Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: aBladeOfBlue on December 15, 2023, 07:53:40 AMI tought his success were unsustainable. But........it was before I saw the breakdown of the Hodgins TD.

We all saw the great throw on the run, but how about :
  -going through his progression.
  -evading the rush.
  -and like i said, making a throw right on the money, where only hodgins could have his hands on it.

Now I think it's sustainable. He does what Daboll ask of his QB's, do not make dangerous (stupid) throws. As long as he trusts the coaching staff, the coaching staff will continue to trust him.

Last observation from the Packers game, he threw the ball away. Nothing was there, he threw it away. He plays like a mature QB.

He is definitely exhibiting poise and maturity. He's been impressive relative to expectations. Before anyone saw him play in the preseason, by looking at his college career and considering he was undrafted, I can't imagine anyone had any sort of expectations for him. If he ends up being a solid, dependable backup, that's a huge beat of expectations. Think of all the QBs in the league who are "solid backups" who had very good to great college careers.

I don't personally love the comparisons to Victor Cruz, because Cruz played for UMass, which is a football school that is kind of off the grid and doesn't play good teams. DeVito played for two power five schools, so his track record is easier to analyze (ie he was up against respectable Big 10 and ACC competition throughout his career). Cruz was way more of an unknown.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 15, 2023, 07:45:17 AMDon't you find it odd the perceived O-line improvement coincides with a QB change?  I say perceived because the objectionable data suggest the line actually got worse, having allowed 8, 5, 9 and 6 sacks prior to last week's game.  Pressures have remained steady at 28% of passing downs.  Last week the pressures were on par with the average; yet, GB produced no sacks as a byproduct of some slick moves (in the pocket) by DeVito.  How many sure sacks did he avoid in the pocket...5?

Speaking of DeVito, I like his grit, mobility, and quick decision making; however, he has some tangible physical limitation that may prevent him from becoming a top-tier QB.  Regardless, I typically reserve judgement on QBs until they've started at least 20 games; my research indicates all QB demonstrate their skill-sets between games 23 – 30.  So, I'll continue to watch with a hopeful attitude that DeVito morphs into a Tony Romo like story.  Having said that, I do think his play has been inflated by a fan-base desperate for solid QB play, which is why some were fooled by DJ last season.  Fundamentally, if the Giants have a chance to draft a QB in '24, they should; retain Tommy as backup and release DJ in '25. 

For the record, poor protection is not the fault of the QB at least not in this case.


https://x.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1735464758776672542?s=20


https://x.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1735645893661991279?s=20

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 15, 2023, 08:15:12 AMHe is definitely exhibiting poise and maturity. He's been impressive relative to expectations. Before anyone saw him play in the preseason, by looking at his college career and considering he was undrafted, I can't imagine anyone had any sort of expectations for him. If he ends up being a solid, dependable backup, that's a huge beat of expectations. Think of all the QBs in the league who are "solid backups" who had very good to great college careers.

I don't personally love the comparisons to Victor Cruz, because Cruz played for UMass, which is a football
school that is kind of off the grid and doesn't play good teams. DeVito played for two power five schools, so his track record is easier to analyze (ie he was up against respectable Big 10 and ACC competition throughout his career). Cruz was way more of an unknown.

I agree the Cruz comparison is shady.

But I don't agree with the backup thing. We saw unspectacular, but efficient QBs start in this league throughout history. I think he can belong to this category. DeVito is not spectacular, but if he continues with the consistency and efficiency, the kid is going to be a starter in this league, especially in a league where QBs drop like flies.

As of right now, as he continues to improve as a game-manager, he's getting the call. If it's not with us, it's going to be with another team. If Trent Dilfer started a lot of games in this league, I think DeVito can.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 15, 2023, 08:27:56 AMFor the record, poor protection is not the fault of the QB at least not in this case.


https://x.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1735464758776672542?s=20


https://x.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1735645893661991279?s=20

I'm actually afraid that when Neal is ready, Daboll puts him back at RT and it shuts down the passing game. Too bad they can't loan him to the Eagles for a few months and have him come back a better player like Phillips. Which leads me to think a trade may be possible if teams know he's salvageable with proper coaching. I jest of course. But the fear is real.

To answer the question:

Most of TD's traits seem NFL caliber, and he certainly has the intangibles.  It would seem the real limiter would be TD's arm strength.  So, doing a bit of research, here are QBs with weaker arms who have enjoyed success:

1) Drew Brees
2) Tua Tagovailoa
3) DeShaun Watson
4) Brock Purdy
5) Matt Ryan

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 15, 2023, 08:51:33 AMI'm actually afraid that when Neal is ready, Daboll puts him back at RT and it shuts down the passing game. Too bad they can't loan him to the Eagles for a few months and have him come back a better player like Phillips. Which leads me to think a trade may be possible if teams know he's salvageable with proper coaching. I jest of course. But the fear is real.

Ed,

It's a tough situation, a sort of damned if you do/damned if you don't.  As you said, putting Neal back in could short-circuit the passing game again, but if you don't, you lose a chance to see if he is salvageable.

There were some fans who jumped the gun in the preseason and wanted DeVito as the backup. Now we have a couple that want him as the starter next season. We get these proclamations every season with some player and most times they don't pan out and they go on to the next wild assertion, hoping to be on the cutting edge with an Itoldyouso.

At some point we will see Defensive Coordinators use disguise, stunts and delayed blitzes in the A Gap and cutting off that right roll out. At some point he's going to have to hit those short crosses and slants because at some point Corners will start jumping those Swings and Flats. Then we will see how he adjusts. To this point they have held him back from throwing Deep Posts and Go Routes. Which makes me question his deep ball but Hyatt is still not being properly utilized. Green Bay was never in a Cover Two Shell all game.

The other thing I'm expecting is some reporter will start digging up dirt on his family and in something he did in College or High School. They will strike his family as opportunistic getting his name on products and merchandise while the iron is hot.

I actually think he has what it takes to survive and to be a starter in this league. It's going to come down to how high his ceiling is and if he can continue to learn and grow at the exponential rate that he's shown this year. I remember what he looked like his first couple of days at camp and how he got better every day. I believe in his case coming into the league as a mature adult with a large body of playing experience helped him. So far he's been absorbing like a sponge.

What I refuse to do is jump on a bandwagon and make wild assertions and predictions. It's more than fair to be balanced and review both the good and what needs improvement. Those game changing plays he left on the field have to be addressed and get him to see them develop early. That's the next step along with his Coaches being proactive in anticipation of what Defenses will start throwing at him.

Very well stated, Ed. A couple of things to tack onto your observation. First, defensive strategies against DJ have been studied, restudied, applied, fixed, adjusted, etc., to pinpoint any perceived weakness in his game and exploit it...not so with Devito. In fact, it's easy to surmise that defenses didn't get overly concerned with an undrafted QB entering the game and the defense strategically focused more on Saquon, chip passes to Wan'Dale, the possibility of Devito running with the ball, etc. Especially after Devito's first game, where he wasn't even allowed to throw a ball. Even after defensive coordinators eventually realized Tommy can throw the dang ball, they didn't respect that early in games and had to finally adjust after seeing what he can do before their very eyes. In short, defensive strategies will evolve that will make the game more difficult for Devito now that every DC in the NFL has seen his tape and replayed it over and over before facing him

On the other side of the coin though, is Devito's discernible poise and "spacial awareness" (a term coined by Daboll explaining why Wan'Dale can be special). We never hear about spacial awareness, but I believe that is a vital and instinctive intangible of a successful QB in the NFL. Mahommes, Allen, Burrow, etc., have it...as did Brady in his heyday. It's possible that DJ, with all the perfect elements of a great QB, from his arm, his height, foot speed, great accuracy, high intelligence, etc., but perhaps is lacking somewhat in that intangible spacial awareness aspect that separates the wheat from the chaff. I hope not, but I don't know, just thinking out loud and typing as I do 

I still think its a fluke. But here is a good film break down

When Tommy tells people "Listen I've been playing this game for a long time".
He is not kidding.  As I've said before DeVito likely did not just fall off a Pumpkin Wagon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0kyFiUo1FU

Explains how Tommy is so much better at reading the defenses, and getting the ball out so quick

Apparently this coach also worked with Will Levis

He does mention they were lucky Tommy was not drafted.   Giving them the ability to pick a destination.  a Lot of teams were interested when he left Syracuse for the portal  and after the draft .....both times they chose well

Daboll greatly responsibile for Tommy's NFL ability

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 14, 2023, 11:41:24 AMNo QB can be successful behind this OL 

Yeah. Our OL blocks worse than those electric football game pieces.

Quote from: aBladeOfBlue on December 15, 2023, 08:36:06 AMI agree the Cruz comparison is shady.

With all the respect in the world for you, I referenced both Cruz and Tyree but not for the reasons you are analyzing.

My intention was to point out that the Giants have done well signing local talent who eventually went on to play big roles in big games for them. I cited Tyree and Cruz in the last two Super Bowls and offered the possibility why not DeVito one day?

That's all. It was meant for consideration. But you are most welcome to comment as you like.

I don't believe we've exchanged posts before. I'm Chris, welcome aboard!

Peace!

RGIII makes a lot of sense in this interview. TD was the best thing for DJ. Jones will be the starting QB next season and he should not come back until he is at his best to do so. Having Tommy to start the season and as a backup in case Jones fails will be a good setup for the season. It give the Giants more opportunities to build the team that n the draft and not give away the farm to move up. It's a shame what happened to RG's career. It was badly mismanaged.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/sports/tommy-devito-best-thing-for-daniel-jones-giants-future-rgiii/amp/

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 16, 2023, 10:45:02 AMRGIII makes a lot of sense in this interview. TD was the best thing for DJ. Jones will be the starting QB next season and he should not come back until he is at his best to do so. Having Tommy to start the season and as a backup in case Jones fails will be a good setup for the season. It give the Giants more opportunities to build the team that n the draft and not give away the farm to move up. It's a shame what happened to RG's career. It was badly mismanaged.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/sports/tommy-devito-best-thing-for-daniel-jones-giants-future-rgiii/amp/

Article posted here to underscore @TDToomer point.

All i know is if he was a rookie starting the season like this, we'd all be very excited. IMO hes the second best rookie qb this year. he looks the part, but lets see what happens after a bad game, or against an elite defense. can he take the next step? can he take over a game?  i will say the poise he showed on the game winning drive was impressive. zero fear, zero panic. stood in there and made solid plays like a vet.