Big Blue Huddle

General Category => Big Blue Huddle => Topic started by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 09:51:33 AM

Title: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 09:51:33 AM
favor.


The 33rd Team
@The33rdTeamFB
"There is no question he possesses the physical traits to develop into a quality NFL QB with a chance to be one of 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙗𝙚𝙨𝙩."

@gregcosell
's scouting report on UNC QB Drake Maye ✍️

𝗦𝗧𝗥𝗘𝗡𝗚𝗧𝗛𝗦

- Desirable combination of size, throwing ability and athleticism. Possesses the needed traits of an NFL QB.
- Easy natural thrower with minimal effort. Could drive the ball down the field: Knee bend, hips and core torque.
- Explosive arm talent with the traits to make every throw. Can drive the ball at all levels with velocity and touch.
- Aggressively worked between the hashes with refined sense of timing and anticipation, velocity and firm touch.
- Threw with velocity when demanded and pace and touch when needed.
- Showed subtle pocket movement with two hands on the ball. Re-set his throwing platform with a firm base.
- Good athlete who can make second reaction plays, throwing and running. Also designed QB run game.
-Second reaction playmaking dimension with outstanding poise and composure outside the pocket on the move.
- Strong mental framework reflected in that bad plays did not affect him. Came right back and made good plays.
- 2023 – It is evident from tape that Maye can execute a drop back passing game with efficiency at all levels.
- Outstanding go ball and fade ball thrower, with precise ball placement, especially with no margin for error.
- Showed poise and composure to trust and work comfortably through progressions. Stayed sound in the pocket.
- Snaps he started to move then re-settled, getting his feet under him with a firm base and delivering cleanly.
- Consistently played with a calm helmet. It was evident he knew what he was seeing and how to process it.
- Poise and patience to move within the pocket when primary read was taken away to work to secondary reads.

𝗪𝗘𝗔𝗞𝗡𝗘𝗦𝗦𝗘𝗦

- At times, he drifted in the pocket to his left when there was no pressure and no reason to move off the mid-line.
- Consistently showed a tendency to drift rather than stay in the pocket. Created his own pressure at times.
- At times, he was tentative in the pocket. He did not turn it loose when throws were there. Must become more decisive.
- Too many dropbacks in which he left throws on the field. Needs to process and isolate quicker from the pocket.
- At this point, he lacks a refined sense of timing-anticipation, resulting in throws that aren't made that should be.
- 2023 – Still showed tendency at times not to register and process reads, leaving clean throws on the field.
- Still too many snaps he drifted to his left when there was no pressure.
- There were a few too many misreads where he didn't process the route concept versus the coverage correctly.
- Needs to develop a better feel for pocket movement rather than running out of the pocket. Higher-level trait.
- While he threw outstanding deep ball, must become more location precise on intermediate and shorter throws.

https://x.com/The33rdTeamFB/status/1773338630267761105?s=20
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Philosophers on March 28, 2024, 09:57:27 AM
The things listed above that Maye supposedly scare me sound like DJ things which I dont want to see again.  Mental processing miscues.  No thanks.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: UKGiantsFan on March 28, 2024, 09:57:44 AM
Yeah but his Pro Day is today and his is the last one of "the big four". I'd imagine we'll hear about him non-stop for a week thereafter  ;)
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: H-Town G-Fan on March 28, 2024, 10:05:05 AM
Maybe if he only threw it 10-15 times per game there'd be less tape to be critical of his processing? If he falls to 6, I'd take him, but I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 10:18:19 AM
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on March 28, 2024, 10:05:05 AMMaybe if he only threw it 10-15 times per game there'd be less tape to be critical of his processing? If he falls to 6, I'd take him, but I don't see it happening.

There are many ways to evaluate a QB, but this particular way (he threw too many passes, that's why he looks flawed) wouldn't be among the ways I would choose to evaluate one.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 10:18:45 AM
https://x.com/AlbertBreer/status/1773353428330180734?s=20
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: H-Town G-Fan on March 28, 2024, 10:26:39 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 10:18:19 AMThere are many ways to evaluate a QB, but this particular way (he threw too many passes, that's why he looks flawed) wouldn't be among the ways I would choose to evaluate one.

It was a lighthearted joke about McCarthy being immunized from potentially similar volume-based criticism.

I do think Maye is somewhat the victim of prospect fatigue and this is the time of year where hopeful teams farther down in the draft order start putting out their disinformation to try and cause drops on desirable targets.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on March 28, 2024, 10:26:39 AMIt was a lighthearted joke about McCarthy being immunized from potentially similar volume-based criticism.

I do think Maye is somewhat the victim of prospect fatigue and this is the time of year where hopeful teams farther down in the draft order start putting out their disinformation to try and cause drops on desirable targets.

McCarthy attempted 713 passes in college.  He has done so against some of the best defenses in college and in high-pressure situations.   I'm not sure how one couldn't evaluate a man with that body of work.

As for Maye, I keep hearing that he is scattered shot in his throwing, while others point to generally poor performances when he faces quality teams.

I personally wouldn't rule out Maye becoming a quality NFL QB, but I am sharing that when the draft season started, there was some talk that Maye should be the number one prospect, and since then, there seems to be a steady decline in how he is viewed (sort of a reverse of JJ McCarthy).

I find far too many in the draftnik and fan communities are production scouts rather than projection (of NLF caliber traits) scouts.  With Maye, it's not hard to see he has an NFL-plus caliber arm and good size, as well as the upside expectations that come with being younger and less experienced.

Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: uconnjack8 on March 28, 2024, 10:57:55 AM
Is it the interviews changing some minds?
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 10:58:54 AM
Here is a deeper dive by Greg

https://www.the33rdteam.com/drake-maye-nfl-draft-2024-combine-results-scouting-report-for-north-carolina-qb/


There is also a video by former NFL QB Chase Daniels on Maye

https://www.the33rdteam.com/daniel-very-raw-drake-maye-not-ready-to-start-in-nfl/
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on March 28, 2024, 11:12:40 AM
I read somewhere several weeks ago by some beat writer (so this info is useless) that Maye is DJ 2.0  :-??
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Puffy on March 28, 2024, 11:20:24 AM
This is same thing that happened to Josh Allen.  After College Football season ended it was thought that Allen would be top 4 pick. Then everyone started picking nits and Allen fell.  Right before draft the buzz picked up a little again and he only fell to 7.

Not saying that Maye is Allen....but this type of over-analysis happens every year.  Lamar fell almost entirely out of first round after being projected Top 10 or 12 when season ended.

Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: londonblue on March 28, 2024, 11:37:27 AM
As Mighty notes elsewhere this draft has more QBs of interest and more teams in need than in the last couple of years. This inevitably increases media and fan interest.

That means more words. Lots of opinions. Lots of conflicting points of view. Complete contradictions (eg the Giants are simultaneously set at QB and done with our QB).

Each day more and more smoke rolls across the football universe, obscuring reality from view. There are articles, tweets, tv sound bites and pod casts/video hot takes supporting every opinion imaginable (and a few so wild they might better belong on a satirical late night comedy show).

We will get to see the reality in four weeks time. Until then we all have our opinion which is great providing we don't try to pass it off as fact. FWIW I think it is 90% likely we take either a QB or WR in R1 but I still see a 10% chance of a trade back with a CB being our pick...so watch us draft a tackle!
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 28, 2024, 12:06:11 PM
Quote from: londonblue on March 28, 2024, 11:37:27 AMAs Mighty notes elsewhere this draft has more QBs of interest and more teams in need than in the last couple of years. This inevitably increases media and fan interest.

That means more words. Lots of opinions. Lots of conflicting points of view. Complete contradictions (eg the Giants are simultaneously set at QB and done with our QB).

Each day more and more smoke rolls across the football universe, obscuring reality from view. There are articles, tweets, tv sound bites and pod casts/video hot takes supporting every opinion imaginable (and a few so wild they might better belong on a satirical late night comedy show).

We will get to see the reality in four weeks time. Until then we all have our opinion which is great providing we don't try to pass it off as fact. FWIW I think it is 90% likely we take either a QB or WR in R1 but I still see a 10% chance of a trade back with a CB being our pick...so watch us draft a tackle!
Or a Cornerback.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Philosophers on March 28, 2024, 12:40:19 PM
At the end of the day the things you cant teach a QB are accuracy, mental processing speed, awareness and confidence.  They have to have it themselves.  All this other stuff like throws off a good platform is noise.  If he's accurate, he can throw it standing on his head for all I care.  Joe Milton has great mechanics yet he can't hit an oak tree from 15 yards out.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 12:45:48 PM
Quote from: Philosophers on March 28, 2024, 12:40:19 PMAt the end of the day the things you cant teach a QB are accuracy, mental processing speed, awareness and confidence.  They have to have it themselves.  All this other stuff like throws off a good platform is noise.  If he's accurate, he can throw it standing on his head for all I care.  Joe Milton has great mechanics yet he can't hit an oak tree from 15 yards out.

While it's mostly true that accuracy will not improve when a QB goes from college to the NFL, Josh Allen showed there can be exceptions.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 02:30:16 PM
https://x.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1773402785628696647?s=20
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 02:47:58 PM
https://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1773420886852325804?s=20
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Jclayton92 on March 28, 2024, 04:06:53 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 10:35:30 AMMcCarthy attempted 713 passes in college.  He has done so against some of the best defenses in college and in high-pressure situations.   I'm not sure how one couldn't evaluate a man with that body of work.

As for Maye, I keep hearing that he is scattered shot in his throwing, while others point to generally poor performances when he faces quality teams.

I personally wouldn't rule out Maye becoming a quality NFL QB, but I am sharing that when the draft season started, there was some talk that Maye should be the number one prospect, and since then, there seems to be a steady decline in how he is viewed (sort of a reverse of JJ McCarthy).

I find far too many in the draftnik and fan communities are production scouts rather than projection (of NLF caliber traits) scouts.  With Maye, it's not hard to see he has an NFL-plus caliber arm and good size, as well as the upside expectations that come with being younger and less experienced.


I think Maye has a better chance of being Sam Howell/ D Jones than Mccarthy.

Mayes losses vs bad teams is alarming to me.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 06:48:03 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 10:35:30 AMMcCarthy attempted 713 passes in college.  He has done so against some of the best defenses in college and in high-pressure situations.   I'm not sure how one couldn't evaluate a man with that body of work.

I agree. Which is why it's perplexing to me that some fans feel they still haven't yet seen enough of Daniel Jones (1900 NFL passing attempts) to make a concrete evaluation of him.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 07:24:02 PM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 06:48:03 PMI agree. Which is why it's perplexing to me that some fans feel they still haven't yet seen enough of Daniel Jones (1900 NFL passing attempts) to make a concrete evaluation of him.

Are you saying Schoen and Daboll didn't properly evaluate DJ before signing him to a big contract?
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 07:33:19 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 07:24:02 PMAre you saying Schoen and Daboll didn't properly evaluate DJ before signing him to a big contract?

I think they were feeling pressure from above to make sure both Jones and Barkley remained Giants in 2023. I think the combination of that, plus the fact that there weren't really easy or obvious alternatives, led them to their decision. I don't think they were ever sky high on Jones. It was a confluence of circumstances (mainly the above) that led to the decision, and the contract they gave him, while very substantial, was structured in a way that they weren't tied to him for nearly as long as most teams tie themselves to QBs who get big second contracts.

Looking at how things have played out since the decision, I would say there is little doubt that they now wish they had franchised Jones and just signed Barkley to a three year deal with a two year out.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 07:45:52 PM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 07:33:19 PMI think they were feeling pressure from above to make sure both Jones and Barkley remained Giants in 2023. I think the combination of that, plus the fact that there weren't really easy or obvious alternatives, led them to their decision. I don't think they were ever sky high on Jones. It was a confluence of circumstances (mainly the above) that led to the decision, and the contract they gave him, while very substantial, was structured in a way that they weren't tied to him for nearly as long as most teams tie themselves to QBs who get big second contracts.

Looking at how things have played out since the decision, I would say there is little doubt that they now wish they had franchised Jones and just signed Barkley to a three year deal with a two year out.

The benefits of hindsight.   Unfortunately injuries can be unpredictable, especially if you have a subpar medical department and you fail to protect your franchise QB
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 08:31:04 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 28, 2024, 07:45:52 PMThe benefits of hindsight.  Unfortunately injuries can be unpredictable, especially if you have a subpar medical department and you fail to protect your franchise QB

I am not sure how unpredictable they are when you're talking about a guy who had missed multiple games due to significant injuries in three out of his four seasons as a pro.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: AZGiantFan on March 29, 2024, 02:01:31 AM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 06:48:03 PMI agree. Which is why it's perplexing to me that some fans feel they still haven't yet seen enough of Daniel Jones (1900 NFL passing attempts) to make a concrete evaluation of him.

I think it has something to do with the fact that he never had a minimally adequate O-line to play behind and barely mediocre receivers to throw to.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 29, 2024, 07:08:48 AM
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 08:31:04 PMI am not sure how unpredictable they are when you're talking about a guy who had missed multiple games due to significant injuries in three out of his four seasons as a pro.

Jeff,

First, I can't fault NYG for the ACL.  Those can happen at any time to any player.  What I fault Ronnie Barnes for (the GM counts on his medical people to tell them if a player is too risky to sign) is the repeat neck injury.   In any football organization, the medical people develop risk models and develop grades on how likely a player is going to be injured moving forward.   With signings like DJ's, the trade for Waller, and the re-signing of Shepard, it's hard not to look at NYG and see a very flawed model being employed or incompetent people employing that model.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 29, 2024, 11:50:32 AM
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 29, 2024, 12:06:55 PM
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 30, 2024, 07:22:32 AM
Drake Maye coming in this week for a workout.

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/03/29/new-york-giants-visit-qb-drake-maye-workout-2024-nfl-draft/
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: londonblue on March 30, 2024, 07:37:49 AM
If Maye falls to 6 I would be astonished if we did not turn in our card in record time. His high ceiling, low floor, big body, hero ball mentality simply has to remind Daboll and Schoen of Allen. This does not mean he is or will be Allen level in NFL but to me of all the QB in this draft he is the one I think fits our HC most. Of course all the talking him down in the media may be BS and he might well go 2 or 3 with us never having a sniff at him.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 30, 2024, 07:54:21 AM
Quote from: londonblue on March 30, 2024, 07:37:49 AMIf Maye falls to 6 I would be astonished if we did not turn in our card in record time. His high ceiling, low floor, big body, hero ball mentality simply has to remind Daboll and Schoen of Allen. This does not mean he is or will be Allen level in NFL but to me of all the QB in this draft he is the one I think fits our HC most. Of course all the talking him down in the media may be BS and he might well go 2 or 3 with us never having a sniff at him.

I think one thing that is forgotten in the Josh Allen comparisons is just how big of an anomaly Josh Allen really was.   Josh Allen was very inaccurate in college despite his big arm (similar to Maye).  Josh did what is really seen over the past decades: an inaccurate college QB improved his accuracy at the next level.   Historically, QBs tend to be less accurate (or the same), and the next level, they don't improve.  By the NFL, their throwing mechanics are essentially ingrained.   

Drafting Maye thinking he will be another Josh Allen is like expecting lightning to strike twice.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 30, 2024, 08:53:15 AM
At almost 6'5 Maye will fill in and bulk up his 230 frame but I don't see him doing some of the Superman stunts that Josh Allen does. Allen had basic mechanics issues that were obviously correctable. Maye is working on his feet and strides as evidenced in his Pro Day, although he doesn't have that extra hop step a couple of QBs have a bad habit of in this draft. He's going to need to shorten his wind-up at the next level on the quick game. What he excells at is he throws a nice catchable ball and adjusts angles at different levels. His arm on deep throws would have Jalin Hyatt salivating if he were drafted. They would have a good chance of holding up in the fall winds and cold of the Meadowlands. He reminds me more of Andrew Luck than Josh Allen. Go back and watch some AL film. Beautiful angled passes with a soft touch at all levels.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: katkavage on March 30, 2024, 09:00:57 AM
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 30, 2024, 08:53:15 AMAt almost 6'5 Maye will fill in and bulk up his 230 frame but I don't see him doing some of the Superman stunts that Josh Allen does. Allen had basic mechanics issues that were obviously correctable. Maye is working on his feet and strides as evidenced in his Pro Day, although he doesn't have that extra hop step a couple of QBs have a bad habit of in this draft. He's going to need to shorten his wind-up at the next level on the quick game. What he excells at is he throws a nice catchable ball and adjusts angles at different levels. His arm on deep throws would have Jalin Hyatt salivating if he were drafted. They would have a good chance of holding up in the fall winds and cold of the Meadowlands. He reminds me more of Andrew Luck than Josh Allen. Go back and watch some AL film. Beautiful angled passes with a soft touch at all levels.
I was listening to The Athletic podcast about these QBs. They mentioned that Maye was a three sport athlete in high school and didn't give up those sports to hone the QB craft like many do now, working with coaches and going to camps from 6th grade on. Not sure if that means anything here but I found it interesting and refreshing.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: DaveBrown74 on March 30, 2024, 09:50:50 AM
I see Maye as more like a Big Ben than a Josh Allen myself. Early in his career, Ben was mobile but he was never like Josh Allen with his legs. I think Maye will look more like Ben in terms of his in-pocket movements and his scrambling ability. I'm not saying he'll be as good as Ben as a passer, but he has that kind of "sling it all around the playground" mindset in his game the way Ben did.

We'll see how good he actually becomes. Everyone here such firm views on all these prospects like they already know the outcome. It makes me chuckle how certain everyone seems. The reality is there is a huge range of possibilities with all these players, and nobody remotely knows where any of them will land, including people employed in the league who are more qualified than any of us to make these judgments.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 30, 2024, 04:44:51 PM
https://x.com/PhilSimmsQB/status/1774140982486872299?s=20
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: uconnjack8 on March 30, 2024, 04:48:21 PM
Serious question:  What does a guy like Simms see in the throwing part of pro-day?  Its scripted throws in shorts with no defense.  Do people really walk away from those impressed?  It's a dog and pony show
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 30, 2024, 06:37:33 PM
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 30, 2024, 04:48:21 PMSerious question:  What does a guy like Simms see in the throwing part of pro-day?  Its scripted throws in shorts with no defense.  Do people really walk away from those impressed?  It's a dog and pony show
You compare them to the other pro days. Look to see if there are any improvements in what has been flagged from the season. There was a drop-off in play by Maye from 2022 to 2023 so what were the factors besides losing his top receiver for several games and the drop in talent around around him?
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 31, 2024, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 30, 2024, 04:48:21 PMSerious question:  What does a guy like Simms see in the throwing part of pro-day?  Its scripted throws in shorts with no defense.  Do people really walk away from those impressed?  It's a dog and pony show

Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: AYM on March 31, 2024, 08:53:29 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 30, 2024, 07:54:21 AMI think one thing that is forgotten in the Josh Allen comparisons is just how big of an anomaly Josh Allen really was.   Josh Allen was very inaccurate in college despite his big arm (similar to Maye).  Josh did what is really seen over the past decades: an inaccurate college QB improved his accuracy at the next level.   Historically, QBs tend to be less accurate (or the same), and the next level, they don't improve.  By the NFL, their throwing mechanics are essentially ingrained.   

Drafting Maye thinking he will be another Josh Allen is like expecting lightning to strike twice.

Wasn't Josh Allen inaccurate in college because his receivers set records for dropped balls?
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 31, 2024, 08:58:41 AM
Quote from: AYM on March 31, 2024, 08:53:29 AMWasn't Josh Allen inaccurate in college because his receivers set records for dropped balls?

Quick answer, no

Remember, adjusted completion percentage factors in drops.

https://x.com/PFF_Steve/status/985357291468701696?s=20

and this article goes deeper into it

https://www.cover1.net/nfl-draft-analytic-breakdown-josh-allens-completion-percentage/
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 31, 2024, 09:20:03 AM
Eli Manning and Brett Farve had bad College Completion %'s and went on to improve. In fact Eli improved when McAdoo came on board with his Offense and Coaching. There are likely many examples of improved mechanics and a shorter passing game that Improved stats. Take a look at Bo Nix from Auburn to Oregon. QB's who throw deeper and in shorter windows also tend to have a lower completion percentage.

Not that any of this matters because the Giants may wind up facing Drake Maye twice a year as he carves up their secondary.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 31, 2024, 09:26:46 AM
Mike Renner, the lead draft analyst at Pro Football Focus, says Allen's development changed the way he judges quarterback prospects—to a degree. He's now willing to give greater looks to flawed players who have higher-end upside. But Renner also points to Christian Hackenberg and Drew Lock as cautionary tales of teams chasing quarterbacks with big arms and big frames despite accuracy issues. Both players were second-round picks. Hackenberg flamed out of the league without ever playing a down, while Lock finished dead last in completion percentage last season. (Sound familiar?) Looking at Allen's rise as proof that a player like Lock—or a future prospect with accuracy issues—can succeed may be missing the forest for the trees.

https://www.theringer.com/2021/4/28/22406266/quarterback-development-nfl-draft-josh-allen-buffalo-bills
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: spiderblue43 on March 31, 2024, 09:49:29 AM
If Maye falls to 6, how can the Giants not take him? They can grab a wr (a true boundary one) and a cb with the first three picks.

Still cant believe he'll fall that far.  The JJ train seems to be no stopping, now maybe to # 2? Crazy. :crazy:
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 31, 2024, 09:56:15 AM
Quote from: spiderblue43 on March 31, 2024, 09:49:29 AMIf Maye falls to 6, how can the Giants not take him? They can grab a wr (a true boundary one) and a cb with the first three picks.

Still cant believe he'll fall that far.  The JJ train seems to be no stopping, now maybe to # 2? Crazy. :crazy:
That's the thing. It's very possible the Giants sit at six and take a QB of the top four or if one isn't there, a WR. Although I can see them drafting Bo Nix at six and shock the world if the other four are taken. Even if their predraft interest shows otherwise.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 31, 2024, 10:01:06 AM
Josh Allen's CP has been up and down and his style as a gunslinger holds him back some years where he tries to do to get much. JJ and Daniels showed improvement in their college years. It's not improbable at all.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on March 31, 2024, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 31, 2024, 10:01:06 AMJosh Allen's CP has been up and down and his style as a gunslinger holds him back some years where he tries to do to get much. JJ and Daniels showed improvement in their college years. It's not improbable at all.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 31, 2024, 10:09:19 AM
The most common statistic to determine accuracy is completion percentage. Of course, it does not completely account for accuracy because the simple calculation of completion percentage cannot account for the fact that certain quarterbacks attempt more difficult throws than others.

https://bestballstats.com/2021/04/17/nfl-draft-the-stats-that-correlate-to-quarterback-success/
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on March 31, 2024, 10:35:39 AM
Drake Maye FULL Pro Day Highlights: Every Throw



Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Philosophers on March 31, 2024, 10:40:43 AM
The challenge I have is evakuating a player being behind a good college OL then gets drafted 3rd and goes to a team with a bad OL.  In college he may have a good completion % but it may be a different story playing behind a bad NFL OL.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on April 01, 2024, 11:46:01 AM
https://x.com/CSimmsQB/status/1774819438744805866?s=20
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: T200 on April 01, 2024, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 30, 2024, 07:54:21 AMI think one thing that is forgotten in the Josh Allen comparisons is just how big of an anomaly Josh Allen really was.   Josh Allen was very inaccurate in college despite his big arm (similar to Maye).  Josh did what is really seen over the past decades: an inaccurate college QB improved his accuracy at the next level.   Historically, QBs tend to be less accurate (or the same), and the next level, they don't improve.  By the NFL, their throwing mechanics are essentially ingrained.   

Drafting Maye thinking he will be another Josh Allen is like expecting lightning to strike twice.
Who was Allen's OC when he came into the league?  ;)
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: uconnjack8 on April 01, 2024, 06:26:58 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 01, 2024, 11:46:01 AMhttps://x.com/CSimmsQB/status/1774819438744805866?s=20

Is the general opinion of Maye in agreement with Simms assessment? 

Seems like if it is, he may be left after picks 1-3.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Gman329 on April 01, 2024, 11:02:14 PM
What scares me about that scouting report on Maye: leaves too many throws on the field, won't pull the trigger. Sounds a lot like DJ.  BUT.....if the Giants have the same read and he's there at 6, it will take some beeeeeg balls to pass on him.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: B1GBLUE on April 02, 2024, 07:05:40 AM
the negatives sound an awful lot like daniel jones. so it seems like hes daniel jones who might throw more yards/td's.

idk. idk if i like it.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: katkavage on April 02, 2024, 07:25:56 AM
Right now these prospects are getting dissected every way possible by countless scouts and pundits like Simms. As you dissect, you will always find flaws. That's not to say those flaws are not fixable or should warn a team from drafting the prospect. But let's take a deep breath and hope that Schoen and company know what they are doing when they evaluate these prospects. And let's admit none of us know a thing about how to evaluate at the same level. It's easy to blog or post about someone with no consequences. There are big consequences in the decision Schoen makes later this month. I'll go with his evaluation right now, for better or worse. Time will tell whether his decision was a good or bad one.   
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: Ed Vette on April 02, 2024, 07:56:03 AM
Maybe missed two throws out of 70 passes. Chris Simms was born on third base and thought he hit a triple. Is that a fair contrast?
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on April 02, 2024, 08:58:54 AM
https://x.com/NBCSBoston/status/1774953794943492537?s=20
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: T200 on April 02, 2024, 09:00:25 AM
Quote from: Gman329 on April 01, 2024, 11:02:14 PMWhat scares me about that scouting report on Maye: leaves too many throws on the field, won't pull the trigger. Sounds a lot like DJ.  BUT.....if the Giants have the same read and he's there at 6, it will take some beeeeeg balls to pass on him.
Keep in mind, these kids are drafted partly on what they've done in college as well as their pro potential. He will learn and get better.

I was all for Jones when he was drafted. We didn't have the line to protect him, nor the coaching continuity. Now he's shot. I don't see him recovering with this organization.

Even if Maye is Jones 2.0 from a talent standpoint, he's not shot. He's a rookie who doesn't know what he doesn't know. He's gonna be fearless and let the ball fly, something Jones can't do. I also am optimistic about the new line additions (coaching and players) because why not.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: uconnjack8 on April 02, 2024, 09:01:56 AM
So is the assumption that if Maye is the odd man out of the top 3, then he is potentially the Giants next QB?
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on April 02, 2024, 01:20:58 PM
Here is an excellent article on accuracy of the 2024 QB class


https://www.the33rdteam.com/what-does-accuracy-tell-us-about-the-2024-quarterback-draft-class/
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: AZGiantFan on April 02, 2024, 01:30:43 PM
Quote from: katkavage on April 02, 2024, 07:25:56 AMRight now these prospects are getting dissected every way possible by countless scouts and pundits like Simms. As you dissect, you will always find flaws. That's not to say those flaws are not fixable or should warn a team from drafting the prospect. But let's take a deep breath and hope that Schoen and company know what they are doing when they evaluate these prospects. And let's admit none of us know a thing about how to evaluate at the same level. It's easy to blog or post about someone with no consequences. There are big consequences in the decision Schoen makes later this month. I'll go with his evaluation right now, for better or worse. Time will tell whether his decision was a good or bad one.   

Considering the failure rate of highly drafted QBs there is good reason to take flaws seriously.
Title: Re: As I listen to the daily draft chatter, Drake Maye seems to be falling out of
Post by: MightyGiants on April 02, 2024, 02:33:49 PM
Betting odds shift toward Drake Maye over Jayden Daniels as favorite for No. 2 pick


https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/betting-odds-shift-toward-drake-maye-over-jayden-daniels-as-favorite-for-no-2-pick