I mean the guy is constantly hurt and he's getting old (by RB standards). Do you believe the Giants should spend a fully guaranteed $12mm on him next year? If the answer is no, can it be assumed that you are in favor of trading him ASAP, since the season (in practical terms at least) is pretty much over?
Does anyone still want to see him get a contract or wish the Giants had acquiesced to his demands in the last season and had given him a multi-year contract?
No
I predict this is his last year with us.
They should absolutely try and trade him this season. If they can't get a trade done for whatever reason I might tag him with the intent to seek a trade in the offseason so he can't just leave for nothing. My guess is that was why both sides agreed to not include a "no franchise tag" clause in his deal over the summer. Letting him walk for nothing would be a worst case scenario type of situation.
Absolutely not. I am of the belief they should have traded him at lasts year's deadline.
They will get less now, but admit your mistake, and salvage it the best you can by trading him this year.
I would not tag or give a new contract, if no one would trade anything he can walk next offseason.
Barkley must be traded
Quote from: True Blue on October 12, 2023, 02:23:53 PMAbsolutely not. I am of the belief they should have traded him at lasts year's deadline.
They will get less now, but admit your mistake, and salvage it the best you can by trading him this year.
I would not tag or give a new contract, if no one would trade anything he can walk next offseason.
Completely agree
I agree with all of you. Unless there are literally zero takers, I will consider it a failure by our front office if they don't trade him before the deadline. Even if it's just a fifth rounder, let's get something instead of nothing. Signing or even tagging him after this season would be preposterous.
Def not worth the tag. However, it will be interesting to see how much the offense and Daniel Jones improve (or IF they improve) once a healthy Barkley gets inserted back into the offense. If he comes back and makes the offense gel more like the 2nd half against Arizona, I'd say a reasonable deal might make sense.
But the tag will be, what, 13-14 million? Definitely not at that price.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on October 12, 2023, 03:33:36 PMDef not worth the tag. However, it will be interesting to see how much the offense and Daniel Jones improve (or IF they improve) once a healthy Barkley gets inserted back into the offense. If he comes back and makes the offense gel more like the 2nd half against Arizona, I'd say a reasonable deal might make sense.
But the tag will be, what, 13-14 million? Definitely not at that price.
If memory serves it will be about $12mm but I am not 100% positive.
And if a trade, what is his value at this point? a 3rd?
I think it depends on if the plan to sign a bunch of players in Free Agency. If they do they need to trade him, if they don't they can just get a comp pick for him.
IF we trade him...it should be during the offseason IMO.
Still too early to judge the 2023 season...the offense, etc.
I would get Barkley healthy #:-S
Showcase him in a couple games (and pray he isn't injured) then quickly trade him to the highest bidder.
As oppose what? Let him leave and get nothing back? That would be a waste of an asset.
Quote from: LennG on October 12, 2023, 03:56:34 PMAnd if a trade, what is his value at this point? a 3rd?
No chance they get a third for him.
Paradoxically I think the odds will actually start increasing that Barkley returns next year. We're going to need a cheap veteran RB, and with the way Barkley's season is going, whether he likes it or not, he'll be a cheap veteran RB.
Quote from: AYM on October 12, 2023, 08:45:58 PMParadoxically I think the odds will actually start increasing that Barkley returns next year. We're going to need a cheap veteran RB, and with the way Barkley's season is going, whether he likes it or not, he'll be a cheap veteran RB.
Define "cheap" though. Is $8-$9mm cheap for a RB?
Do you think he'll be less than that?
Next season we'll need a RB that can stay on the field. That's not in Barkley's skill set.
Remember, current Management didn't Draft Barkley. Their seats are already getting toasty ;)
Quote from: Jaime on October 13, 2023, 12:05:41 AMNext season we'll need a RB that can stay on the field. That's not in Barkley's skill set.
Remember, current Management didn't Draft Barkley. Their seats are already getting toasty ;)
Bottom line you can get quality RBs in every draft on day two and day three. And they'll be making about $1m-$1.5mm a year give or take. Just a fact of life. The Giants should simply replenish at this position and stop with all this drama with this player.
If things continue down the current path I expect he will be playing elsewhere by November.
Barkley is the Giants best offensive weapon, maybe their best player period, and I still hope they trade him. The Giants need to fundamentally change their core players to alter the franchise's trajectory, which includes one of NFLs worst records since Barkley's arrival. When I view our roster, there's only a handful of players I'd retain to initiate my rebuild:
Banks
Hawkins
Thomas
JMS
Dex
Thibs
Hyatt
Robinson (if he can stay healthy)
The insanity of trotting out the same offensive leaders and hoping for a different result needs to end. For the past 5 years, this offense has struggled to score points, in an era explicitly designed to facilitate more offense/points; worse, they've been/are, excruciatingly boring to watch...enough already. It's time for a fundamental shift.
I think there are more guys I would retain like DJ Davidson and Cordale Flott to name a couple.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 13, 2023, 07:27:05 AMI think there are more guys I would retain like DJ Davidson and Cordale Flott to name a couple.
When you're the worst team in the league (which we more or less are), it's hard to have many hard and fast rules where you won't even consider a discussion or be open to any idea without at least hearing it. The Giants have been one of the most stubborn franchises in the sport for too long now, and that's probably the single biggest reason why we are where we are right now.
In any event, neither of those players are of any great consequence either way. It's not like we'd get much (or anything at all) for either.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 13, 2023, 07:30:35 AMWhen you're the worst team in the league (which we more or less are), it's hard to have many hard and fast rules where you won't even consider a discussion or be open to any idea without at least hearing it. The Giants have been one of the most stubborn franchises in the sport for too long now, and that's probably the single biggest reason why we are where we are right now.
In any event, neither of those players are of any great consequence either way. It's not like we'd get much (or anything at all) for either.
Correct and they are on cheap rookie contracts and are decent players. No reason to get rid of decent players in their 2nd year of a 4 year contract.
You need a 53 man roster next year. Unless you want to go the way of what Houston did last year and sign 30 or so guys to one year deals, you will need to retain more than 8 guys.
I'll answer this question if they start winning or not when he comes back.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 13, 2023, 08:07:37 AMCorrect and they are on cheap rookie contracts and are decent players. No reason to get rid of decent players in their 2nd year of a 4 year contract.
You need a 53 man roster next year. Unless you want to go the way of what Houston did last year and sign 30 or so guys to one year deals, you will need to retain more than 8 guys.
Miami did it well. If you recall they dumped contracts and traded vets en masse a few years back, and now they're as good as they have been in decades.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 13, 2023, 08:20:55 AMMiami did it well. If you recall they dumped contracts and traded vets en masse a few years back, and now they're as good as they have been in decades.
They actual traded some foundational players as well like Tunsil and Fitzpatrick. Are you suggesting the Giants should trade Andrew Thomas?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 13, 2023, 08:41:44 AMThey actual traded some foundational players as well like Tunsil and Fitzpatrick. Are you suggesting the Giants should trade Andrew Thomas?
No, I'm not. I consider Thomas better than Tunsil, and good offensive tackles are very hard to find. I don't want to move Thomas. And I'm not suggesting we do precisely what Miami did, move by move. However they're an example of a team that did a full tear-down and has come out as a Super Bowl contender on the other side, so it's hard to criticize them.
Who are the best current trade partners for Barkley? Which teams are close to a championship and need a feature back or at least a complimentary back?
Quote from: WheresDayne on October 13, 2023, 08:54:05 AMWho are the best current trade partners for Barkley? Which teams are close to a championship and need a feature back or at least a complimentary back?
I was thinking Cleveland after the Chubb injury. They signed Hunt, but not sure how they feel about him.
Quote from: WheresDayne on October 13, 2023, 08:54:05 AMWho are the best current trade partners for Barkley? Which teams are close to a championship and need a feature back or at least a complimentary back?
Dolphins potentially, given Achane suffered a serious injury.
Chiefs could easily justify it as they lack playmakers in general right now.
All of the AFC North teams (in particular the Browns and Ravens) make sense, particularly if they win their next couple of games and are clearly in the hunt.
I think there would be substantial interest, especially if the price were just simply a 5th rounder (or even a 4th). You get a high level playmaker and have no obligation beyond this year. For someone who is thinking Super Bowl this season, that's pretty enticing.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 13, 2023, 09:50:25 AMDolphins potentially, given Achane suffered a serious injury.
Chiefs could easily justify it as they lack playmakers in general right now.
All of the AFC North teams (in particular the Browns and Ravens) make sense, particularly if they win their next couple of games and are clearly in the hunt.
I think there would be substantial interest, especially if the price were just simply a 5th rounder (or even a 4th). You get a high level playmaker and have no obligation beyond this year. For someone who is thinking Super Bowl this season, that's pretty enticing.
I have to get more up to date. Thought Achane was going to be out 2 weeks.
Was thinking about the Chiefs for what you referenced but their deficiency is really in the WR area.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 13, 2023, 09:50:25 AMDolphins potentially, given Achane suffered a serious injury.
Chiefs could easily justify it as they lack playmakers in general right now.
All of the AFC North teams (in particular the Browns and Ravens) make sense, particularly if they win their next couple of games and are clearly in the hunt.
I think there would be substantial interest, especially if the price were just simply a 5th rounder (or even a 4th). You get a high level playmaker and have no obligation beyond this year. For someone who is thinking Super Bowl this season, that's pretty enticing.
Dolphins have like 3 RBs that are all fairly good. Though Achane seems to be the best of the bunch. And they just traded for Claypool for some reason so I kinda feel like they're out. And Pacheco on the chiefs is great so they would probably look elsewhere, perhaps WR, rather than RB. The Ravens are interesting though. Barkley and Lamar Jackson in the same backfield is pretty terrifying for defenses.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 13, 2023, 10:30:31 AMI have to get more up to date. Thought Achane was going to be out 2 weeks.
Was thinking about the Chiefs for what you referenced but their deficiency is really in the WR area.
Yeah Achane is on the IR. So minimum of four games. Also Mostert always gets hurt at some point so I could see them being interested in Barkley.
That's true about the Chiefs, although they're not exactly loaded at RB. Pacheco is very good but CEH stinks, and McKinnon is a JAG. Barkley would add a new dimension. I agree they're not the most obvious location though.
A lot of these great teams don't invest in Rbs and so I doubt they would. They just draft 5th and 7th rounders that hit.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 13, 2023, 11:49:00 AMA lot of these great teams don't invest in Rbs and so I doubt they would. They just draft 5th and 7th rounders that hit.
Agreed although you could say that about the 49ers pre McCaffrey and look what he is doing for them. And that involved taking on a huge contract, which nobody would have to do with Barkley. He's a pure rental and a pretty good one when he's healthy. If I were someone like the browns and I'm 4-2 I would do it for a 5th. And you know me - I am no believer in paying RBs. This would be a purely tactical short term play.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 13, 2023, 10:46:12 AMYeah Achane is on the IR. So minimum of four games. Also Mostert always gets hurt at some point so I could see them being interested in Barkley.
That's true about the Chiefs, although they're not exactly loaded at RB. Pacheco is very good but CEH stinks, and McKinnon is a JAG. Barkley would add a new dimension. I agree they're not the most obvious location though.
Pacheco is becoming their lead back so I doubt it will be the Chiefs.
The Dolphins can just replace Achane with Jeff Wilson who is eligible to return from IR so they are likely out.
Quote from: TDToomer on October 13, 2023, 12:03:12 PMPacheco is becoming their lead back so I doubt it will be the Chiefs.
The Dolphins can just replace Achane with Jeff Wilson who is eligible to return from IR so they are likely out.
Wilson isn't a big time talent though. He's not really "replacing" Achane, other than just be being a JAG occupying a roster spot.
Quote from: babywhales on October 12, 2023, 02:36:45 PMBarkley must be traded
Very likely at this point all things considered
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Quote from: Jaime on October 12, 2023, 06:01:01 PMI would get Barkley healthy #:-S
Showcase him in a couple games (and pray he isn't injured) then quickly trade him to the highest bidder.
Time is running out. Trade deadline for this year OCT 31. I think
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Quote from: kingm56 on October 13, 2023, 07:17:28 AMBarkley is the Giants best offensive weapon, maybe their best player period, and I still hope they trade him. The Giants need to fundamentally change their core players to alter the franchise's trajectory, which includes one of NFLs worst records since Barkley's arrival. When I view our roster, there's only a handful of players I'd retain to initiate my rebuild:
Banks
Hawkins
Thomas
JMS
Dex
Thibs
Hyatt
Robinson (if he can stay healthy)
The insanity of trotting out the same offensive leaders and hoping for a different result needs to end. For the past 5 years, this offense has struggled to score points, in an era explicitly designed to facilitate more offense/points; worse, they've been/are, excruciatingly boring to watch...enough already. It's time for a fundamental shift.
I like your list though I am having less faith in Dex now.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 12, 2023, 02:08:59 PMI mean the guy is constantly hurt and he's getting old (by RB standards). Do you believe the Giants should spend a fully guaranteed $12mm on him next year? If the answer is no, can it be assumed that you are in favor of trading him ASAP, since the season (in practical terms at least) is pretty much over?
Does anyone still want to see him get a contract or wish the Giants had acquiesced to his demands in the last season and had given him a multi-year contract?
I would trade any player for the right price. But I wouldn't trade Barkley for anything less than a mid 2nd round pick, preferably 1st round pick. And I don't think anyone is going to offer that. So I would definitely tag him or sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal. He's the best player on the team when healthy.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 12, 2023, 08:54:36 PMDefine "cheap" though. Is $8-$9mm cheap for a RB?
Do you think he'll be less than that?
I don't have a number, but likely significantly less than that. Nobody's going to pay much for him at the rate he's going, so maybe the Giants give him a bonus to stick around.
Miles Sanders got about $6.4 million/year from Carolina. I think Barkley's value - at the rate he's going - would be less than that. It may take him awhile to accept it, but that's the reality.
Quote from: Philosophers on October 13, 2023, 12:35:59 PMI like your list though I am having less faith in Dex now.
No arguments here; unfortunately, he doesn't show up against the leagues best offensive lines. Still a good player though.
Quote from: AYM on October 13, 2023, 03:45:58 PMI don't have a number, but likely significantly less than that. Nobody's going to pay much for him at the rate he's going, so maybe the Giants give him a bonus to stick around.
Miles Sanders got about $6.4 million/year from Carolina. I think Barkley's value - at the rate he's going - would be less than that. It may take him awhile to accept it, but that's the reality.
I'll be really surprised if the market for Barkley drops below that or even is equal to that. Sanders has an injury history too, and he's not in Barkley's league talent-wise.
The issue is Barkley just doesn't fit into the Giants' stage in the cycle right now. Maybe before 2023 they thought they were closer to contention than they are, but it's clear that they're nowhere near contention. The team stinks in almost every are of the roster. Barkley is aging and is an expensive vet at a cheap position. They're better off moving him, and no, we're not getting a 1st or 2nd rounder for him. No chance.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 13, 2023, 04:01:52 PMI'll be really surprised if the market for Barkley drops below that or even is equal to that. Sanders has an injury history too, and he's not in Barkley's league talent-wise.
The issue is Barkley just doesn't fit into the Giants' stage in the cycle right now. Maybe before 2023 they thought they were closer to contention than they are, but it's clear that they're nowhere near contention. The team stinks in almost every are of the roster. Barkley is aging and is an expensive vet at a cheap position. They're better off moving him, and no, we're not getting a 1st or 2nd rounder for him. No chance.
Maybe a 3rd and a conditional late round pick if we take on his cap.