And that means the entire Coaching Staff goes. Wink included. This is bad, this is very, very bad.
Good, he's garbage.
I don't get it. Did people think this game was going to be competitive? Look who we have at QB.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 12, 2023, 06:03:47 PMI don't get it. Did people think this game was going to be competitive? Look who we have at QB.
Yup, blame the QB. That will fix everything.
I have to wonder (and have been since it happened) why another QB wasn't signed to the practice squad when Jones injured his neck.
DeVito starting this game says something about the direction someone wants this team to head.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 12, 2023, 06:04:41 PMYup, blame the QB. That will fix everything.
I'm not blaming the QB. He's doing the best he can, and it's unfortunate that the team is in a position where someone with his experience and ability has to actually play. You don't go into a season expecting your first and second stringer to both go down. When that does happen, it's pretty hard to win. Panicking and firing an entire coaching staff in the middle of a season would be a knee-jerk move that would solve nothing.
Other than a mirage 6-1 start, what has Daboll done to earn a 3rd year? His offense stinks, the defense stinks, the offensive line is miserable, and he's looking pretty much the same as Judge, just without the press conference meltdowns.
The argument I've heard boils down to "we can't continue firing guys after their 2nd year".
But if we're bad enough to go QB in the first round, we're back on the carousel with a rookie QB and a coach on the hot seat. If we're going to start over at QB, let's start over at least with HC as well so their clocks are aligned and the franchise gets some direction.
Then if that coach and QB fail, we dump them and Schoen. I think that's the most reasonable scenario right now.
EDIT: I wouldn't fire anyone but the OL coach midseason though.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 12, 2023, 06:06:31 PMI have to wonder (and have been since it happened) why another QB wasn't signed to the practice squad when Jones injured his neck.
DeVito starting this game says something about the direction someone wants this team to head.
The Bears have won a game with a rookie Division II QB.
Quote from: AYM on November 12, 2023, 06:07:18 PMOther than a mirage 6-1 start, what has Daboll done to earn a 3rd year? His offense stinks, the defense stinks, the offensive line is miserable, and he's looking pretty much the same as Judge, just without the press conference meltdowns.
The argument I've heard boils down to "we can't continue firing guys after their 2nd year".
But if we're bad enough to go QB in the first round, we're back on the carousel with a rookie QB and a coach on the hot seat. If we're going to start over at QB, let's start over at least with HC as well so their clocks are aligned and the franchise gets some direction.
Then if that coach and QB fail, we dump them and Schoen. I think that's the most reasonable scenario right now.
By the standards of what this franchise has been for the last decade, 2022 was a very good year. We had the 2016 year, but we got smoked in the wildcard round that year. Last year I appreciate that the second half of the regular season was not as good as the first half, but we still posted a winning record and won a road playoff game against a division winner.
I'm not defending the job Daboll has done this year, but I am not supportive of firing a coach for one bad season. Actually it would be a little more than half a season. It's panicky, and it frankly will make high quality coaching candidates less likely to want to work here.
I'd like to see Daboll get a chance with a real QB. He has not had that yet here.
Daboll stays at least one more year, unless he lost the locker room
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 12, 2023, 06:07:10 PMI'm not blaming the QB. He's doing the best he can, and it's unfortunate that the team is in a position where someone with his experience and ability has to actually play. You don't go into a season expecting your first and second stringer to both go down. When that does happen, it's pretty hard to win. Panicking and firing an entire coaching staff in the middle of a season would be a knee-jerk move that would solve nothing.
You think they would fire the coaching staff in the middle of the season? Seriously?
I don't know that firing Daboll fixes anything.
We've got a depth-less roster, last season was a house of cards.
We stayed healthy and won close games, in many ways, it was the worst thing that could've happened.
This season, we've come into the season seriously under cooked and beyond that, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong.
We need a roster with some depth, it takes time to build that.
Daboll hasn't done a good job this season imo but between the way the schedule came out with all these prime time games and then all the injuries the results were basically expected. We won a game we shouldn't have in Arizona and threw away another game we had no business losing to the jets. What other games did anyone think we were winning the way this roster is now. I'm more upset that schoen after moving Williams didn't move Barkley and a few others for more draft capital to continue rebuilding this team. The only thing I can't figure is if schoen wanted to but was stopped by the meddling John Mara again.
He has to fire a coach or two because he needs to turn this around somewhat.
The play calling and offensive execution is abysmal.
The ONLY way Daboll is free after this season is if he clearly loses the locker room.
You don't let a guy who has coached Hurts and Tua at Alabama and Allen in the NFL go. Let him and Schoen pick their guy at QB. Give them a couple of seasons with THEIR guys, then drop the hammer if they don't show improvement.
Gettleman created this 💩 in more than two years. Not fair to expect a new regime to come and right the ship in 2 years with very little talent to work with.
Daboll was considered a top tier offensive mind in Buffalo. That's not even up for debate. He was number one or two on the lists of every team that was hiring in 2022.
Either he suddenly forgot everything he knows about how to design and manage an offense, or the fact that he is dealing with Jones/Taylor/DeVito instead of Josh Allen has something to do with this offense's struggles. I appreciate Kafka plays into it as well and he may get replaced, but I doubt Mara will fire the reigning NFL coach of the year (and the whole staff) over one bad season where both of their QBs went down.
Quote from: AYM on November 12, 2023, 06:07:18 PMOther than a mirage 6-1 start, what has Daboll done to earn a 3rd year? His offense stinks, the defense stinks, the offensive line is miserable, and he's looking pretty much the same as Judge, just without the press conference meltdowns.
The argument I've heard boils down to "we can't continue firing guys after their 2nd year".
But if we're bad enough to go QB in the first round, we're back on the carousel with a rookie QB and a coach on the hot seat. If we're going to start over at QB, let's start over at least with HC as well so their clocks are aligned and the franchise gets some direction.
Then if that coach and QB fail, we dump them and Schoen. I think that's the most reasonable scenario right now.
EDIT: I wouldn't fire anyone but the OL coach midseason though.
What were your expectations for the past two years? The roster isn't good and needed a reset in the most desperate way. I have absolutely no need to care about how somebody coaches a really bad roster. The ability to turn a 2-3 win team into a 6 win team is a useless skill. Winning 9 games last year was a downright bad thing and you will never convince me otherwise.
Stop looking for coaches to be magicians. At some point, you have to have the players to make it work and the Giants don't have anything remotely close to that. What we're seeing is frustrating in the short-term, but ultiamtely doesn't matter. The only question is what will Daboll do when he actually has the talent to win. Unfortunately, this league lacks patience and a lot of coaches get fired before we ever see that.
A new QB will not solve the myriad of problems this team has. What in God's name was Daboll thinking challenging the first play of the game on a very obvious catch and no fumble and he lost a timeout at the very beginning of the game.
After todays game? Clean house and talk to Harbaugh about coming in and can coach as well as GM! Enough of amateur hour, were the Fn NY Giants!
Talk about patience with Daboll..his own sideline is losing it having fits..coaches..players. etc.
I still think he will survive with the caveat that progress (roster upgrades..future young talent development/qb/ol..influx of new staff)) show next year.
Or he gone with Schoen.
If the Giants are going to fire anybody it should be the entire medical staff.
Someone has to figure out why we lose more players to injury than any other team EVERY YEAR!!
It's just ridiculous!
Quote from: ozzie on November 12, 2023, 08:14:05 PMIf the Giants are going to fire anybody it should be the entire medical staff.
Someone has to figure out why we lose more players to injury than any other team EVERY YEAR!!
It's just ridiculous!
My brother asked me this earlier. It's ridiculous.
Quote from: Messiah717 on November 12, 2023, 08:15:39 PMMy brother asked me this earlier. It's ridiculous.
Yes absolutely!!! It's chronic..but Barnes has been untouchable with Mara. I'd be screaming about their medical staff. ~X(
We should all probably come to terms right now with the fact that every game Devito starts, which could very well be all of them, is going to look like some variation of this. There's nothing we or Daboll or Kafka or Harbaugh or Bill Walsh can do about it. Yes challenging that first play was idiotic. But did it change absolutely anything? No. They were going to lose this game by 30 from the opening coin toss.
It's started Already.
https://www.nj.com/giants/2023/11/giants-imploding-cowboys-crush-them-as-players-and-brian-daboll-argue-on-sideline.html
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 12, 2023, 08:23:03 PMWe should all probably come to terms right now with the fact that every game Devito starts, which could very well be all of them, is going to look like some variation of this. There's nothing we or Daboll or Kafka or Harbaugh or Bill Walsh can do about it. Yes challenging that first play was idiotic. But did it change absolutely anything? No. They were going to lose this game by 30 from the opening coin toss.
Tommy Devito is probably the worst QB that will take a snap this season and he's going to end up being our QB for the second half of the year. If your expectation is for this offense to look anything north of terrible most of the time, you need to be more realistic.
Why is Devito even on the roster? Thats the bigger problem!
Quote from: allieshermanghost on November 12, 2023, 08:38:35 PMWhy is Devito even on the roster? Thats the bigger problem!
There may be a tanking aspect to it. We could have had Wentz and opted not to, and the Rams then signed him.
I'm not suggesting we would have won either of our last two games with Wentz instead of DeVito, but there is no way these coaches can possibly think DeVito is the absolute best option they had including everyone out there on the street.
I guess the only rationale is the coaches are more comfortable with a lesser QB who knows the playbook than a slightly better one who doesn't.
I think losing is the point. Schoen has personally scouted the QBs in contention for selection
Dabs was dealt a bad hand this season with injuries and a tough schedule but the glaring problem with his coaching is the behavior of his players and assistant coaches. Players are arguing with each other and some players are calling out coaches in the press. Today Dabs and Wink seemed to be questioning each other. He's seemed to have lost the team which usually leads to a firing. Where is the old Dabs fire on the sideline? He now seems to sulk on the sidelines, he looks whipped in the 1st quarter. He seems to have lost his confidence.
Schoen has been a better gm in 2 offseasons than we've seen in 2 decades.
I don't get it? The season is lost and you wanted them to go hell for leather or run exotic Plays? Schoen and daboll are serving up vanilla the rest of the season not just because of injuries but draft capital.
It's not Daboll, the guy is a good coach, maybe Kafka is gone as he hasn't done much period but no team is going to be good without a good qb. Name 1 team lighting it up without a good qb?
Just really hope we get past the overreactions because this is how it's going to be the rest of the season.
Quote from: umassgrad on November 12, 2023, 08:53:09 PMDabs was dealt a bad hand this season with injuries and a tough schedule but the glaring problem with his coaching is the behavior of his players and assistant coaches. Players are arguing with each other and some players are calling out coaches in the press. Today Dabs and Wink seemed to be questioning each other. He's seemed to have lost the team which usually leads to a firing. Where is the old Dabs fire on the sideline? He now seems to sulk on the sidelines, he looks whipped in the 1st quarter. He seems to have lost his confidence.
Are we seriously blaming the schedule makers? We lost to the crappy Raiders and Jets.
https://x.com/ralphvacchiano/status/1723849405713776907?
https://x.com/lt4kicks/status/1723871673588285819?
https://x.com/danschneiernfl/status/1723857312526250059?
Quote from: TDToomer on November 12, 2023, 09:01:04 PMAre we seriously blaming the schedule makers? We lost to the crappy Raiders and Jets.
The crappy Jets that beat the Bills and the Eagles? Wait until we play the Eagles.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 12, 2023, 09:11:29 PMhttps://x.com/lt4kicks/status/1723871673588285819?
And? Is Tynes going to give us as in depth analysis and hot take of his former team or just try to get liked on Twitter? What a useless comment by Tynes which is pretty much his entire feed.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 12, 2023, 09:12:50 PMhttps://x.com/danschneiernfl/status/1723857312526250059?
This begs watching the rest of the season.
Quote from: kartanoman on November 12, 2023, 09:46:00 PMThis begs watching the rest of the season.
Can someone please elaborate on what this was all about? I don't subscribe to X.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 12, 2023, 09:44:19 PMAnd? Is Tynes going to give us as in depth analysis and hot take of his former team or just try to get liked on Twitter? What a useless comment by Tynes which is pretty much his entire feed.
He really flipped today.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 12, 2023, 10:08:42 PMHe really flipped today.
Is he a springboard diver now? What did he say???? Not all of us use X/Twitter. So blanket reposts mean nothing without context.
Like I said in the OP, Daboll is going to have to cut at least one of his coaches. The status quo isn't going to fly. As each embarrassing loss mounts the press will continue to rile up the masses. Then when they play at home and the stadium is filled with other colors and the boo birds start in, eventually the chants to fire will begin. I've been witness to this scene all too many times.
I'm sure the owners realize the injuries, the incomplete rebuild and the QB situation are a coach killer. His demeanor on the sideline has been tempered so I know he's been spoken to and these player outbursts are the result of losing.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 12, 2023, 10:12:29 PMIs he a springboard diver now? What did he say???? Not all of us use X/Twitter. So blanket reposts mean nothing without context.
He was a huge DJ supporter and passed out the Kool Aid. This is the first I've seen where he threw up his hands. Almost seemed like sarcasm. But it's not.
https://x.com/lt4kicks/status/1723858510843084851?
Quote from: TDToomer on November 12, 2023, 10:12:29 PMIs he a springboard diver now? What did he say???? Not all of us use X/Twitter. So blanket reposts mean nothing without context.
You should be able to read the tweet without an account. On a browser this site will show you the tweet as well.
Dan Snyder said
QuoteI didn't expect the #Giants to compete with a playoff team who already beat them 40-0 Week 1 when everyone was healthy. I don't expect Devito to be competitive in general, tbh.
BUT the sideline spats b/w Shep & Slayton and Daboll & Wink are at least somewhat concerning to me.
Tynes said
QuoteTHE NEW YORK FOOTBALL GIANTS FRANCHISE IS BROKEN!
Quote from: bobalobabingbong on November 12, 2023, 10:21:52 PMYou should be able to read the tweet without an account. On a browser this site will show you the tweet as well.
Dan Snyder said
Tynes said
I can read the tweet and it is meaningless. Tynes is not a serious football critic. I don't see him on TV. I don't hear him on the radio. Anyone can post on X. So why should we take anything he posts seriously?
48-22
38-7
40-0
49-17
You trust Daboll will do better? This guy is Joe Judge 2.0. He might be worse. That 6-1 start is basically saving him.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 12, 2023, 10:34:20 PMI can read the tweet and it is meaningless. Tynes is not a serious football critic. I don't see him on TV. I don't hear him on the radio. Anyone can post on X. So why should we take anything he posts seriously?
I must have misunderstood you. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Most of the tweets I have seen from him (admittedly very few as I also do not use twitter) were just as meaningless.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 12, 2023, 10:34:20 PMI can read the tweet and it is meaningless. Tynes is not a serious football critic. I don't see him on TV. I don't hear him on the radio. Anyone can post on X. So why should we take anything he posts seriously?
I get that but he influences the followers as does the media and other former players. When the collective then turn against the team, it has a real effect on the owners and they make rash decisions.
That's what this thread is all about. It's not calling out for Daboll to be fired. It's saying all of these issues may result in him not surviving.
The last thing I want is to lose yet another HC after two seasons.
Quote from: bobalobabingbong on November 12, 2023, 10:37:25 PMI must have misunderstood you. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Most of the tweets I have seen from him (admittedly very few as I also do not use twitter) were just as meaningless.
Quote from: Giantleap56 on November 12, 2023, 10:36:48 PM48-22
38-7
40-0
49-17
You trust Daboll will do better? This guy is Joe Judge 2.0. He might be worse. That 6-1 start is basically saving him.
Dallas has more talent at every single position than the Giants. Put Barry Switzer on the sideline for Dallas and put Parcells or Coughlin on the Giants and the results would be pretty damn close.
We had a full complement of starters against them in the season opener and got shut out. Dallas didn't pull their starters until late in the 4th and we still couldn't score.
Today, we trotted out a 3rd string rookie at QB and put up 17 points. Daboll is not the problem. Let him pick his QB instead of asking him to play with someone else's leftovers.
Quote from: Giantleap56 on November 12, 2023, 10:36:48 PM48-22
38-7
40-0
49-17
You trust Daboll will do better? This guy is Joe Judge 2.0. He might be worse. That 6-1 start is basically saving him.
Daboll took over a bad team last year that should have won 4-5 games and ended up winning 9. Winning 9 games last year likely did himself, Joe Schoen and this entire franchise a disservice because it delayed the reset this team needed. It completely changed how they approached the offseason and threw short-term expectations out of whack. They probably needed to start over at the QB position even if that meant just bringing in a bridge guy like Baker Mayfield or Jameis Winston while waiting for an opportunity to draft their QB.
There isn't a position group on this team where we are even remotely on par with the Cowboys and Eagles and yet I still see Giants' fans in utter disbelief when they completely blow us out. This was a mediocre roster at best even before we lost our top 2 QBs and becomes one of the worst with our third string QB in there. Getting blown out like this is not an indictment on the coaches, it's an indictment on the roster that is still in the rebuilding phase.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 12, 2023, 06:00:33 PMAnd that means the entire Coaching Staff goes. Wink included. This is bad, this is very, very bad.
Ed: Are the title and original post representative of your personal viewpoint, or are you making a prediction? Bob
I missed the game. Lucky me. But from all reports, Daboll lost, or is losing, an already bad team. Hate to bring this up, but I was on record as hoping the Giants would hire Flores. I wonder how much different results would have been? Would they be as undisciplined a team? We will never know.
This team will be miserable the next several years.
Quote from: Messiah717 on November 13, 2023, 05:38:10 AMThis team will be miserable the next several years.
If they draft a capable QB they have enough picks/FA money to make the playoffs next year. But they HAVE to hit on the QB or nothing else matters.
Quote from: Messiah717 on November 13, 2023, 05:38:10 AMThis team will be miserable the next several years.
I think it's impossible to make such a statement with any confidence. NFL teams can, and frequently do, turn from garbage into something respectable (or better than that in 1-2 years).
I am certainly not saying we will definitely do that. I really don't know. But the idea that it's impossible or that a "several year" forecast can be made today is far-fetched to me. I wonder how many fans back in 2011-2012 would have believed that the team was a year away from being a bottom three or four NFL franchise for the ensuing decade.
Answer: almost zero, if not actually zero.
Reality: the NFL is structured in a way that makes it very hard to predict what a team will look like beyond a couple of years at most.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 12, 2023, 10:42:02 PMI get that but he influences the followers as does the media and other former players. When the collective then turn against the team, it has a real effect on the owners and they make rash decisions.
That's what this thread is all about. It's not calling out for Daboll to be fired. It's saying all of these issues may result in him not surviving.
The last thing I want is to lose yet another HC after two seasons.
Ugg you used the "I" word. Influencer. This SM phenomenon is so gross. But since you brought it up who exactly is our former kicker "influencing"? I care about what Carl Banks thinks not Tynes.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 13, 2023, 08:30:26 AMUgg you used the "I" word. Influencer. This SM phenomenon is so gross. But since you brought it up who exactly is our former kicker "influencing"? I care about what Carl Banks thinks not Tynes.
Sometimes all you have to do is float an idea and let someone else run with it. Whether it has merit or not, if the "right" person/people get behind it, it will take off.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 13, 2023, 08:30:26 AMUgg you used the "I" word. Influencer. This SM phenomenon is so gross. But since you brought it up who exactly is our former kicker "influencing"? I care about what Carl Banks thinks not Tynes.
His followers who then influence others. Did you see Ralph's tweet that I put up? Schneier's? Then they get hundreds of comments which influence attitude. The whole thing then snowballs. Causation.
Perception of the fan base influences the owners. You've been around long enough to see what happens with this organization.
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 13, 2023, 12:49:13 AMEd: Are the title and original post representative of your personal viewpoint, or are you making a prediction? Bob
If moves aren't made and things continue status quo, what does that show Mara and Tisch? It's an observation through experience Bob.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 08:48:40 AMIf moves aren't made and things continue status quo, what does that show Mara and Tisch? It's an observation through experience Bob.
Your observation is not without basis. I think Daboll most definitely gets a third year. If they draft a QB in April, it will possible buy Daboll a 4th, depending on what improvements the team makes (being competitive each week).
Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2023, 08:54:47 AMYour observation is not without basis. I think Daboll most definitely gets a third year. If they draft a QB in April, it will possible buy Daboll a 4th, depending on what improvements the team makes (being competitive each week).
We are now ten games into the season. Daboll had stuck with everyone on his Coaching Staff and although he can't replace multiple coaches in season and further disrupt the team, it was quite apparent he could have made at least one of three obviously needed changes.
If a HC can't diagnose the weak links and fails to take action, then it falls on him.
Leadership requires making tough decisions. Whether that leader is in the Military or is a Retail Manager, a production manager or the President of the United States.
Who's responsible for the poor Offensive Line play? Blame it on the injuries? Who's responsible for poor Special Teams play? Stupid players? Who's responsible for preparing the Offense, it's players and the execution as well as designing plays and calling the right play in every situation?
In every aspect this entire team broke down and was exposed.
There are some good players out there making mistakes and demonstrating poor execution.
Tim, I don't think Daboll "definitely" gets a third year. I think for sure Schoen does.
Like I said somewhere, wait until this xxxx show comes back to NJ.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 13, 2023, 08:30:26 AMUgg you used the "I" word. Influencer. This SM phenomenon is so gross. But since you brought it up who exactly is our former kicker "influencing"? I care about what Carl Banks thinks not Tynes.
FWIW Carl Banks is on Twitter, has over 78,000 followers, and posts and retweets very regularly.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 09:16:37 AMTim, I don't think Daboll "definitely" gets a third year. I think for sure Schoen does.
Interesting distinction.
Since Schoen was very involved in, if not the primary driver of, the Daboll hire, if Daboll gets fired will that depend on Schoen agreeing to it, or will that be an ownership call?
Also, if Daboll gets fired and not Schoen, will Schoen have more, less, or the same amount of input in the decision on Daboll's replacement?
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 12, 2023, 09:11:29 PMhttps://x.com/lt4kicks/status/1723871673588285819?
From the same guy telling fans they didn't know what they were talking about and that Jones was the franchise guy. Tynes needs to calm down on his takes as he has some strange ones.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 13, 2023, 09:20:26 AMFWIW Carl Banks is on Twitter, has over 78,000 followers, and posts and retweets very regularly.
Let's see if Carl tells it like it is today. I think he exposes all the problems but falls short of being critical of the GM and HC. You don't xxxx where you eat.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 09:16:37 AMWe are now ten games into the season. Daboll had stuck with everyone on his Coaching Staff and although he can't replace multiple coaches in season and further disrupt the team, it was quite apparent he could have made at least one of three obviously needed changes.
If a HC can't diagnose the weak links and fails to take action, then it falls on him.
Leadership requires making tough decisions. Whether that leader is in the Military or is a Retail Manager, a production manager or the President of the United States.
Who's responsible for the poor Offensive Line play? Blame in on the injuries? Who's responsible for poor Special Teams play? Stupid players? Who's responsible for preparing the Offense, it's players and the execution as well as designing plays and calling the right play in every situation?
In every aspect this entire team broke down and was exposed.
There are some good players out there making mistakes and demonstrating poor execution.
Tim, I don't think Daboll "definitely" gets a third year. I think for sure Schoen does.
Like I said somewhere, wait until this xxxx show comes back to NJ.
I'm with you on the full responsibility front. Kafka should be sitting at home on game days. Maybe they do it over the bye?
Firing Daboll sends an absolutely horrible message to fire yet another coach after only two seasons. What's worse is he's been handcuffed by a QB he could not be consistently successful with. And he's played less than half a season on his new contract. Sure, call him to task on the things that he could have been better at. He's also a rookie head coach. He's not going to be perfect. I don't see Schoen throwing Daboll under the bus and making him the scapegoat. Mara certainly isn't going to suggest it, especially if he feels that the organization "did everything to ruin this kid [Jones]."
Schoen knows what they inherited and he's going to give Daboll a fair shot at showing what he can do with his own QB. I'm willing to put a 6-pack of your favorite cold ones on it. :cheers:
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 13, 2023, 09:24:58 AMFrom the same guy telling fans they didn't know what they were talking about and that Jones was the franchise guy. Tynes needs to calm down on his takes as he has some strange ones.
Yup a complete 180.
Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2023, 09:26:22 AMI'm with you on the full responsibility front. Kafka should be sitting at home on game days. Maybe they do it over the bye?
Firing Daboll sends an absolutely horrible message to fire yet another coach after only two seasons. What's worse is he's been handcuffed by a QB he could not be consistently successful with. And he's played less than half a season on his new contract. Sure, call him to task on the things that he could have been better at. He's also a rookie head coach. He's not going to be perfect. I don't see Schoen throwing Daboll under the bus and making him the scapegoat. Mara certainly isn't going to suggest it, especially if he feels that the organization "did everything to ruin this kid [Jones]."
Schoen knows what they inherited and he's going to give Daboll a fair shot at showing what he can do with his own QB. I'm willing to put a 6-pack of your favorite cold ones on it. :cheers:
Tim, I guarantee you that Mara and Schoen will have that discussion. There is a long enough list of points to support it. I don't think they make any changes in season. But if the OC, DC, Oline coaches all go after the season...
I just don't get the overreaction. Anyone that thought we were going to have a good game yesterday are likley the same people that thought we were going to have the greatest show on turf after the panthers preseason game.
Yesterday was nothing more than evaluating young talent and old talent to see who's here next year. Sadly the overreaction is so loud about Daboll who will clearly be here next year that we didn't discuss Belton getting significant reps or at least it seemed that way plus flotts first pick etc. Actual development on the team.
I watched Daboll's post-game presser and he sounds disconnected from reality. Not that I expect him to dump on his team but his answers make it sound like he thinks these games aren't complete blowouts. Have real questions about Daboll's temperament and also whether he is not just overwhelmed coaching in NY.
It makes me think of the famous MLK quote: "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
https://x.com/ihihyaam/status/1723840533007601904?s=20
They can fire the medical staff, specials, and both coordinators. I'd be down with that but dabolls a good coach.
I just don't understand what Daboll should have been able to do. He and Schoen based every offseason decision on Jones taking another step forward. Once he took a Giant leap backwards instead the season was tanked. Taylor wasn't winning 9 games. Devito certainly isn't going to win a game. And that's not his fault or Daboll's fault. Stuff happens. Next year they will have a new QB and if the Giants get even close to the production from that guy that the Texans are getting out of Stroud they'll be better than they were even last season.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 12, 2023, 06:03:47 PMI don't get it. Did people think this game was going to be competitive? Look who we have at QB.
Did the QB give up 49 pts.?
It was a lost season long before Danny DeVito started a game. Let's not forget all the preseason hype was followed by a full strength 40-0 humiliating loss to Dallas. This is what Daboll prepared the team for.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 13, 2023, 10:04:09 AMIt was a lost season long before Danny DeVito started a game. Let's not forget all the preseason hype was followed by a full strength 40-0 humiliating loss to Dallas. This is what Daboll prepared the team for.
(https://pics.craiyon.com/2023-10-29/86ab437349224105a781956b300128d4.webp)
Quote from: TDToomer on November 12, 2023, 09:44:19 PMAnd? Is Tynes going to give us as in depth analysis and hot take of his former team or just try to get liked on Twitter? What a useless comment by Tynes which is pretty much his entire feed.
I disagree. I think he is playing off of Mara's famous "The offense is broken" statement to put the blame exactly where it belongs. Not the offense, not the defense, not the special teams, not the coach, and not the GM. The FRANCHISE. Which means the owner.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 13, 2023, 09:42:04 AMI watched Daboll's post-game presser and he sounds disconnected from reality. Not that I expect him to dump on his team but his answers make it sound like he thinks these games aren't complete blowouts. Have real questions about Daboll's temperament and also whether he is not just overwhelmed coaching in NY.
It makes me think of the famous MLK quote: "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Great quote!
I'm going to address the elephant in the room. I think most all of us here like Brian Daboll the man and we all want him to succeed. It's also very distasteful to replace yet another HC after two seasons and after he showed so much promise last season.
It's becoming quite apparent to some of us who aren't blinded into thinking the criticism is an overreaction and I'm referring to some of the players, media, fans outside and in here, that Brian Daboll is a classic Peter Principal.
He's a very good OC, Play Caller and QB Guru. He may not be Head Coach material.
Can he learn? Can he reinvent himself? Absolutely he can with the right team of coaches around him and a solid cast of players.
He has to separate his personal feelings for the players and coaches from influencing his decisions.
He fully supported Daniel Jones. His input to Schoen had to influence the decision to bring in receiving weapons instead of better Oline players and depth.
He fully supported Bobby Johnson over two seasons of poor results in development of his players and the decision to rotate the players in camp.
He has developed a working relationship with Kafka because he's subservient and he's mentoring him. But Kafka is a lousy game coach and has designed both good and bad plays but sticks with what doesn't work. What the heck was with that comical wildcat clusterfuck? Why did he abandon the run early on and then become so predictable with it later on in the season?
Daboll is making poor in game decisions.
He's become so emotional in real time that even when he restrains himself, he's so scrambled he can't think straight and now his players are having emotional outbursts on the sidelines, which disrupts the focus and resiliency of the team. When McKinney slams the DC, it's not an outlier. It's a symptom of what's being whispered in the locker room.
Then I have to criticize Schoen for not properly supporting Daboll and that goes back to decisions made before the season started and by not bringing in a QB after Tyrod went down. Tommy DeVito is a tough kid, well liked and a natural leader as well as a nice feel good story but he was clearly not prepared or ready to step in. At some point the Defense has their minds on what's going on with that lousy Offense and they will mail it in.
The next few weeks will determine the future of Brian Daboll as the Head Coach of the NYGs.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 10:35:23 AMGreat quote!
I'm going to address the elephant in the room. I think most all of us here like Brian Daboll the man and we all want him to succeed. It's also very distasteful to replace yet another HC after two seasons and after he showed so much promise last season.
It's becoming quite apparent to some of us who aren't blinded into thinking the criticism is an overreaction and I'm referring to some of the players, media, fans outside and in here, that Brian Daboll is a classic Peter Principal.
He's a very good OC, Play Caller and QB Guru. He may not be Head Coach material.
Can he learn? Can he reinvent himself? Absolutely he can with the right team of coaches around him and a solid cast of players.
He has to separate his personal feelings for the players and coaches from influencing his decisions.
He fully supported Daniel Jones. His input to Schoen had to influence the decision to bring in receiving weapons instead of better Oline players and depth.
He fully supported Bobby Johnson over two seasons of poor results in development of his players and the decision to rotate the players in camp.
He has developed a working relationship with Kafka because he's subservient and he's mentoring him. But Kafka is a lousy game coach and has designed both good and bad plays but sticks with what doesn't work. What the heck was with that comical wildcat clusterfuck? Why did he abandon the run early on and then become so predictable with it later on in the season?
Daboll is making poor in game decisions.
He's become so emotional in real time that even when he restrains himself, he's so scrambled he can't think straight and now his players are having emotional outbursts on the sidelines, which disrupts the focus and resiliency of the team. When McKinney slams the DC, it's not an outlier. It's a symptom of what's being whispered in the locker room.
Then I have to criticize Schoen for not properly supporting Daboll and that goes back to decisions made before the season started and by not bringing in a QB after Tyrod went down. Tommy DeVito is a tough kid, well liked and a natural leader as well as a nice feel good story but he was clearly not prepared or ready to step in. At some point the Defense has their minds on what's going on with that lousy Offense and they will mail it in.
The next few weeks will determine the future of Brian Daboll as the Head Coach of the NYGs.
Why do you suppose he was so successful last year?
There is zero chance that Brian Daboll will not be the Giants HC in 2024. I repeat: zero, no chance, nil, Ney!, negative, nada. The reason should be obvious.
Even with the absence or unavailability of essential players at QB and throughout the roster, the team's performance, and outcomes are inexplicable to the owners, staff, players individually and as a whole, to the media, and to us chickens.
And to be sure, there is nothing to gained other than catering to our personal conceits by now concluding that last season's COTY was and is a fraud. Even if that was so, it does nothing to explain the facts of this otherwise inexplicable season nor will anything which occurs for better or worse over the remaining 7 games.
The tragedy of this season is that we now have even more unanswered questions and face greater challenges than we might have imagined. Still, there is nothing to be gained by indulging our frustration when otherwise guided by the evil wins, Rush and Rash.
Cheers!
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 13, 2023, 10:39:23 AMWhy do you suppose he was so successful last year?
He came in after an autocrat who was a strict disciplinarian that lost the team. But the fundamentals were there.
He was a breath of fresh air who walked into an easy schedule and had some luck on his side, but take a hard look at how the season ended. They were 3-6-1 to end the season and they beat a Vikings team with a high school secondary. The Eagles exposed them for who they were but the wheels started falling off last season.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 10:46:14 AMHe came in after an autocrat who was a strict disciplinarian that lost the team. But the fundamentals were there.
He was a breath of fresh air who walked into an easy schedule and had some luck on his side, but take a hard look at how the season ended. They were 3-6-1 to end the season and they beat a Vikings team with a high school secondary. The Eagles exposed them for who they were but the wheels started falling off last season.
Right but I kinda think that is the main reason why this isn't Daboll's fault. He took a team that was basically as lousy as this one, and got them to play over their heads. Particularly the QB. If we are to give him all the blame for this season and call for his job, I don't know how we can take away all of the credit for last year when he was the Coach of the Year. The performance last year was over achieving, the performance this year is under achieving, but the actual skill level of the team is somewhere in the middle. Until you lose your top two QBs to injury at which point no matter what you do the team is going to get pummeled. It's the biggest reason why I don't think teams should even carry a 3rd QB at all. Anybody pulled off the street can do what Devito is doing so why bother having him around at all.
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 13, 2023, 10:53:48 AMRight but I kinda think that is the main reason why this isn't Daboll's fault. He took a team that was basically as lousy as this one, and got them to play over their heads. Particularly the QB. If we are to give him all the blame for this season and call for his job, I don't know how we can take away all of the credit for last year when he was the Coach of the Year. The performance last year was over achieving, the performance this year is under achieving, but the actual skill level of the team is somewhere in the middle. Until you lose your top two QBs to injury at which point no matter what you do the team is going to get pummeled. It's the biggest reason why I don't think teams should even carry a 3rd QB at all. Anybody pulled off the street can do what Devito is doing so why bother having him around at all.
I don't have much more to say without overstating my points. Go back to the country club training camp and how woefully unprepared this team was entering the season.
Other than that, I just have to disagree with some of you folks here.
Like I said multiple times, I like Brian Daboll a lot and I hope he rights his ship.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 13, 2023, 09:42:04 AMI watched Daboll's post-game presser and he sounds disconnected from reality. Not that I expect him to dump on his team but his answers make it sound like he thinks these games aren't complete blowouts.
Doc: Daboll is correct.
What he's saying (using "for-public-consumption" language) is... they're not as bad as they look right now.
What he avoided saying was... the same number of mistakes against a bad team look much different than those mistakes against a top team. I got flak saying preseason that this is Cowboys year (not Eagles/Niners/etc. in NFC). They will go to the Super Bowl (and probably lose, because Dak will likely not be up to the task) but the point is... against a good team, you almost can't make ANY blunders because they'll turn them into TD's almost every time. And that's what happened yesterday, generally speaking.
Bob
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 13, 2023, 10:53:48 AMRight but I kinda think that is the main reason why this isn't Daboll's fault. He took a team that was basically as lousy as this one, and got them to play over their heads. Particularly the QB. If we are to give him all the blame for this season and call for his job, I don't know how we can take away all of the credit for last year when he was the Coach of the Year. The performance last year was over achieving, the performance this year is under achieving, but the actual skill level of the team is somewhere in the middle. Until you lose your top two QBs to injury at which point no matter what you do the team is going to get pummeled. It's the biggest reason why I don't think teams should even carry a 3rd QB at all. Anybody pulled off the street can do what Devito is doing so why bother having him around at all.
Gm: If I'm on your side, but I think your post (I agree with all of it) needs a little balance and (not to speak for Ed) I believe that was the point Ed is making. Bob
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 13, 2023, 10:03:48 AMDid the QB give up 49 pts.?
Insomuch as he rarely kept the defense on the sideline to rest, yes?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Daboll(and Schoen) inherited a flawed at best roster and cap hell. He coaxed the best he could last year out of a QB from Duke who was drafted by a GM who would try to win the Indy 500 with an Edsel. The contract given to Jones was a compromise between Mara and his new leadership. Thus the two year out built in. I don't have proof of this but reading between the lines. Mara won't learn from his mistakes at least he hasn't at the time of this writing. Why? No matter what the Giants' record is the team makes money, and increases in value. He will never feel the financial pain he should for putting out this inferior product year after year. B/t/w I've been a diehard since 1965(9 yrs. old), a few weeks ago I compiled a W-L regular season record since then. They are 420-474. They are a historically losing franchise despite the four trophies. The one constant during that span of time is the Mara family. Every new coach/regime particularly one that comes from an offense background, and has vast experience being mentored by Masters of the profession should have their own QB. Period. McAdoo(remember him) wanted/pleaded to move up and draft Mahomes. Nah said Mara we've got Eli. EVERYONE knew Eli was on the 17th hole of an 18 hole career, but nah. Bill had Phil, Tom had Eli. Brian will rightfully get his QB. Then we'll see........
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 10:57:50 AMI don't have much more to say without overstating my points. Go back to the country club training camp and how woefully unprepared this team was entering the season.
Other than that, I just have to disagree with some of you folks here.
Like I said multiple times, I like Brian Daboll a lot and I hope he rights his ship.
A team being significantly worse than the team across from them could make them look unprepared. The team wasn't unprepared, they're just not very good. We are not remotely on the same level as the Cowboys right now. There are very few spots where the Giants are even on par with the Cowboys so why would you expect a game between these two teams to be close?
I keep harping on this, but at some point your talent has to be better than the guys across from them. Coaching can only be asked to make up for so many deficiencies, but bad O-line plus bad QB is a recipe for disaster for almost anyone. If you want a good example just look at New England. Did Belichick suddenly become a bad coach or is it possible that Brady was more important than Belichick ever was?
What's the definition of insanity?
https://x.com/giantswfan/status/1724104850936414499?
The problem is
D Jones gets hurt. A lot
I think everyone knew that T Taylor wouldnt last more than 3 games or so
So you have to realize this
Once Jones get hurt you make calls if you know devitto.is.not the answer
Did anyone really think taylor would last the season ?
If not you have to expect jones to get hurt
Once he does
You make the calls
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 13, 2023, 10:39:23 AMWhy do you suppose he was so successful last year?
Frankly, luck. The 6-1 start was largely smoke and mirrors. And a team shouldn't make the playoffs when they are negative on points differential.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 13, 2023, 12:21:00 PMFrankly, luck. The 6-1 start was largely smoke and mirrors. And a team shouldn't make the playoffs when they are negative on points differential.
And then so if good luck is not a reflection of good coaching, then would it not make sense to say that bad luck is not a reflection of bad coaching?
Because Jones reverting to an amateur, losing both of our top 2 QBs to injury, a million OL injuries, Zach Wilson making two plays he never makes, refs not calling PI against Waller, these all feel like bad luck to me.
(https://i.imgur.com/L7UhhZW.png)
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 09:26:02 AMLet's see if Carl tells it like it is today. I think he exposes all the problems but falls short of being critical of the GM and HC. You don't xxxx where you eat.
The dude works for the Giants media. He's a good guy but he's never going to directly criticize leadership.
I don't think Daboll's 6-1 start last season was luck. I think it was because the regime change gave the team momentum, Daboll was a breath of fresh air after Joe Judge who was possibly the least qualified HC the franchise hired since the early 1970s and looked like a mediocre actor playing a "tough guy" coach on some bad tv movie. In the first half of last season, opposing teams didn't know quite what to expect and the Giants pulled off a bunch of wins because of that, and because things came together for them personnel-wise. Also, Jones played to his full potential, and with Barkley back, the team clicked, for a while.
Once teams caught on to what the Giants were doing, on offense and defense, it all came to a screeching halt. Right now, these coaches are clearly fresh out of ideas. Daboll looks like a guy who just doesn't know what to do. He is making poor decisions and is unable to explain them in his pressers. Sorry, it's not about De Vito. The Giants have fielded bad QBs in the past. I mean really bad. But even then they were competitive. De Vito didn't give up 49 points yesterday. I remember bad seasons but I don't remember seasons with blowouts like this, the game being over in the 1st quarter and just getting worse from there. Games where there's no hope at all. The Giants were often losers, but they were tragic losers, fighting hard. Even in the 70s. This feels different.
May I remind everyone that this season is far from over. They are 2-8 and have 7 more games to play. Things could get much uglier. If they just get blown out in every game - and that could happen - I'm sorry but all your declarations about how De Vito sucks and no coach could win with him, or about how you don't fire another coach after two seasons, or all the other stuff, go right out the window. You can't have a team lose game after game by 30-40 points. Especially if it happens at Met Life. You don't even need a head coach for that. You can get a similar result with the players coaching themselves.
If the Giants manage to play competitive football down the stretch and get a couple more wins in the the process, finishing 4-13 but giving the fans some hope to cling to for next season, Daboll survives. But let's say the Giants lose their rest of their games in blowouts - sorry but that's not tenable, even for a stiff like John Mara. Schoen, who is still much better at his job than Gettleman was, might be told that he has more time to try to right the ship and he and Mara go shopping for yet another coach, and they draft J J McCarthy or Drake. They will probably get the head coach hire wrong again, but that's another story.
I was and as of today, still in favor of keeping Daboll despite how poor a job he has done up to now And yes, injuries, lack of talent, bad luck, etc, etc, he has done a very poor job of coaching this season. Now if the losses continue as they have; blowouts without being competitive, I'm not so sure I can support him going forward. The problem is, has been, and will continue to be ownership. His whispers have influenced hiring and even drafting. And these are the results. The only respite we Giant fans have had from the horrors of the Mara family and their lack of understanding team building in the 20th and 21st Century was when the commissioner forced a GM on them. Other than that, they have been a terribly run franchise.
Quote from: BlueMoshik on November 13, 2023, 01:01:34 PMIf the Giants manage to play competitive football down the stretch and get a couple more wins in the the process, finishing 4-13 but giving the fans some hope to cling to for next season, Daboll survives. But let's say the Giants lose their rest of their games in blowouts - sorry but that's not tenable, even for a stiff like John Mara. Schoen, who is still much better at his job than Gettleman was, might be told that he has more time to try to right the ship and he and Mara go shopping for yet another coach, and they draft J J McCarthy or Drake. They will probably get the head coach hire wrong again, but that's another story.
The team went 9-7-1 last year and won a playoff game. They brought back most of the same roster with a few upgrades and now they're awful. What would winning an extra game or two do or prove to you? In all likelihood, they can hang around in a few games the rest of the way and will get blown out by the Eagles twice. That's what happens when you're on your 3rd string QB. It becomes very difficult to compete in this league.
Last year's offensive success was largely smoke and mirrors. Like you said, they got the most they could out of Daniel Jones, which is kind of a glaring indictment of Daniel Jones. That said, you can only rely on the coaches scheming your way to success for so long. This offense is bad and would be bad with anyone at the helm. When that happens, the defense can only hold out for so long and ends up on the field most of the game. People need to stop expecting magic out of coaches and start living in reality. A different coach wouldn't magically make this team more competitive.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 12:31:05 PM(https://i.imgur.com/L7UhhZW.png)
You know I respect these gentlemen, but they were on the DJ bandwagon until it was over. They influence their followers too. Guarantee you that as soon as they change course on Daboll, their flock does too.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 03:04:19 PMYou know I respect these gentlemen, but they were on the DJ bandwagon until it was over. They influence their followers too. Guarantee you that as soon as they change course on Daboll, their flock does too.
Considering the DJ bandwagon ended with injuries, I am unsure of the point you are making.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 03:09:08 PMConsidering the DJ bandwagon ended with injuries, I am unsure of the point you are making.
The point is they said that he was playing the worst football of his career. Sorry, I should have known you were still on that bandwagon.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 03:15:59 PMThe point is they said that he was playing the worst football of his career. Sorry, I should have known you were still on that bandwagon.
I have never been a fan of "I told you so" posting, and I am even less of a fan of negating everything off of half a dozen games under the worst conditions.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 03:17:25 PMI have never been a fan of "I told you so" posting, and I am even less of a fan of negating everything off of half a dozen games under the worst conditions.
You asked and btw, he's a coach killer. I said it two years ago and held out hope. He's hopeless Rich. Give it up.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 03:20:03 PMYou asked and btw, he's a coach killer. I said it two years ago and held out hope. He's hopeless Rich. Give it up.
You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to my different opinion. We can disagree, but it's not appropriate to put others down for having a different opinion.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 03:24:43 PMYou are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to my different opinion. We can disagree, but it's not appropriate to put others down for having a different opinion.
Not putting you down. You're still on the bandwagon. Calling a spade a spade. Your wisecrack comment says it all. "Considering the DJ bandwagon ended with injuries, I am unsure of the point you are making." Who's putting who down Rich?
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 03:31:40 PMNot putting you down. You're still on the bandwagon. Calling a spade a spade. Your wisecrack comment says it all. "Considering the DJ bandwagon ended with injuries, I am unsure of the point you are making." Who's putting who down Rich?
That wasn't a wisecrack; it was my effort to try and keep things respectful. To suggest that people who were "on the DJ bandwagon" are flawed or don't know what they are talking about is, as I suggested, inappropriate, especially in light of injury issues. We always preach to be respectful and allow all viewpoints, and that comment seemed to be the antithesis of what we preach.
I can't imagine they will fire Daboll if for no other reason that they don't want to go through another search. He knows offense and we have a chance to draft a franchise QB next April so I think the prevailing thought from ownership would be to give this GM/Coach a chance with their own QB and see if we get back to "Coach of the Year" days.
However it's not the 2-8 record that is the problem, it's losing by 40 points every week. I don't know if any coach can survive that, they just look lifeless and pathetic. How do you justify retaining that? I don't ever remember days this bad and I was around for the Kent Graham days.
Quote from: StompYouOT on November 13, 2023, 03:41:35 PMI can't imagine they will fire Daboll if for no other reason that they don't want to go through another search. He knows offense and we have a chance to draft a franchise QB next April so I think the prevailing thought from ownership would be to give this GM/Coach a chance with their own QB and see if we get back to "Coach of the Year" days.
However it's not the 2-8 record that is the problem, it's losing by 40 points every week. I don't know if any coach can survive that, they just look lifeless and pathetic. How do you justify retaining that? I don't ever remember days this bad and I was around for the Kent Graham days.
You could easily justify it by saying there's nothing they can do. They're going to lose by 30 points every single week regardless of who's coaching or what the situation is because they don't have a QB. And because of that, the offense is going 3 and out or turning it over every possession and the defense can hold their own for a while but eventually it'll all unravel and they lose by 30. Nothing can or will change that except for the opponent inexplicably doing some incredibly stupid things to keep the game close.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 03:35:21 PMThat wasn't a wisecrack; it was my effort to try and keep things respectful. To suggest that people who were "on the DJ bandwagon" are flawed or don't know what they are talking about is, as I suggested, inappropriate, especially in light of injury issues. We always preach to be respectful and allow all viewpoints, and that comment seemed to be the antithesis of what we preach.
So now you're going to attempt to control content based on observation of other sites? It wasn't meant to be disrespectful and you know it. It's a fact. Getting back to the point here, their followers will vote according to how they were influenced by their content. If another site that wasn't supportive all season took a vote, they would get different results. The lack of Daboll support may be a vocal minority but it's certainly not less than 10%. Among his followers it is. If this keeps up, less than 10% will go up and up.
Right now they support Daboll. They are on the Daboll bandwagon. That can change.
As I said, Daboll most likely will be back and should be back barring a series of upcoming lopsided losses to mediocre teams. But he has done a poor job of coaching this year and deserves to be chastised for it.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 03:24:43 PMYou are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to my different opinion. We can disagree, but it's not appropriate to put others down for having a different opinion.
Does that just apply to football or does it apply to all things?
Quote from: Painter on November 13, 2023, 10:45:51 AMThere is zero chance that Brian Daboll will not be the Giants HC in 2024. I repeat: zero, no chance, nil, Ney!, negative, nada. The reason should be obvious.
Even with the absence or unavailability of essential players at QB and throughout the roster, the team's performance, and outcomes are inexplicable to the owners, staff, players individually and as a whole, to the media, and to us chickens.
And to be sure, there is nothing to gained other than catering to our personal conceits by now concluding that last season's COTY was and is a fraud. Even if that was so, it does nothing to explain the facts of this otherwise inexplicable season nor will anything which occurs for better or worse over the remaining 7 games.
The tragedy of this season is that we now have even more unanswered questions and face greater challenges than we might have imagined. Still, there is nothing to be gained by indulging our frustration when otherwise guided by the evil twins, Rush and Rash.
Cheers!
There is talk sometimes of coaches ho wear out their welcome with players agter 6-7 years as their personalities grind on players.
Dabs has come across as a player's coach not a task master. If he is losing the team in terms of not getting them to listen to him, what does that say about him or the players in the team?
The team has quit.
Quote from: Philosophers on November 14, 2023, 11:30:31 AMThere is talk sometimes of coaches ho wear out their welcome with players agter 6-7 years as their personalities grind on players.
Dabs has come across as a player's coach not a task master. If he is losing the team in terms of not getting them to listen to him, what does that say about him or the players in the team?
The team has quit.
Brings to mind that there is a difference in losing the locker room and not risking injury by the level of intensity on the field. You make a good point.
When I see a complete turnaround in Run Blocking from one week to the next and two consecutive abysmal showings by the Defense and a steep decline from their peak, it's an indication that it's more than just talent. Watching the Bills last night with all their mistakes I saw a high level of intensity. They have to show enough not to hurt their market value but there are situations where it's contested passes, gang tackling and getting blindsided where it becomes a business decision.
I'm not as sure as you are but it's something to watch.