Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: PSUBeirut on April 07, 2024, 01:31:16 PMInteresting!  So are these the same thoughts you had about Saquon being selected #2 overall?  Or do you just feel differently about the TE position than you do RB?

For me personally, a TE at 6, no matter the prospect, is a waste.  At least until one of these uber athletic, generational TE prospects actually produces like that on the field. 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 07, 2024, 02:23:12 PMActually yeah, I do feel differently about TE than I do RB. First, TE is a more expensive position than RB in terms of average salary. It is not as expensive as receiver, which I very clearly alluded to in my post, but it is pricier than RB. Secondly, the league is a passing league, so if you do happen to have a weapon like Gronk, Kelce, Gates etc it has a greater impact on an offense in today's NFL than having a Derrick Henry or Jonathan Taylor does.

I understand TE is not as valuable a position as receiver, QB, OT, and CB. I have also made it clear (twice now) that I am not advocating for taking Bowers. Nor do I think the Giants will. I was simply highlighting the low probability scenario where they have him graded as a much better prospect than the other options they're considering with that pick. My own personal opinion is that he is not a superior prospect to the big three receivers, but unlike some here who clearly believe they are better talent evaluators than NFL front offices, I am happy to defer to Schoen and his team on this matter.

Would I be happy with the pick if they took him? Since I am hoping we somehow get a QB the front office likes, and since I like all three of these receivers quite a bit as well as Joe Alt, probably not, but I'll make up my mind more firmly about that once I have watched him play for a year or two.

All good.  I respect that.  Just found it interesting that almost the exact same (opposite) verbiage was used by folks who were 100% against taking a RB that high - ie, our GM (and the vast majority of NFL folks, draftniks, etc.) considered Barkley to be the top or at least top 3 overall prospect in that draft, regardless of position.  So when you say "I would not want them to hold back and go with the inferior prospect in this case based purely on position." it piqued my interest- as many folks who didn't want Saquon at #2 used the opposite of this logic in their arguments- ie, that the GM SHOULD draft an inferior prospect on their board solely based on position. 

Me, personally- I don't think either a TE --OR-- a RB should ever be taken that high- And I actually feel more strongly on the TE piece than the RB- as long as the RB is a multi-dimensional threat....because they're gonna touch the ball a whole lot more than a TE ever would.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 07, 2024, 07:31:12 PMIt's interesting that the only TE they've had in for a visit is Theo Johnson (that I've seen listed anyway). A big and fast traditional type TE who show exceptional athleticism at the combine

I believe Theo will be a better pro than he was a college player.  IMO he was misused in the offense last year and should have been a more-featured weapon.  I could see him being one of those mid-round gems for someone.  He's got a lot of great tools and good intangibles as well.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 07, 2024, 01:04:21 PMNone of the above examples mean Bowers will be a bad pick.

To be clear, I'm not advocating taking Bowers. Based on my own observations and sense of value, I would prefer any of the receivers over him. What I am not on board with is dismissing the idea of picking him completely out of hand, based purely on his being a TE and the others being receivers. If Schoen and his scouts rated Bowers as a distinctly better prospect than the WRs available when they pick, and they aren't going with a different position, then I would not want them to hold back and go with the inferior prospect in this case based purely on position. That is all.

Interesting!  So are these the same thoughts you had about Saquon being selected #2 overall?  Or do you just feel differently about the TE position than you do RB?

For me personally, a TE at 6, no matter the prospect, is a waste.  At least until one of these uber athletic, generational TE prospects actually produces like that on the field. 

Terrible.  Awful.  With the talent that is available at 6, guaranteed- that matches up with critical team needs - picking a TE would be ridiculous.   

What a cool story.  It would be amazing if things worked out for the young man. 

Traded down with Cinci and stockpiled...

Don't discount both Dawson Knox and Dalton Kincaid at TE position- both really good receiving threats.  James Cook out of the backfield is also a weapon.  I'm of the mindset that Josh is gonna be fine as long as they add 1 or 2 more young WRs to the mix- in fact if they wind up with one of the better WRs in the draft I wouldn't be shocked if they win OROY- the situation would certainly be ripe in Buffalo for it (Diggs takes a TON of targets in that offense- even if he wasn't efficient with them at all down the stretch).

Take a look at his stats as last year went along and tell me if this wasn't a GREAT move by the Bills. 

Diggs disappeared in a major way down the stretch last year.  Not sure if it was age, injury, he was in a bad headspace or what- but he was not the same player in the 2nd half of the season last year.  This move doesn't surprise me too much.  Bills now major players at the WR position in the draft (I'm sure this was also part of the calculus for them as the WR spot is STACKED in this draft, top to bottom IMO).

Brock Bowers at 6 would be a throw-the-remote pick for me.  With the kind of QB and WR talent that is guaranteed to be sitting there, picking a TE in that spot would be unthinkable for this team.

For the Penn State guys, I agreed with his takes on both Adisa Isaac and Chop Robinson.  Isaac, IMO, has a ton of upside potential- very high motor, still raw, really good athlete.  I think he'll make an impact as a rotational pass rusher right off the bat.  Cosell calls Chop the best edge in the draft and I agree.  PSU is gonna miss both of those guys next year (although they just moved a guy to DE that I like better than both these guys when he comes out- Abdul Carter...wears the same "honored" number at PSU as Micah Parsons and Lavar Arrington and may be next in line, IMO- keep an eye out on him this coming year). 

I went with other- I think Kayvon has a chance to break out with a legit edge on the other side taking a lot of attention off of him and of course Dex in the middle to do the same.  More than anything, I'm hoping that Burns can mentor the young man and show him some tips to take his pass rush game to the next level.

Shouldn't be too surprised at this, as the position itself is heavily drafted throughout every round.  Throw more darts, land more bullseyes.  Also first pick WRs are naturally going to worse team environments.

Quote from: jimc on March 28, 2024, 06:45:36 PMI believe they wanted to sign Barkley, but at their price. That is responsible stewardship. I think they were surprised that they couldn't.

I don't believe at 2-6 we were done. I don't know what would have gotten us into the playoffs, but you keep playing and trying until you can't. You owe it to your players and to all the other teams.

If you are not trying to win then the only thing you're doing is QUITTING.

Look, you have your opinion and I have mine.  Better to say that we agree to disagree on this point. No harm no foul.

Agree with this 100% and will add a few more points.

-Viewing the team in such a "macro" way feels a lot more like fantasy football/Madden type of thinking than actually running an NFL organization.  At 2-6, following a season in which the team had won a playoff game, is 100% not the time to trade away literally your only offensive weapon and the face of the franchise.  Doing so would have been a disaster- leading to a higher draft pick?  Sure.  Disastrous in every other way?  Yep.
-The fans that pay for tickets and spend all that money to go to games deserve a franchise that is trying to win
-Comparing the Giants throwing in the towel with NINE games left in the season to the Eagles tanking in the final game of the season for draft position is apples and oranges and intellectually dishonest.
-It seems obvious that the Giants were hoping the RB market this year would be similar to what it looked like when the bottom fell out the previous year.  They would have definitely signed Barkley back if that was the case.  But it wasn't....  In fact, DaveBrown and many others on this board thought the same thing and were proven 100% incorrect.  In their eyes we had a broken down RB about to hit a terrible RB market and so it would be smart to let him hit free agency and then try to sign him to a team friendly deal.  That turned out to be wrong.  Ob la di Ob la da.  It's ok to be wrong sometimes. 
-Guess what?  After all this chatter on this board over the last few years it actually looks like Barkley was the smartest one of all of us.  Got a tag for a good amount of $$ and then converted that to a deal that will set him up for the rest of his life- and in the process goes to a hometown team with actual offensive players and an OL around him, and to top it off he gets to stick it to all the fans who have weirdly turned on him. 

It will be interesting to see how he does next year, to say the least.  If he stays healthy, IMO- look out.  Top 3 RB for sure. 

They were never going to try and re-sign Leo.  They wanted to re-sign Barkley but the money wasn't going to match up once they found out that WHOOPS there actually was a large market for Saquon.

Makes plenty of sense.  And I happen to agree with it- I think it would be an awful look to just do a wholesale firesale at that point in the season.