the case.
If we don't draft a QB this year I suspect they'll still sign some other veteran into the system, but there may be a scenario where, even though we agree about the need for aspiring to have an elite QB, we may not be adding anyone interesting next year. Winning these last three games has forced us into that reality. I don't want the Giants to draft a Bo Nix or JJ McCarthy if they don't genuinely believe they are looking at an elite level prospect. I'd rather take a stud receiver or premium defensive guy or trade down.
Bottom line we need to see how these last four games go.
So now our Think Tank is predicting Tommy DeVito will turn into a Jake Delhomme or Ryan Fitzpatrick who can get the Giants to the SB but can't win it because he's clearly demonstrated that after 5 games, he's never gonna be an Elite QB.
Although I'm sure they checked with Chat GPT.
Yup, you can't make this xxxx up folks!
:-??
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 12, 2023, 02:41:30 PMSo now our Think Tank is predicting Tommy DeVito will turn into a Jake Delhomme or Ryan Fitzpatrick who can get the Giants to the SB but can't win it because he's clearly demonstrated that after 5 games, he's never gonna be an Elite QB.
Although I'm sure they checked with Chat GPT.
Yup, you can't make this xxxx up folks!
:-??
One of my pet peeves is comparing athletes to athletes...especially in analyzing prospects. Every human being is distinct and unique - period, end of story. The book on Devito hasn't been written yet. None of us know what he'll blossom into over the next few years. The one thing we do know for a fact, is that he won't turn into someone else - it's his mindset, his body, his mental acumen and the way he sees the game, etc., that is who he is. We can do nothing but sit back and watch. He could bust, he could become adequate, he could become good, or he could become great. We don't know anything other than in the end, he will still be Tommy Devito and he's writing his own story
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 12, 2023, 03:43:36 PMOne of my pet peeves is comparing athletes to athletes...especially in analyzing prospects. Every human being is distinct and unique - period, end of story. The book on Devito hasn't been written yet. None of us know what he'll blossom into over the next few years. The one thing we do know for a fact, is that he won't turn into someone else - it's his mindset, his body, his mental acumen and the way he sees the game, etc., that is who he is. We can do nothing but sit back and watch. He could bust, he could become adequate, he could become good, or he could become great. We don't know anything other than in the end, he will still be Tommy Devito and he's writing his own story
Well said.
If you are a tried and true Giants fan, you root for and support whomever has the task of lining up behind the Center and calling signals. Of course, it should go without saying that rooting for one doesn't call for dissing another.
In any case, let's not get carried away and add pressure to Tommy after 3 straight wins as we did not do to Danny after five in a row, early last year. And as Knicks fans, let's not do a Jeremy Lin. That won't do nobody no good.
Cheers!
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 09:54:21 AMthe only thing Devito did was not mess it up.
In a QB that's a very underrated trait.
I think the key point is Tommy is a feel good story.
And by God, ten games in, did we need a feel good story.
He's a likeable, tough competitor who's doing his damndest to squeeze every ounce from what God gave him.
He seems to have a close knit family of characters.
When I use my head, I see him as an undrafted free agent working for a career back up job.
When I use my heart, I see Scorsesse directing his life story in a movie a la Kurt Warner.
The true story is quite possibly someplace in-between.
But any Giants whose heart isn't warmed by what's going on right now needs to take a look at themselves and ask why they root for any sports team.
Hopefully we'll build to be a Superbowl winning team again in my lifetime, but who knows.
Until we climb those lofty peaks, let's have some fun at least!
We could be watching Jake Fromm doing a sneak on third and long.
Pretty sure the person refrenced Devito to Delhomme and Fitzpatrick not because of ability but because one was undrafted and the other was a seventh round pick, and both became starters in the NFL for several years.
Once Devito learns how to read the defense better and audible we will see an even bigger improvement. I remember in preseason how he seemed to "learn from his mistakes on the fly" and immediate corrective action implemented. It seems as if this has carried over to the regular season games. Instead of the game speeding up on him, it appears to slow down for him.
He can be a very good NFL backup and maybe more. He has done well to prove it thus far.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 12, 2023, 02:20:13 PMThe problem is that a Jake Delhomme or Ryan Fitzpatrick doesn't win you super bowls in the modern NFL. You have to have a top 10 guy and even if you do it's still super hard. To even be in the conversation though you need Elite.
I don't disagree although Jake nearly did it. Hell who won with the Eagles? Foles?? You never know. We have to make a stand here since we're out on Williams and Maye. I never thought this roster was as bad as it looked. I really thought Jones was dragging us down and now at least we're competitive.
I'm actually ....looking forward to watching games again.
Am I the only one here who's not too old to remember another Jersey kid who grew up near Giants Stadium, rooting for the Giants, from an ethnic family, who then attended 3rd-rate football school, and came to the Giants as an undrafted no-name backup who got his chance because of an injury to a starter, and wound up playing really well, taking the place by storm, causing a media sensation and exciting the home fans?
Hmmm I wonder who that could be?
https://tenor.com/view/victor-cruz-dance-football-groovy-when-your-song-plays-gif-4855958
Quote from: BlueMoshik on December 13, 2023, 04:29:25 AMAm I the only one here who's not too old to remember another Jersey kid who grew up near Giants Stadium, rooting for the Giants, from an ethnic family, who then attended 3rd-rate football school, and came to the Giants as an undrafted no-name backup who got his chance because of an injury to a starter, and wound up playing really well, taking the place by storm, causing a media sensation and exciting the home fans?
Hmmm I wonder who that could be?
https://tenor.com/view/victor-cruz-dance-football-groovy-when-your-song-plays-gif-4855958
Not at all. There have been comparison especially since DeVito was asked to throw balls to Cruz as a High School Senior to help the later rehab from injury and get ready for camp.
I am getting Danny Kanell vibes from Cutlets. Both started their careers 3-1 replacing a former Duke QB. Neither put up overwhelming passing yards but get the job done.
Quote from: TDToomer on December 13, 2023, 09:04:14 AMNot at all. There have been comparison especially since DeVito was asked to throw balls to Cruz as a High School Senior to help the later rehab from injury and get ready for camp.
I am getting Danny Kanell vibes from Cutlets. Both started their careers 1-3 replacing a former Duke QB. Neither put up overwhelming passing yards but get the job done.
I assume you mean 3-1?
Boy am I glad none of you are general managers. The level of unbridled, myopic hype for DeVito really is akin to Linsanity. It's that kind of hot take fandom that makes me avoid talking football.
There's so much to like about DeVito, and not even the Italian-American local-kid-makes-good schlock the media is feeding us. He's not putting the ball in harms way. He's got some wiggle when he runs. He's a credible passer. He's an incredibly cheap backup on a team with a starter prone to injury. And that's pretty much where the story ends for me. Beating a couple of middling teams behind strong defensive efforts and playing turnover-free is what we should demand of every back-up, let alone a starter.
That doesn't mean we need to commit to anything beyond this season. With Tyrod Taylor on the way out and Jones' uncertain status, Schoen has already said he plans to address the QB position in the offseason. The reality is, regardless of what people on this board seem to think, finances play a massive role in determining who the starter is and Daniel Jones will be your starter when he returns to being healthy. I chuckle when I see the people who lauded the Jones deal now chasing the next shiny car like a dog. 2024 will probably include both Jones and DeVito and the results on the field are unlikely to change. A sub .500 team who's got some scrap to them. People will say "we could win a championship with him!" when they should really ask themselves "can we consistently compete for a championship, year in and out with him?" Until you can answer that question with a yes, you continue to look for a QB who matches that criteria. Not a "good enough to make the playoffs" guy like Jones. Not a "OMG HE WON 3 WHOLE GAMES IN A ROWWWWWW" the drunkards in the parking lot scream about. Please wake me when we draft the next Eli Manning, or draft a real QB in the top 10 that isn't a reach. More likely than not, until then, the Giants won't amount to much.
Quote from: zephirus on December 13, 2023, 09:45:43 AMBoy am I glad none of you are general managers. The level of unbridled, myopic hype for DeVito really is akin to Linsanity. It's that kind of hot take fandom that makes me avoid talking football.
There's so much to like about DeVito, and not even the Italian-American local-kid-makes-good schlock the media is feeding us. He's not putting the ball in harms way. He's got some wiggle when he runs. He's a credible passer. He's an incredibly cheap backup on a team with a starter prone to injury. And that's pretty much where the story ends for me. Beating a couple of middling teams behind strong defensive efforts and playing turnover-free is what we should demand of every back-up, let alone a starter.
That doesn't mean we need to commit to anything beyond this season. With Tyrod Taylor on the way out and Jones' uncertain status, Schoen has already said he plans to address the QB position in the offseason. The reality is, regardless of what people on this board seem to think, finances play a massive role in determining who the starter is and Daniel Jones will be your starter when he returns to being healthy. I chuckle when I see the people who lauded the Jones deal now chasing the next shiny car like a dog. 2024 will probably include both Jones and DeVito and the results on the field are unlikely to change. A sub .500 team who's got some scrap to them. People will say "we could win a championship with him!" when they should really ask themselves "can we consistently compete for a championship, year in and out with him?" Until you can answer that question with a yes, you continue to look for a QB who matches that criteria. Not a "good enough to make the playoffs" guy like Jones. Not a "OMG HE WON 3 WHOLE GAMES IN A ROWWWWWW" the drunkards in the parking lot scream about. Please wake me when we draft the next Eli Manning, or draft a real QB in the top 10 that isn't a reach. More likely than not, until then, the Giants won't amount to much.
nice try but he's leading the NFL in QBR by a mile
until he losses maybe not the right time to throw ice water on his future
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 15, 2023, 01:51:34 PMnice try but he's leading the NFL in QBR by a mile
until he losses maybe not the right time to throw ice water on his future
He is not leading the NFL in QBR. He had the best QBR in week 14. His total for the year is subpar.
Here is the season leaders up to #29. He is not in the top 30 for QBR for a season total. The guys at the bottom of the list have a better QBR than Tommy does.
Tommy's got a 26.2 total for the year. His last game was a huge improvement.
QBR LOL? Wasn't there another guy on here touting Jacoby Brisset for having a good QBR? The dude is a back up to Sam Howell on like his 4 th team.
In any case, I liked Devito's effert and so far he has surprised me. But part of it is that I did not think the defense could generate as many turnovers yet again as they did 3 weeks in a row but here we are.
Look you cannot compare a team like the Lions and Goff to Devito and the Giants. They run jet sweeps and things like that because they have a legit passing threat that defenses need to respect. Devito and his 158 yards passing just simply is not that.
He is a great story and playing great given the circumstances but, I just don't see him as legit QB1 material. If he can lead an offense up and down the field -- without the defense giving him a short field a like 2 turnovers a game -- and he can throw for like 300 + yards and 3 TDs in a game -- then I might be a believer.
Quote from: Fletch on December 15, 2023, 02:52:33 PMQBR LOL? Wasn't there another guy on here touting Jacoby Brisset for having a good QBR? The dude is a back up to Sam Howell on like his 4 th team.
In any case, I liked Devito's effert and so far he has surprised me. But part of it is that I did not think the defense could generate as many turnovers yet again as they did 3 weeks in a row but here we are.
LOL. Ok but be prepared to be shown wrong in the end
There are about ten factors that go into QB play. Yds per game is wayyy over-rated as a sole indicator
If it were total Yds per game you have to add Tommys 71 on the ground
Look you cannot compare a team like the Lions and Goff to Devito and the Giants. They run jet sweeps and things like that because they have a legit passing threat that defenses need to respect. Devito and his 158 yards passing just simply is not that.
He is a great story and playing great given the circumstances but, I just don't see him as legit QB1 material. If he can lead an offense up and down the field -- without the defense giving him a short field a like 2 turnovers a game -- and he can throw for like 300 + yards and 3 TDs in a game -- then I might be a believer.
https://twitter.com/rydunleavy/status/1735659855015219655
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 12, 2023, 07:59:44 AMWhat does the man have to do to convince you a winner has finally fallen in your laps?
It is mind boggling how certain people treat and downplay the winning and good play of this guy.
"Lets lose out and draft some NFL untested college hopeful". Incredible
Yeah draft one but let him sit a few years until all the winning stops.
If the Giants would just rotate their RBs like 90% of the league. These victory margins would be much larger
I saw Detroit run 2 Jet sweeps and one pitchout the other day in succession. I said to myself why cant we do something like that?
Dabol/Kafka would not call that in a month of Sundays
Tommy is not holding the offense back the coaches and the RB are.
3rd and 13s are more our norm
What does the man have to do to convince you a winner has finally fallen in your laps?Where to begin...........
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 15, 2023, 01:51:34 PMnice try but he's leading the NFL in QBR by a mile
until he losses maybe not the right time to throw ice water on his future
He also finished 8th in the Heisman, right? You should seriously think about double-checking these "facts" you post. All of this info can be easily found on this thing we now have called, "the internet". Some may refer to it as the "world wide web". If you go to google, do a search for "internet" and read all about it.
This thread is so embarrassing.