Rank your top five...
Lombardi
Landry
Belicheck
Halas
Noll
Thanks for sharing Jim.
I've been trying to figure out the best I've seen. I think Belichick has established himself as the best. But after that, it gets tough.
I can't decide between Walsh, Parcells, and Gibbs. Recently I've been seeing Gibbs as underrated. With all the talk these days about needing a franchise QB to win, he won 3 Super Bowls over 10 years with three different guys, none of whom were anything special. He also didn't have any hall of famers on defense. Pretty impressive.
I have watched and read a lot about Noll, Landry, and Lombardi. They each were very fascinating personalities in addition to being great coaches. Particularly Noll, who interests me because apparently he had diverse interests. He wasn't the all-football, sleep-in-your-office type of today.
What do you think of Shula? Was Halas better than Paul Brown? Who do you think was the Giants' best head coach?
Well, Matt, I had a hard time listing Lombardi, Landry & Belicheck because I thought you might look at me as a "homer." After all, they all started on the Giants. I was on the tip of naming Stout Steve Owen; that would've completed the "homerism." So, I named Halas instead. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even think of Paul Brown. Maybe I should've picked him over Noll. In my lifetime as a Giant fan, I'd have to say the best HC was Jim Lee Howell; his Ass't Coaches were Lombardi & Landry & he let them do their thing. After Howell, I'd say Parcells.
I know Lombardi is a legend and such, but overall, look at the team he had to play with. He had basically all stars at every position. He may be a legend, but I do not think he was the best coach ever.
It is really hard to rate coaches I have never seen.
IN my lifetime in no prticulat order
Parcels--to me he could be #1. He won every whrre he went. Yes, he never won another SB, but he came in to 4 different teams and bsically took every one to a championship game, ort improved that tream so much that they were a complete opposite from when he took over
Belechick==his recorde speaks for itself but I would love to see how he would rate without Brady
Shula== a much underated coach who was basically brilliant
Walsh== Just so inventive
Noll/Lombardi/Weeb Ewbanks/Halas/Cowher to m, all great coches, just not in the top 5.
Really, my idea of an all time great coach is one who has done it more than once. Many coaches are great when they have great players, but what happens when those players leae ot the coach goes to a different team. Coachs like Parcels, Shula, Even Ewbanks did it with several teams and still had great results.
Any list needs to start with Bill Belichick. He
Quote from: LennG on October 20, 2018, 08:45:20 PM
Do you really think so?
How would he be if he didn't have Brady? I understand he is a defensive genius and knows when to sign guys and when its time to move on from others. That is what makes him a great coach. But he always has had maybe the best QB ever to play the game. That helps.
Lenny, which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Quote from: jimv on October 20, 2018, 10:36:59 PM
Lenny, which came first, the chicken or the egg?
In BBs case, Brady = SB wins = best coach ever
Belichick
Brown
Walsh-Parcells tie.
Madden
Lombardi
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Quote from: LennG on October 24, 2018, 08:51:38 PM
Do you really think so? Marino=Brady??
I fully agree BB has a solid football mind and knows when to bring in veterans, rejects et al and get production out of them and also when to release players when their time in NE is seemingly over. For that, yes, he may be a genius level, but winning still comes down to having the best QB to ever play the game. That makes average coaches great.
I do think so. I also think that without Tom Coughlin, the Giants never get into any of the two Super Bowls they won. His attention to detail and preparation got them in. Do you think Pat Shurmur could have done that?
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I see a lot of Walsh-Parcells, which seems to be the consensus regarding that era. My question is about Gibbs. What sets him on a second tier in most people's minds?
Gibbs...
...won three Super Bowls (equal to Walsh, one more than Parcells), and went to four.
...never coached a great QB. In fact, he won with three different guys, two I don't think you could even call good, period.
...never had an all-time great defense, or a hall of fame defensive player, right?
...was arguably as innovative within Coryell's lineage as Walsh was in Brown's.
...had record-breaking offenses, but his famous receiving and OL units actually had several different players come through them
Quote from: Mr. Matt on October 25, 2018, 01:56:33 PM
I see a lot of Walsh-Parcells, which seems to be the consensus regarding that era. My question is about Gibbs. What sets him on a second tier in most people's minds?
Gibbs...
...won three Super Bowls (equal to Walsh, one more than Parcells), and went to four.
...never coached a great QB. In fact, he won with three different guys, two I don't think you could even call good, period.
...never had an all-time great defense, or a hall of fame defensive player, right?
...was arguably as innovative within Coryell's lineage as Walsh was in Brown's.
...had record-breaking offenses, but his famous receiving and OL units actually had several different players come through them
Darrell Green
I
Quote from: Mr. Matt on October 25, 2018, 01:56:33 PM
I see a lot of Walsh-Parcells, which seems to be the consensus regarding that era. My question is about Gibbs. What sets him on a second tier in most people's minds?
Gibbs...
...won three Super Bowls (equal to Walsh, one more than Parcells), and went to four.
...never coached a great QB. In fact, he won with three different guys, two I don't think you could even call good, period.
...never had an all-time great defense, or a hall of fame defensive player, right?
...was arguably as innovative within Coryell's lineage as Walsh was in Brown's.
...had record-breaking offenses, but his famous receiving and OL units actually had several different players come through them
If you asked 100 football fans this question, top 5 coaches, I'd be willing to bet 98 of them would not have Gibbs on that list.
WHY, that is a great question that I cannot answer. I know I didn't have him on my list and looking at what you put up, I really don't know why.
Combining all the eras makes this a tough list to come up with.
Here goes..............
1. Paul Brown
2. Weeb Ewbank
3. Bill Belichick
4. Vince Lombardi
5a. Bill Parcells
5b. Bill Walsh
5c. Joe Gibbs
Okay I cheated a little.
Quote from: Giant Obsession on November 01, 2018, 01:17:20 PM
Combining all the eras makes this a tough list to come up with.
Here goes..............
1. Paul Brown
2. Weeb Ewbank
3. Bill Belichick
4. Vince Lombardi
5a. Bill Parcells
5b. Bill Walsh
5c. Joe Gibbs
Okay I cheated a little.
''
No Shula
Quote from: LennG on November 01, 2018, 05:18:57 PM
''
No Shula
Super Bowl III killed that :) They should have killed the Jets in my opinion. Many Colt players well after the fact stated they never really planned any adjustments for the Jets offense, just played their regular base defense that they played all year.
Not to mention the whitewashing the Browns laid on them in 1964 in the Championship game.
Quote from: Giant Obsession on November 01, 2018, 11:00:57 PM
Super Bowl III killed that :) They should have killed the Jets in my opinion. Many Colt players well after the fact stated they never really planned any adjustments for the Jets offense, just played their regular base defense that they played all year.
Not to mention the whitewashing the Browns laid on them in 1964 in the Championship game.
But then Shula rebounded and took a newly minted Miami team to a couple of SB's and an undefeated season. he knew all the right buttons to press and no matter how anyone wants to spin it, Griese was NOT HOF material. He was a good QB who basically managed games, handed off to maybe the greatest RB threesome of all time and threw it to 2 great WR's.
My only knock against Shula was that he should have started Unitas in SBIII. As for the no adjustments, the Jets weren't an offensive powerhouse and really, I don't know how good the Colts defense was all year, but the Jets game plan was marvelous. Hand the ball off to Snell and not have Joe win the game for them. That is why I had put Webb on my list of great coaches.
How about the Offensive/Defensive Coordinators from the 56 Giants? One Coordinator from the 86 Giants?
And Jason Garrett/Jerry Jones - :laugh:
I don't get it, Ed. :-??
This last Super Bowl cemented Belichick as tops. Lombardi inherited a nucleus which stayed intact in the days before free agency.He won with the same team. Paul Brown, Shula & Landry were consistent winners with totally different teams due to their longevity. Besides Brady, who's left from their first super bowl, the kicker? They lost their left tackle last year and still won. How long have we been blaming Manning' and the running game problems on the left tackle?
Belichick
Lombardi
Walsh
Shula
Parcells
I think Parcells is actually underrated. What he did with the Giants was clearly great, but he was also the only winning coach in Jet history (Al Groh coached one season and got to 9-7, up to you if you want to count that), and he did well in New England. The Dallas stint was not great, but he was kind of semi-retired then. All in all a brilliant career and one where he built bad teams up, as opposed to just being handed a winner from the get-go.
Quote from: LennG on October 19, 2018, 09:05:55 PM
I know Lombardi is a legend and such, but overall, look at the team he had to play with. He had basically all stars at every position. He may be a legend, but I do not think he was the best coach ever.
It is really hard to rate coaches I have never seen.
IN my lifetime in no prticulat order
Parcels--to me he could be #1. He won every whrre he went. Yes, he never won another SB, but he came in to 4 different teams and bsically took every one to a championship game, ort improved that tream so much that they were a complete opposite from when he took over
Belechick==his recorde speaks for itself but I would love to see how he would rate without Brady
Shula== a much underated coach who was basically brilliant
Walsh== Just so inventive
Noll/Lombardi/Weeb Ewbanks/Halas/Cowher to m, all great coches, just not in the top 5.
Really, my idea of an all time great coach is one who has done it more than once. Many coaches are great when they have great players, but what happens when those players leae ot the coach goes to a different team. Coachs like Parcels, Shula, Even Ewbanks did it with several teams and still had great results.
Lombardi became HC of a team that had NOT had a winning record in 12 years. The 2 years before Lombardi came in 1959 the Packers won 3 games in 1957 and one game in 1958.
Lombardi began his first season by cutting 16 veterans from the roster he inherited. His first team went 7 -5. His 2nd team played for the NFL Championship against the Eagles and his 3rd team won it all in 1961.
Make no mistake Lombardi coached and willed that team into the dynasty they became.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 14, 2020, 06:08:02 AM
Belichick
Lombardi
Walsh
Shula
Parcells
I think Parcells is actually underrated. What he did with the Giants was clearly great, but he was also the only winning coach in Jet history (Al Groh coached one season and got to 9-7, up to you if you want to count that), and he did well in New England. The Dallas stint was not great, but he was kind of semi-retired then. All in all a brilliant career and one where he built bad teams up, as opposed to just being handed a winner from the get-go.
I can only quote and agree. Good post en explanation Dave. ;)
Quote from: LennG on October 21, 2018, 09:22:17 PM
In BBs case, Brady = SB wins = best coach ever
I have to look at the record, And, it shows thje following:
Belicheck never won a SB without Brady,
Brady won a SB without Belichecki.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 14, 2020, 06:08:02 AM
Belichick
Lombardi
Walsh
Shula
Parcells
I think Parcells is actually underrated. What he did with the Giants was clearly great, but he was also the only winning coach in Jet history (Al Groh coached one season and got to 9-7, up to you if you want to count that), and he did well in New England. The Dallas stint was not great, but he was kind of semi-retired then. All in all a brilliant career and one where he built bad teams up, as opposed to just being handed a winner from the get-go.
Those would be my 5
Although I would consider swapping Tom Landry for Shula
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Swap out Parcells and insert Paul Brown.
Leroy Andrews
Steve Owen
Jim Lee Howell
Bill Parcells
Tom Coughlin
look no further those 5 all won championships for our NYG's ;)
however if I must
Halas
Brown
Ewbank (the only NFL champ/AFL champ/SB champ coach)
Lombardi
Parcells
I do not count someone whom is still coaching the NE Patsies as of 2021 yet when he retires, he replaces Weeb Ewbank