Just finished up HBO's "Undoing" series which is a legal thriller complete with some very sexy moments thrown in. I won't give away much because I don't want to spoil it. I liked it as much as the "Perry Mason" series earlier this year...which surprised me because it's nothing like the original Perry Mason and was extremely interesting. HBO is putting out some good stuff now and then.
The stars of the show are Nicole Kidman, Hugh Grant, and Donald Sutherland. But it's hard not to fall in love with 25 yr old Italian actress, Matilda De Angelis who does full frontal and full backside nudes and has a body worth pausing the TV for a closer look...although I didn't because I watch TV with my girlfriend, but if I was alone, I probably would have backed it up a few times.
Anyway, it's a 6 episode miniseries which kind of drags in the middle then has an explosive ending. I'd love to banter with someone who has a legal mind to see if they figured out what I figured out. After the show ended, I failed to see what really happened (other than the real killer exposed). So as I was in bed falling asleep it suddenly hit me how everything was turned around, who was responsible, and how the trial trick was pulled off. So I sat up in bed and bounced my theories off my girlfriend and we put it together. Took awhile to see what really happened and when I figured it out, it was sheer genius.
Introducing Miss De Angelis:
(https://i.postimg.cc/0jmxxBMW/undoing-kidman-de-angelis-split-1a.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
An article in today's paper where she discusses kissing Nicole Kidman and going around naked.
https://nypost.com/2020/12/03/undoing-star-matilda-de-angelis-on-kissing-nicole-kidman-i-loved-it/ (https://nypost.com/2020/12/03/undoing-star-matilda-de-angelis-on-kissing-nicole-kidman-i-loved-it/)
I thought it was a tremendous show. Extremely well shot, top notch cast and acting, well written for the most part, and gripping throughout. I too certainly won't give anything away as I don't want to ruin it for anyone intending to see it who hasn't yet, but it was very enjoyable and kept us guessing throughout.
I probably have one or two things I would gripe about if I were pressed to give a longer review, but overall I thought it was excellent.
We binge watched it last night based on your recommendation and loved it. I don
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 06, 2020, 01:43:37 PM
We binge watched it last night based on your recommendation and loved it. I don
That's exactly what happened as you described it. What kept it interesting up to that point and even beyond was there were multiple possibilities as to who did the actual killing. The visions Grace kept having put her in the mind of the viewer. The son and the father as well as the husband all were possibilities. Even as they drove in the car there was still the possibility that the son was the killer initially. The son put the hammer through the dishwasher twice. At one point it looked as if the son either wanted Elena out of the picture to keep the family intact or to set up his father and murder her out of anger. Remember the verdict was expected to come back as guilty as reasonable doubt was dispelled but there was no confession. The ending could have gone in an entirely different direction and it might have been a better surprise if the son was the killer or if Grace was psychotic or just visualized Jonathan as the killer but had a dual personality, which was the case with Jonathan who also was a sociopath.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 07, 2020, 05:24:07 PM
That's exactly what happened as you described it. What kept it interesting up to that point and even beyond was there were multiple possibilities as to who did the actual killing. The visions Grace kept having put her in the mind of the viewer. The son and the father as well as the husband all were possibilities. Even as they drove in the car there was still the possibility that the son was the killer initially. The son put the hammer through the dishwasher twice. At one point it looked as if the son either wanted Elena out of the picture to keep the family intact or to set up his father and murder her out of anger. Remember the verdict was expected to come back as guilty as reasonable doubt was dispelled but there was no confession. The ending could have gone in an entirely different direction and it might have been a better surprise if the son was the killer or if Grace was psychotic or just visualized Jonathan as the killer but had a dual personality, which was the case with Jonathan who also was a sociopath.
Good points. I told my girlfriend repeatedly for the few weeks we watched it that ultimately, the killer would end up being Grace's father (Don Sutherland) because he was such an XXXXXXX about who his daughter had married and I was sure he had set him up to get rid of him from her life. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), he was spot on about Jonathan, much to the chagrin of Grace.
For legal thrillers similar to "Undoing", I don't think it's possible for a movie to be better than "Primal Fear", award winning performances by Richard Gere and especially Edward Norton. If you've never seen it, it's a 5-star must see movie!
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 07, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Good points. I told my girlfriend repeatedly for the few weeks we watched it that ultimately, the killer would end up being Grace's father (Don Sutherland) because he was such an XXXXXXX about who his daughter had married and I was sure he had set him up to get rid of him from her life. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), he was spot on about Jonathan, much to the chagrin of Grace.
Sutherland was amazing in that role. I thought if it was him he would have paid someone to do it. Thanks for suggesting this. We enjoyed it very much. I don
Primal Fear is outstanding. Definitely one of the better thrillers of the past few decades. Great acting by Edward Norton in that movie, and Gere is also very good as the cocky lawyer.
As for the Undoing finale:
SPOILERS BELOW:
I liked the ending overall. My only gripe with it was the murder scene was not as convincing as it could have been. Grant goes from a passionate, intimate scene to being in a violent rage way too easily. Elena just brings up having tea with Grace and their respective kids, and Grant goes nuts right there and threatens her and quickly begins to slam her head. I get that he is a psychopath capable of murder, but if he were this easy to set off into a rage, surely this would have come up at some point during his 15 or so years of marriage to Grace? I feel like they could have developed this scene a little bit better.
I also found it a little bit hard to believe that Henry (Grace and Jonathan's son) was prepared to remain as blindly loyal to his father as he did throughout the show. We're supposed to believe that this kid is going to remain loyal to his Dad when he (1) cheated repeatedly on his mother and (2) killed someone? That strains credibility. It's not like the kid is six years old.
Overall a very strong show. Extremely well shot, superbly casted, and a very compelling, engaging plot. Nice job by all involved, and I hope it wins some awards.
It was definitely an interesting series. I had Grace pegged as the killer of both Elena and Jonathan. Then Jonathan showed up but I still had her on the hook for Elena's murder. She seemed just as enamored with Elena as Elena was with her. They had a couple of moments in the gym and the elevator that seemed to foreshadow some type of relationship between them.
Both of the doctors seemed to have well-balanced personas but it was clear one of them was going to snap. I just chose the wrong doctor.
One thing I didn't like was how Henry came upon the hammer. That was a little hokey for me.
Quote from: T200 on December 10, 2020, 11:37:20 PM
It was definitely an interesting series. I had Grace pegged as the killer of both Elena and Jonathan. Then Jonathan showed up but I still had her on the hook for Elena's murder. She seemed just as enamored with Elena as Elena was with her. They had a couple of moments in the gym and the elevator that seemed to foreshadow some type of relationship between them.
Both of the doctors seemed to have well-balanced personas but it was clear one of them was going to snap. I just chose the wrong doctor.
One thing I didn't like was how Henry came upon the hammer. That was a little hokey for me.
I agree...the hammer didn't make sense. At the point in which the hammer showed up, I immediately said out loud, "okay, so now we know he was set up". It had to be a set up because no way on earth a murderer would keep the weapon, let alone hide it at the place he was staying after the murder. The kid automatically decided that his father was guilty at that point, but it still didn't make sense. It only made sense if the "real killer" planted it in order to make the "good Doc" look guilty. Hell, if the good Doc had an IQ over 70, he would have known to throw the damn hammer off the first bridge he crossed. That part was a bit hokey for sure.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 12, 2020, 04:25:37 PM
I agree...the hammer didn't make sense. At the point in which the hammer showed up, I immediately said out loud, "okay, so now we know he was set up". It had to be a set up because no way on earth a murderer would keep the weapon, let alone hide it at the place he was staying after the murder. The kid automatically decided that his father was guilty at that point, but it still didn't make sense. It only made sense if the "real killer" planted it in order to make the "good Doc" look guilty. Hell, if the good Doc had an IQ over 70, he would have known to throw the damn hammer off the first bridge he crossed. That part was a bit hokey for sure.
Exactly! LOL
They did a good job of dropping a few crumbs here and there to place enough doubt in the viewers' minds to say maybe he didn't do it.
Too bad it was only 6 episodes. I think they could have developed it a little more.
Good find, Jolly :ok:
Quote from: T200 on December 13, 2020, 08:01:19 AM
Exactly! LOL
They did a good job of dropping a few crumbs here and there to place enough doubt in the viewers' minds to say maybe he didn't do it.
Too bad it was only 6 episodes. I think they could have developed it a little more.
Good find, Jolly :ok:
Agreed - six episodes was tight, and it felt like too much was jammed in at the end. They easily could have stretched episodes five and six into four episodes. They could have developed the courtroom scenes more, and as I stated in an earlier post, there needed to be more development in the murder scene or a clearer explanation of how Jonathan was so prone to violence in this scene even though that never visibly manifested itself in his life before that.
Still though, excellent show, definitely better than most.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 07, 2020, 07:33:45 PM
For legal thrillers similar to "Undoing", I don't think it's possible for a movie to be better than "Primal Fear", award winning performances by Richard Gere and especially Edward Norton. If you've never seen it, it's a 5-star must see movie!
I have never seen this but just recorded it and plan to watch it this week. Edward Norton is one of my favorite actors. I've heard good reviews of this but for whatever reason never had the chance to see it.
Quote from: ozzie on December 14, 2020, 09:50:37 AM
I have never seen this but just recorded it and plan to watch it this week. Edward Norton is one of my favorite actors. I've heard good reviews of this but for whatever reason never had the chance to see it.
In my opinion, this is the very best performance ever of Edward Norton. I can't wait to hear what you thought of the movie.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 14, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
In my opinion, this is the very best performance ever of Edward Norton. I can't wait to hear what you thought of the movie.
GREAT movie!
Yes, Edward Norton was superb in it. I couldn't believe that was his first film role. Great story, excellent acting, interesting and intriguing throughout!
Very worth checking out if you haven't already seen it! Highly recommended! ***** 5 stars
Quote from: ozzie on December 17, 2020, 05:48:24 PM
GREAT movie!
Yes, Edward Norton was superb in it. I couldn't believe that was his first film role. Great story, excellent acting, interesting and intriguing throughout!
Very worth checking out if you haven't already seen it! Highly recommended! ***** 5 stars
I've been saying for a long time that
Primal Fear is a great movie. The court scenes and especially the last scene still blows me away...LOL. And I haven't seen it in a long time but still gets a rise out of me emotionally thinking of that last scene.
On everyone's recommendation, I finally got to watch this series and agree 100% it was great. I refrained from reading this thread as I wanted to know nothing and go in with a clear mind. Just an excellent watch. Kidman is always good, I loved Hugh Grant as the 'bad guy'. I'm so used to seeing him play those innocent guys in silly comedies, and, of course, Donald Southerland was superb.
So my take, I watch so many of those old crime dramas, Agatha Christy stories etc. etc. that in my mind whomever the obvious killer is, it's usually not them, so I basically eliminated the husband right from the get-go. I also had Southerland as the killer. He had all the motivation, the money and he was perfect as the killer. Each show gave me more and more reason to suspect him. His wife recently passes, he loved the fact that his daughter and grandson were coming to live with him, he hated the husband and the list could go on. The hammer planted at his beach house. He WAS the killer. I really never thought that the son was the killer even when the hammer was found in his violin case. That was just too easy. I did, for a couple of moments think Kidman could really be the killer, as a sort of dual personality. She would have been a second choice.
Maybe I missed the 'plan' as I never really put it all together as you explained, but reading it, it sure as hell was the perfect plan. My question though, how or why did she 'suddenly' figure it out, as opposed to believing him. What made her suddenly know it was her husband and maybe not the victim's husband?
Also, I agree with the poster who said that it was simply unbelievable that the husband killed the woman so suddenly, in fits of rage over basically nothing, and NEVER showed any sort of anger, ever in their 15 years of marriage.
Anyway, a good watch, so thanks for the recommendation.
Quote from: LennG on January 29, 2021, 01:47:24 PM
On everyone's recommendation, I finally got to watch this series and agree 100% it was great. I refrained from reading this thread as I wanted to know nothing and go in with a clear mind. Just an excellent watch. Kidman is always good, I loved Hugh Grant as the 'bad guy'. I'm so used to seeing him play those innocent guys in silly comedies, and, of course, Donald Southerland was superb.
So my take, I watch so many of those old crime dramas, Agatha Christy stories etc. etc. that in my mind whomever the obvious killer is, it's usually not them, so I basically eliminated the husband right from the get-go. I also had Southerland as the killer. He had all the motivation, the money and he was perfect as the killer. Each show gave me more and more reason to suspect him. His wife recently passes, he loved the fact that his daughter and grandson were coming to live with him, he hated the husband and the list could go on. The hammer planted at his beach house. He WAS the killer. I really never thought that the son was the killer even when the hammer was found in his violin case. That was just too easy. I did, for a couple of moments think Kidman could really be the killer, as a sort of dual personality. She would have been a second choice.
Maybe I missed the 'plan' as I never really put it all together as you explained, but reading it, it sure as hell was the perfect plan. My question though, how or why did she 'suddenly' figure it out, as opposed to believing him. What made her suddenly know it was her husband and maybe not the victim's husband?
Also, I agree with the poster who said that it was simply unbelievable that the husband killed the woman so suddenly, in fits of rage over basically nothing, and NEVER showed any sort of anger, ever in their 15 years of marriage.
Anyway, a good watch, so thanks for the recommendation.
Great minds must think alike, LOL. Your suspicions were exactly as mine. I told my girlfriend over and over it was Sutherland and each week, something added to that suspicion. I figured he planted the hammer and did everything possible to point the finger at Grant...who, like you said, hated him. He actually passionately despised him and seemed he wanted his daughter all to himself.
As far as when the wife figured it out, I think (being a professional therapist/psychologist) she had an understanding of human behavior so well, she knew as soon as Grant's mother called her on the phone and explained about his sister that everything she thought about Grant was wrong and that he had a great ability to hide his true self. Grant's lack of interest or his ability to hide any emotion regarding his sister doesn't add up to a "caring, empathetic, and loving" person. In fact, it's the trademark of a psychopath.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 29, 2021, 03:09:48 PM
Great minds must think alike, LOL. Your suspicions were exactly as mine. I told my girlfriend over and over it was Sutherland and each week, something added to that suspicion. I figured he planted the hammer and did everything possible to point the finger at Grant...who, like you said, hated him. He actually passionately despised him and seemed he wanted his daughter all to himself.
As far as when the wife figured it out, I think (being a professional therapist/psychologist) she had an understanding of human behavior so well, she knew as soon as Grant's mother called her on the phone and explained about his sister that everything she thought about Grant was wrong and that he had a great ability to hide his true self. Grant's lack of interest or his ability to hide any emotion regarding his sister doesn't add up to a "caring, empathetic, and loving" person. In fact, it's the trademark of a psychopath.
Agreed, but try an I might, even though she was a psychiatrist and understand human behavior, and then realizing that the man she married showed no remorse, but he had to show love and tenderness etc. He wasn't a so-called mindless, remorseless zombie. AND that doesn't make him a killer. Sure she was pissed at him but she still stuck by him until that point.
Her lawyer wanted suspicion pointed at the dead girl's husband. he really had the most interest in seeing her dead. I still can't get how that proverbial 'lightbulb' went off in Kidman's mind, and the plot was hatched. Throughout the show, you couldn't be definitely sure it wasn't the other husband. Granted that Hugh Grant's story was so ridiculous, he was there, they made love, he left, then came back--silly, but people did believe it.
And we are so attuned to never suspect the obvious, that we look for, who is the most unlikely guy to be the murderer--Sutherland, that we immediately go right there. Good stuff anyway.
PS, ever get to watch the last season of Fargo?
Quote from: LennG on January 29, 2021, 05:22:41 PM
Agreed, but try an I might, even though she was a psychiatrist and understand human behavior, and then realizing that the man she married showed no remorse, but he had to show love and tenderness etc. He wasn't a so-called mindless, remorseless zombie. AND that doesn't make him a killer. Sure she was pissed at him but she still stuck by him until that point.
Her lawyer wanted suspicion pointed at the dead girl's husband. he really had the most interest in seeing her dead. I still can't get how that proverbial 'lightbulb' went off in Kidman's mind, and the plot was hatched. Throughout the show, you couldn't be definitely sure it wasn't the other husband. Granted that Hugh Grant's story was so ridiculous, he was there, they made love, he left, then came back--silly, but people did believe it.
And we are so attuned to never suspect the obvious, that we look for, who is the most unlikely guy to be the murderer--Sutherland, that we immediately go right there. Good stuff anyway.
PS, ever get to watch the last season of Fargo?
I watched the first 5 episodes and was into it, but my girlfriend absolutely hated it (no big deal, she hates most of the shows I like) and then Hulu was canceled by mistake after I was forced to cancel my credit card after someone (a slimeball) in California got my numbers and tried to use it. Took forever to get Hulu back up, but I still haven't had the TV to myself anyway and have had too much stuff going on (surgery on my head, a friend's death, another friend's father passing, dealing with a lawyer on a tough case, trying to get my elderly parents vaccinated....and just a whole lot of stuff). Anyway, I will get back to it at some point. Wish my girlfriend had a job (that she has to go to) right now, LOL
Quote from: LennG on January 29, 2021, 05:22:41 PM
Agreed, but try an I might, even though she was a psychiatrist and understand human behavior, and then realizing that the man she married showed no remorse, but he had to show love and tenderness etc. He wasn't a so-called mindless, remorseless zombie. AND that doesn't make him a killer. Sure she was pissed at him but she still stuck by him until that point.
Her lawyer wanted suspicion pointed at the dead girl's husband. he really had the most interest in seeing her dead. I still can't get how that proverbial 'lightbulb' went off in Kidman's mind, and the plot was hatched. Throughout the show, you couldn't be definitely sure it wasn't the other husband. Granted that Hugh Grant's story was so ridiculous, he was there, they made love, he left, then came back--silly, but people did believe it.
And we are so attuned to never suspect the obvious, that we look for, who is the most unlikely guy to be the murderer--Sutherland, that we immediately go right there. Good stuff anyway.
PS, ever get to watch the last season of Fargo?
Finally got around to it and loved it. It started slow, but built in intensity until it was a "must watch" whenever I had the chance to sit down and watch tv. Disappointed with the ending, but then I remembered how pretty much every Fargo series ends.... :laugh:
I thought Chris Rock did a superb job and I was highly skeptical that he could pull off a serious bad guy role. He certainly pulled it off. I liked Timothy Olyphant's role and was surprised how his role ended...again, this is Fargo LOL
Agree about Chris Rock, only he was 'on paper' a bad guy, but he really wasn't a 'real' bad guy in the sense we know them.
Also, I was so enthused when I saw Timothy Olyphant's name in the credits and I was pretty disappointed in his role here, especially his end.
Have you ever watched Justified? Just a terrific series with him as the star. I think it ran for 4-5 years. Also just loved him in Deadwood. A show that never should have been canceled.
Yeah, I watched "Justified" and always liked Olyphant. Like you, I was taken aback a bit at his demise. There was a lot of dark humor in this series - a whacko nurse, the girl literally crapping her pants over and over while in the midst of a robbery, the idiot brother with the bug eyes tripping and "bang", etc. The nurse saying, "can you kill him first so I can watch him die" was just a sample of her whacked out brain. All in all, a good watch.