Big Blue Huddle

As you are aware, I listen to a lot of Giants and football podcasts.   As I listen to the beat reporters talk about Sterling Shepard (and his likely departure) I get a sense he means more to them than Shep means to the fans.

It seems to me that even though Shep seems like a great guy, he has been hurt so much during his Giants career that he is almost an afterthought among fans.  I think the beat reporters who got to spend more time with Shep are the ones who will really miss him.

I agree. I also think Shepard in some ways represents a lot of what's gone wrong with this organization over the last decade. The prioritization of personality and public relations over production. Shepard is a good guy and a good teammate. But he's been extremely unreliable and was given a big contract he didn't deserve. He shouldn't have made the roster this season but they kept him for sentimental reasons.

I wish him well in retirement. Nice guy. Unreliable. Overpaid for a time and overrated. Time to turn the page and move past the era of scholarships.

He's the kind of guy I hope the organization creates a position for after he retires as a player. Shepard embodies "Once a Giant, always a Giant"!

I have nothing against Shepard. He himself has done nothing wrong. He's a high effort guy who has been a great teammate and has played fearlessly and unselfishly.

My issue is with the team and the way it gets emotional about its own players and often engages in profligate behavior as a result of that.

If they feel particular affinity or loyalty to a given player, they can express that by offering that player employment opportunities after retirement, ring of honor, etc. To waste cap space and roster spots on players who are no longer up to scratch, purely for emotional reasons is not what an NFL team that is serious about winning should be doing.

I dont get how they kept Shepard and didnt use him.  Crowder would have been far more effective as a punt returner and probably also as a WR.  If they had an experienced returner on the roster then keeping Shepard could have made sense if he had anything left in the tank which he didn't.  For that matter, why not re-sign Richie James instead of Shepherd. 

When Shepard made the team, I thought they had lots of plays in the playbook for him. Clearly I was wrong.  Unfortunately, the most logical explanation for keeping an injury prone over the hill Wr at the expense of others who would add value suggests to me it came from Mara. 

Quote from: nb587 on January 06, 2024, 10:07:47 PMI dont get how they kept Shepard and didnt use him.  Crowder would have been far more effective as a punt returner and probably also as a WR.  If they had an experienced returner on the roster then keeping Shepard could have made sense if he had anything left in the tank which he didn't.  For that matter, why not re-sign Richie James instead of Shepherd. 

When Shepard made the team, I thought they had lots of plays in the playbook for him. Clearly I was wrong.  Unfortunately, the most logical explanation for keeping an injury prone over the hill Wr at the expense of others who would add value suggests to me it came from Mara. 

I think that is probably a reasonable assumption to make.

I suspect Schoen/Daboll have a tacit policy amongst themselves of "picking their battles" with Mara. If they throw him a bone on relatively small things like keeping Shep and not firing McGaughey, maybe they think that gives them more latitude on some of the bigger things like not caving to Barkley.

To your point though, the Shepard thing wasn't that small of a thing. Having Crowder or James there instead of him would have made a difference.

There were a lot of ifs going on. How would WDR come back after the injury? How would Jalin Hyatt progress? Would Waller hold up, which he didn't. Shep was a sure-handed Receiver and could run a full route tree. That's why they kept him. Beasley got injured and he was the backup quick game guy. Crowder is a good Special Teams guy but he can't be relied upon to do what Shep does. He's 31 this year so it's doubtful he will be back. I'm sure he was a mentor to the young Receivers as I saw him coaching them up at Training Camp.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 06, 2024, 04:08:07 PMI agree. I also think Shepard in some ways represents a lot of what's gone wrong with this organization over the last decade. The prioritization of personality and public relations over production. Shepard is a good guy and a good teammate. But he's been extremely unreliable and was given a big contract he didn't deserve. He shouldn't have made the roster this season but they kept him for sentimental reasons.

I wish him well in retirement. Nice guy. Unreliable. Overpaid for a time and overrated. Time to turn the page and move past the era of scholarships.

Outside of Shep the only drafted players who have been give extensions who are still on this team are Thomas, Dex, Slayton and Jones. You make it seem like every average player is getting some contract extension that they do not deserve. We are actually letting too many good players go like Julian Love who just made the Pro Bowl, which shatters the argument that none of them were worth re-signing.

SS is what we like to think of as a true Giant. He does what he is told, took countless hits over the middle and never, ever complained. Problem is, he took up a roster spot when we could have used it for other players who might have contributed a lot more.
Couldn't SS be put on the practice squad each week and if needed, brought up?

I wish him well and hope the Giants use his knowledge maybe for a coaching position.

Quote from: TDToomer on January 07, 2024, 11:32:58 AMOutside of Shep the only drafted players who have been give extensions who are still on this team are Thomas, Dex, Slayton and Jones. You make it seem like every average player is getting some contract extension that they do not deserve. We are actually letting too many good players go like Julian Love who just made the Pro Bowl, which shatters the argument that none of them were worth re-signing.

My point isn't about signing your best players to contract extensions. There were two egregious errors made with Shep in my opinion.

1.They signed Shep to a big extension while he still had another year and change on his contract. This was done immediately after trading OBJ and looked like Gettleman's attempt to manage the public relations aspect (i.e., we can live without OBJ, Shep is our guy). That contract made him one of the highest paid slot receivers at the time. He had the worst year of his career after that which made the contract look even worse.

2. They gave Shep a roster spot this year that he clearly didn't earn or deserve. Shep is so washed up that the team all but announced his retirement this week by telling the fans Shep would be the last player announced at the start of the game with the starters so he can get one final ovation. They could've figured out a way to get Shepard fan appreciation without tying up a roster spot for a full season. He played only 14% of snaps on offense this year and doesn't contribute on special teams. There was no logical reason he should've been given a roster spot.

Remember the last game of last season when they made the big spectacle of getting Kenny Golladay his first TD because everyone knew he wasn't playing in the playoffs and everyone knew his Giants career was effectively over?

This is bush league stuff done solely for public relations purposes. It has nothing to do with winning games or building a team.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 07, 2024, 12:10:58 PMMy point isn't about signing your best players to contract extensions. There were two egregious errors made with Shep in my opinion.

1.They signed Shep to a big extension while he still had another year and change on his contract. This was done immediately after trading OBJ and looked like Gettleman's attempt to manage the public relations aspect (i.e., we can live without OBJ, Shep is our guy). That contract made him one of the highest paid slot receivers at the time. He had the worst year of his career after that which made the contract look even worse.

2. They gave Shep a roster spot this year that he clearly didn't earn or deserve. Shep is so washed up that the team all but announced his retirement this week by telling the fans Shep would be the last player announced at the start of the game with the starters so he can get one final ovation. They could've figured out a way to get Shepard fan appreciation without tying up a roster spot for a full season. He played only 14% of snaps on offense this year and doesn't contribute on special teams. There was no logical reason he should've been given a roster spot.

Remember the last game of last season when they made the big spectacle of getting Kenny Golladay his first TD because everyone knew he wasn't playing in the playoffs and everyone knew his Giants career was effectively over?

This is bush league stuff done solely for public relations purposes. It has nothing to do with winning games or building a team.

That's all fine but don't make it out like the current and former GM were just handing out "scholorships" left and right. Shep deserved his first extension. It was reasonable and there is nothing wrong with taking care of a player a year early if you believe in them. Should we have waited till after tomorrow to extend Dex who would have the franchise tag card as a negotiating tool? We took care of Thomas 2 years before we had to since his 5th year option would have easily been picked up.

Quote from: TDToomer on January 07, 2024, 01:46:05 PMThat's all fine but don't make it out like the current and former GM were just handing out "scholorships" left and right. Shep deserved his first extension. It was reasonable and there is nothing wrong with taking care of a player a year early if you believe in them. Should we have waited till after tomorrow to extend Dex who would have the franchise tag card as a negotiating tool? We took care of Thomas 2 years before we had to since his 5th year option would have easily been picked up.

I got the term "on scholarship" from Carl Banks years back when he was still willing to criticize the organization. Banks used to say there were players on the roster who were only kept because they had a big name or because they were drafted. He called them scholarship players.

Sterling Shepard was clearly a scholarship player this year. 14% of snaps on offense and no contribution on special teams. It doesn't get much more egregious than that.

I disagree about the extension Gettleman gave him. Paying more than 20 million per year at the time for Shepard and Golden Tate to soften the public criticism of losing OBJ was malpractice. Defend Gettleman all you want. I thought it was an idiotic decision at the time and I stand by that.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 07, 2024, 02:03:00 PMI got the term "on scholarship" from Carl Banks years back when he was still willing to criticize the organization. Banks used to say there were players on the roster who were only kept because they had a big name or because they were drafted. He called them scholarship players.

Sterling Shepard was clearly a scholarship player this year. 14% of snaps on offense and no contribution on special teams. It doesn't get much more egregious than that.

I disagree about the extension Gettleman gave him. Paying more than 20 million per year at the time for Shepard and Golden Tate to soften the public criticism of losing OBJ was malpractice. Defend Gettleman all you want. I thought it was an idiotic decision at the time and I stand by that.

So I guess Eli Manning was a scholarship player. The Giants held onto him about 2 years 2 long. I am not defending Gettleman. He was a lying you know what who extended OBJ, said he wasn't signed to trade him and then traded him and replace him with Golden Tate and Kenny Golladay. I am just curious as to who are all these other "scholarship" players that Banks is talking about outside of Shep. You have only given 1 example!

I feel like the departure of a favored substitute teacher rather than the departure of your favorite teacher.

Quote from: TDToomer on January 07, 2024, 03:22:04 PMSo I guess Eli Manning was a scholarship player. The Giants held onto him about 2 years 2 long. I am not defending Gettleman. He was a lying you know what who extended OBJ, said he wasn't signed to trade him and then traded him and replace him with Golden Tate and Kenny Golladay. I am just curious as to who are all these other "scholarship" players that Banks is talking about outside of Shep. You have only given 1 example!

If I recall correctly, the guys Banks used to talk about as scholarship guys were guys like Ximines, Hosley, Jernigan, Brewer, Cooper Taylor. Guys like that. Banks doesn't share info like this anymore so it's hard to know where he really stands on this new generation of young players.

There was also the Jonathan Stewart fiasco where a washed player was paid over 3 million to be a locker room informant.

You aren't going to find a lot of examples of players being paid to not play (who aren't being developed). What they did with Sterling Shepard this year amounts to a parting gift. This, I think, is unusual in the NFL.