With Williams still available at #4, do the Giants trade up or simply hold at #7 and take the "best available"
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IMO we need players and cannot afford the draft capital to move up for anyone in this draft.
Williams won't make it past two. If this was Jayden Daniels and not Williams it's a different story.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 23, 2023, 04:17:03 PMWilliams won't make it past two. If this was Jayden Daniels and not Williams it's a different story.
Yes well this was a "What if?" conversation starter and none of us can state AS FACT, that Williams doesn't get past #2.
I'm interested in finding out how important the franchise QB is to our fellow fans...and who among them believe that it is Williams.
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Yes, I would make the move to trade up if that were an option and our front office had a high enough rating on the player. You can't put a price on the value of getting a top QB. Of course there are no guarantees that he or anyone else will be great, and there is major risk involved, but I think that would be a risk worth taking assuming our front office strongly believes in the prospect.
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on December 23, 2023, 04:04:13 PMWith Williams still available at #4, do the Giants trade up or simply hold at #7 and take the "best available"
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My USC fans who watched Williams a lot absolutely swear by him as the real deal.
I think the Giants want another QB in case DJ fails in 2024 but I think they still hold out hope DJ can be their guy. That said, I dont think they trade up in round 1 and lose draft capital. I think they either take a different QB at 6-7th pick or draft another position and try to land one in round 2.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 23, 2023, 04:17:03 PMWilliams won't make it past two. If this was Jayden Daniels and not Williams it's a different story.
This is the correct answer.
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on December 23, 2023, 04:34:34 PMYes well this was a "What if?" conversation starter and none of us can state AS FACT, that Williams doesn't get past #2.
I'm interested in finding out how important the franchise QB is to our fellow fans...and who among them believe that it is Williams.
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I would do everything I could (within reason) to make the trade. Williams would give this franchise the biggest reason for optimism since the Eli trade.
Pats just beat Denver. If they beat the jets and we lose out we can get to 4th
If Williams is available at 4, the Giants better be doing whatever it takes to get the 4th pick.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 23, 2023, 04:40:44 PMYes, I would make the move to trade up if that were an option and our front office had a high enough rating on the player. You can't put a price on the value of getting a top QB. Of course there are no guarantees that he or anyone else will be great, and there is major risk involved, but I think that would be a risk worth taking assuming our front office strongly believes in the prospect.
If you are the GM are risk-averse, you will fail. Or at best, flounder.It's a risk business. The Giants and Accorsi took a risk making the trade for Eli. They gave up a future number one. I'd say that risk was worth it. It's up to Schoen to have the same convictions about a player to make that type of move.
Quote from: katkavage on December 25, 2023, 07:40:14 AMIf you are the GM are risk-averse, you will fail. Or at best, flounder.It's a risk business. The Giants and Accorsi took a risk making the trade for Eli. They gave up a future number one. I'd say that risk was worth it. It's up to Schoen to have the same convictions about a player to make that type of move.
Completely worth the risk assuming the front office has done their due diligence and has faith in the player. If they have done the work and they're not high on him, then take the BPA or trade down. But if they've done the due diligence and they are high on the QB, and there is way to get him, then it's worth going all-in on making it happen.
Also, what are we risking exactly? That we'll suck for another 3-4 years? We just sucked for 10. Plus if we DON'T draft a QB, what is our outlook exactly? We're going to extend Daniel Jones' contract, sign Barkley, and build them whole team around those two for the next 5-plus years? Really? Is that what people who don't want to draft a QB are actually advocating for?
Quote from: Section 101 Steve on December 24, 2023, 11:26:33 PMPats just beat Denver. If they beat the jets and we lose out we can get to 4th
Wouldnt the Pat's need to win 2 more games for that?
The Giants SOS is going to go up significantly with 2 games against the Eagles.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 25, 2023, 08:33:28 AMWouldnt the Pat's need to win 2 more games for that?
The Giants SOS is going to go up significantly with 2 games against the Eagles.
Good point. The Rams game may also boost it at this point (not sure about that but they're presently above .500).
For you guys who are hell-bent on a new QB at any cost, I suspect you will be very unhappy on draft day. Only my opinion, but I believe the front office and coaching staff like DJ a whole lot more than some fans. The Giants don't have a lot of draft capital to move forward, and even more unlikely to spend it to move for a player to replace the player they appear to be fully committed
I could be wrong...been wrong many times...but I believe Schoen/Daboll believe in DJ for the long haul and have no intentions of getting into a bidding war in order to shoot themselves in the foot at the expense of the rest of the team. Smart GMs and HCs build a team, fans collect football cards and zero in on individual star players. But this game is not an individual sport that requires a collection of stars. It's all about chemistry, coaching, and training that builds a good team. Teamwork always beats letting individual stars run loose
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 25, 2023, 09:09:09 AMFor you guys who are hell-bent on a new QB at any cost, I suspect you will be very unhappy on draft day. Only my opinion, but I believe the front office and coaching staff like DJ a whole lot more than some fans. The Giants don't have a lot of draft capital to move forward, and even more unlikely to spend it to move for a player to replace the player they appear to be fully committed
I could be wrong...been wrong many times...but I believe Schoen/Daboll believe in DJ for the long haul and have no intentions of getting into a bidding war in order to shoot themselves in the foot at the expense of the rest of the team. Smart GMs and HCs build a team, fans collect football cards and zero in on individual star players. But this game is not an individual sport that requires a collection of stars. It's all about chemistry, coaching, and training that builds a good team. Teamwork always beats letting individual stars run loose
To be abundantly clear, and just speaking for myself, I am only "hell-bent" on drafting a QB if our front office legitimately believes said prospect has a strong chance of being a top end starter in this league. Otherwise I have no interest. I have said this over and over again in multiple threads. So it's only "at all costs" if Schoen and his team have done extensive due diligence, far and beyond what even the most astute fans are capable of, and the opportunity to actually get said QB is possible.
So actually, I won't be "very unhappy" if we don't draft a QB, because I will take that to mean our front office and scouts were not fully sold on whoever was available. Or it will mean that one wasn't available even if we liked him, as there is no guarantee any of these teams will want to trade.
What would make me unhappy is if we are very high on a QB and either don't trade for him, either because Mara gave it the kibosh, or we got sticker shock about the price and can't pull the trigger. But most likely we won't have any way of knowing any of that for sure. If Schoen wanted to do it but Mara wouldn't let him, that is not going to be public info.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 25, 2023, 09:09:09 AMFor you guys who are hell-bent on a new QB at any cost, I suspect you will be very unhappy on draft day. Only my opinion, but I believe the front office and coaching staff like DJ a whole lot more than some fans. The Giants don't have a lot of draft capital to move forward, and even more unlikely to spend it to move for a player to replace the player they appear to be fully committed
I could be wrong...been wrong many times...but I believe Schoen/Daboll believe in DJ for the long haul and have no intentions of getting into a bidding war in order to shoot themselves in the foot at the expense of the rest of the team. Smart GMs and HCs build a team, fans collect football cards and zero in on individual star players. But this game is not an individual sport that requires a collection of stars. It's all about chemistry, coaching, and training that builds a good team. Teamwork always beats letting individual stars run loose
BTW, wanting to improve at the most important position in the sport, where we have been nothing short of terrible for several years now, is not "collecting football cards." It's having the best interests of the team at heart. We have been very bad at QB for years now. Yes, there are numerous other problems on this team. That goes without saying. But QB is the single most important position, and we have not been good enough there.
And even if you're right that Mara and Daboll believe in DJ long term, there is no way that any sane adult believes in his durability long term. The guy has had two serious neck injuries, an ACL, at least one concussion, multiple other injuries, and has missed a ton of games already, and he's only 26. Moreover the front office structured his contract in a way that allows them to pivot away from him more quickly than other big second QB contracts being given out allow teams to do.
So while I won't purport to know what is deep inside Schoen and Daboll's minds, I can at least observe and process indisputable facts. The first being that Jones is a brittle player, and that has been amply demonstrated over a meaningful sample size. The second is that his contract is set up with a two year emergency out and an easy three year out.
If you are correct that Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones long term, you'll see them restructure his contract in this offseason by alleviating the $47mmm cap hit that he is going to cost this team in 2024. If they believe in him long term they'll add future years and spread that hit out. If they don't do that, I would dispute the claim.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 25, 2023, 09:21:15 AMTo be abundantly clear, and just speaking for myself, I am only "hell-bent" on drafting a QB if our front office legitimately believes said prospect has a strong chance of being a top end starter in this league. Otherwise I have no interest. I have said this over and over again in multiple threads. So it's only "at all costs" if Schoen and his team have done extensive due diligence, far and beyond what even the most astute fans are capable of, and the opportunity to actually get said QB is possible.
So actually, I won't be "very unhappy" if we don't draft a QB, because I will take that to mean our front office and scouts were not fully sold on whoever was available. Or it will mean that one wasn't available even if we liked him, as there is no guarantee any of these teams will want to trade.
What would make me unhappy is if we are very high on a QB and either don't trade for him, either because Mara gave it the kibosh, or we got sticker shock about the price and can't pull the trigger. But most likely we won't have any way of knowing any of that for sure. If Schoen wanted to do it but Mara wouldn't let him, that is not going to be public info.
I don't believe Schoen would draft a QB without 100% belief in him. He already has DJ under contract. I also don't see Mara having to bless the pick, who knows jack squat about QBs in this draft.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 25, 2023, 09:27:31 AMI don't believe Schoen would draft a QB without 100% belief in him. He already has DJ under contract. I also don't see Mara having to bless the pick, who knows jack squat about QBs in this draft.
If they don't draft a QB, do you think they'll restructure Jones' contract to get that 2024 cap hit down and lock themselves in for more years?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 25, 2023, 09:29:38 AMIf they don't draft a QB, do you think they'll restructure Jones' contract to get that 2024 cap hit down and lock themselves in for more years?
I don't.
If we get better OL pass blocking AND average QB play, I think we are at least a 0.500 team. We won't get average QB play with an OL giving up likely 80 sacks in 17 games. No way. Do folks here even realize how high 80 sacks are over 17 games? How many times can you find 70+ sacks over 16 games in NFL history?
I would be more worried about our QB play of he were getting sacked say 45 times in a season (still fairly high) but at 80, the entire OL should be forfeiting as that is close to unprecedented.
Quote from: Philosophers on December 25, 2023, 11:28:59 AMIf we get better OL pass blocking AND average QB play, I think we are at least a 0.500 team. We won't get average QB play with an OL giving up likely 80 sacks in 17 games. No way. Do folks here even realize how high 80 sacks are over 17 games? How many times can you find 70+ sacks over 16 games in NFL history?
I would be more worried about our QB play of he were getting sacked say 45 times in a season (still fairly high) but at 80, the entire OL should be forfeiting as that is close to unprecedented.
We got collectively better QB play from our QB2 and QB3 behind the same line than we did from our QB1. I personally find that very problematic. Moreover the QB1 simply cannot stay on the field. He routinely sustains very serious injuries. It has happened in four out of his five years as a pro. I find that very problematic as well.
I fully agree that the line needs to be addressed (we have been saying this for a decade), but that doesn't automatically mean you don't take a QB in the first round. We have two second round picks and a day three pick. Those are all good spots to draft O linemen, and good O linemen can also be found on day three.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 25, 2023, 11:55:06 AMWe got collectively better QB play from our QB2 and QB3 behind the same line than we did from our QB1. I personally find that very problematic. Moreover the QB1 simply cannot stay on the field. He routinely sustains very serious injuries. It has happened in four out of his five years as a pro. I find that very problematic as well.
I fully agree that the line needs to be addressed (we have been saying this for a decade), but that doesn't automatically mean you don't take a QB in the first round. We have two second round picks and a day three pick. Those are all good spots to draft O linemen, and good O linemen can also be found on day three.
I think a lot of fans think because people want a new Qb that they don't think the Oline Is an issue. Obviously the oline is an issue with all the injuries etc that I think they fix in FA. The problem with the Oline doesn't change the fact that there is also a huge glaring problem at Qb.
I just don't see how anyone could be sold on any Qb on the roster currently. Jones has consistently been a below average Qb for his duration as a Giant. I mean look at Sam Howell, Washington is likely going to replace him in the draft and in his first full year starting is going to finish with more passing yards and passing Tds than Jones has ever had in a season. Last year for Jones "magical year" he basically had the same passing product that Davis Mills had, who the Texans replaced with Stroud. That's absolutely embarrassing that the fanbase is ok with the production we've had the past 5 years at Qb.
IMVHO the Jones contract extension has the stink of Mara meddling all over it.
Gun to their heads, I believe Schoen and Daboll admit as much.
This franchise has struggled for 10 years because various front office and coaching staffs have never been handed the baton with ownership blessing.
"It's your team, keep me in the loop on the Financial's and what you need...go build me a winner"
A new QB in the 1st few days of the '24 draft, combined with some key coaching and medical staff changes, will signal to me that Mara is finally ready to concede the error of his ways.
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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on December 25, 2023, 12:08:22 PMIMVHO the Jones contract extension has the stink of Mara meddling all over it.
https://twitter.com/SmoothZCBV/status/1739152026511049169
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 25, 2023, 12:15:07 PMhttps://twitter.com/SmoothZCBV/status/1739152026511049169
LOL! Good one!
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The Oline needs help but you can draft a QB in the first round and easily fortify the line with later picks and free agency.
Quote from: katkavage on December 25, 2023, 02:19:10 PMThe Oline needs help but you can draft a QB in the first round and easily fortify the line with later picks and free agency.
I agree, the two issues can be solved at the same time, it shouldnt be a one or the other situation. Plus I think the Giants need plug and play high level starters now. They don't currently have the luxury to draft a 5th round guy and give him time to acclimate. They need bodies now that can produce at least above average now.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 25, 2023, 03:59:41 PMI agree, the two issues can be solved at the same time, it shouldnt be a one or the other situation. Plus I think the Giants need plug and play high level starters now. They don't currently have the luxury to draft a 5th round guy and give him time to acclimate. They need bodies now that can produce at least above average now.
I'll take it a step further RE the OL:
I'm not 100% that there's not enough on the roster. Bring in a legit OL coach and let's see what we have.
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Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 25, 2023, 12:08:10 PMI think a lot of fans think because people want a new Qb that they don't think the Oline Is an issue. Obviously the oline is an issue with all the injuries etc that I think they fix in FA. The problem with the Oline doesn't change the fact that there is also a huge glaring problem at Qb.
I just don't see how anyone could be sold on any Qb on the roster currently. Jones has consistently been a below average Qb for his duration as a Giant. I mean look at Sam Howell, Washington is likely going to replace him in the draft and in his first full year starting is going to finish with more passing yards and passing Tds than Jones has ever had in a season. Last year for Jones "magical year" he basically had the same passing product that Davis Mills had, who the Texans replaced with Stroud. That's absolutely embarrassing that the fanbase is ok with the production we've had the past 5 years at Qb.
No what I am saying is feel free to invest in a QB but you wont get average play behind that existing OL. It has to be addressed.
Quote from: Philosophers on December 25, 2023, 06:10:56 PMNo what I am saying is feel free to invest in a QB but you wont get average play behind that existing OL. It has to be addressed.
I completely agree that Oline needs to be addressed.
We're currently 5th after the Eagles loss. Giants have a decent shot of moving up (NE must beat Jets) if they lose out.
Can't see Dallas at home losing to the Lions..so the finale will mean something to the Eagles.
The Rams need to win to keep their playoff spot, and the boids will probably need a win. So I see the Giants losing the next two. The Pats will be up at home in what could be Bill's finale. Besides after playing the Browns this Thursday with their ferocious defense the jets may be left with no QB given the state of their OL. Picking 4th would be great. The Bears should take a QB, Fields is not the answer, then you have the other QB, and Harrison. That would leave the rest of the board to us, and any team that covets a particular player should haveto pay us a king's ransom, or we take someone Schoen/Daboll really likes. That spot gives us a strategic advantage. Picking fifth would give me chills and thoughts of Cedric Jones.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 25, 2023, 11:55:06 AMWe got collectively better QB play from our QB2 and QB3 behind the same line than we did from our QB1. I personally find that very problematic. Moreover the QB1 simply cannot stay on the field. He routinely sustains very serious injuries. It has happened in four out of his five years as a pro. I find that very problematic as well.
Agree that play from #s2&3 has gotten better but to suggest that they've done so behind same line as #1 just isn't true. Since the second Dallas game (game 10) it's been the same crew left to right. That was #3 first start. Stalwarts such as Neal, Glowinski, Ezeudu, McKethan, Lemieux haven't seen the field, yet each saw significant time during the first half
We better hope with get the 4th pick. With the 4th pick we are almost guaranteed an elite pick whether it's 1 of the top 3 Qbs or Harrison. If we pick 5 then it is a completely different story.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 26, 2023, 05:46:19 PMWe better hope with get the 4th pick. With the 4th pick we are almost guaranteed an elite pick whether it's 1 of the top 3 Qbs or Harrison. If we pick 5 then it is a completely different story.
Dont forget Malik Nabers
Quote from: brownelvis54 on December 26, 2023, 06:25:19 PMDont forget Malik Nabers
I like Nabers a lot and think he's likely to be a real talent in the NFL. But he's definitely a cut below Harrison. To me Harrison is basically the same skillset but materially bigger. Nabers is more of a pure separation guy. Harrison gives you the separation and the contested catch ability.
I will be shocked at this point if they pick at 7.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on December 26, 2023, 06:25:19 PMDont forget Malik Nabers
And Keon Coleman . Possibly, Laiatu Latu and Jared Verse
Wide receiver is a luxury pick. Without a competent QB the pick is a waste.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on December 26, 2023, 06:25:19 PMDont forget Malik Nabers
Malik Nabers is not elite, no offense to him he's a 1st round pick just not top 5 pick.
I actually like Odunze better than Nabers but yeah the 3 Qbs, 1Wr, and 1T seem to be the top 5 right now. All the defensive prospects scare me.
If the Giants are in the top five and they like all three QBs they have to do what it takes to get one of them.
Quote from: katkavage on December 26, 2023, 08:14:37 PMIf the Giants are in the top five and they like all three QBs they have to do what it takes to get one of them.
1 - Chicago
2 - Arizona
3 - Washington
4 - New England
5 - NYG
If the top 5 remains the same at the end of the season, I think Arizona may be our only chance to move up.
I see Chicago taking Williams. Washington will have a new HC coming in and will want his own QB. New England is picking a QB.
Tennessee (#7) and Atlanta (#10) are in need of a QB as well and may offer ARZ, WAS, or NE enough to part with their pick.
Quote from: T200 on December 27, 2023, 08:13:16 AM1 - Chicago
2 - Arizona
3 - Washington
4 - New England
5 - NYG
If the top 5 remains the same at the end of the season, I think Arizona may be our only chance to move up.
I see Chicago taking Williams. Washington will have a new HC coming in and will want his own QB. New England is picking a QB.
Tennessee (#7) and Atlanta (#10) are in need of a QB as well and may offer ARZ, WAS, or NE enough to part with their pick.
Tim: Really? You think Chicago will take a QB? I pray that you are correct, unless the Giants want a QB and the guy taken by the Bears is that guy. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on December 27, 2023, 08:27:28 AMTim: Really? You think Chicago will take a QB? I pray that you are correct, unless the Giants want a QB and the guy taken by the Bears is that guy. Bob
Bob,
I don't think the Bears are sold on Fields. But he's young enough and still on his rookie deal that may appeal to some other team who isn't drafting high enough to grab one of this year's crop. The other component is does Chicago really want to use the #1 overall on MHJ instead of one of the top QBs available? I do think they'll pick Williams.
Quote from: katkavage on December 26, 2023, 07:05:20 PMWide receiver is a luxury pick. Without a competent QB the pick is a waste.
I don't disagree, but you have a huge number of people who think it's a waste to take a QB until your O line is fixed. And then you have people who think it's pointless to draft an O lineman until we have a better O line coach etc etc.
If we're not taking a QB, I'm fine with a BPA approach myself. We are subpar to terrible in literally every unit on this team. Being beholden to a specific position (other than if you're strategically going after a QB) when you suck on literally every level seems like a narrow approach to me.
Quote from: T200 on December 27, 2023, 08:35:27 AMBob,
I don't think the Bears are sold on Fields. But he's young enough and still on his rookie deal that may appeal to some other team who isn't drafting high enough to grab one of this year's crop. The other component is does Chicago really want to use the #1 overall on MHJ instead of one of the top QBs available? I do think they'll pick Williams.
Fields is making a solid case this year. They are over achieving as a team. The smart move for them is to trade out of one and stockpile this year and next. If Fields falters next year they will have the draft capital to get one next year.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 27, 2023, 08:43:05 AMI don't disagree, but you have a huge number of people who think it's a waste to take a QB until your O line is fixed. And then you have people who think it's pointless to draft an O lineman until we have a better O line coach etc etc.
If we're not taking a QB, I'm fine with a BPA approach myself. We are subpar to terrible in literally every unit on this team. Being beholden to a specific position (other than if you're strategically going after a QB) when you suck on literally every level seems like a narrow approach to me.
With the exception of QB always build from the inside out. Meaning build up your lines and then move to skill positions.
Quote from: katkavage on December 27, 2023, 10:06:00 AMWith the exception of QB always build from the inside out. Meaning build up your lines and then move to skill positions.
I fully agree in principle, however I don't want to take an OT or DT with a B grade over a WR with an A grade.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 27, 2023, 10:09:17 AMI fully agree in principle, however I don't want to take an OT or DT with a B grade over a WR with an A grade.
If that is the case, trade the pick for more this year and next.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 27, 2023, 10:09:17 AMI fully agree in principle, however I don't want to take an OT or DT with a B grade over a WR with an A grade.
Also, the draft is longer than one round. Going with a BPA WR in the first does not preclude the Giants from addressing OL later with one of their two second round picks (though, again, this would find them dumping significant high draft capital into the line...).
Quote from: katkavage on December 27, 2023, 10:04:21 AMFields is making a solid case this year. They are over achieving as a team. The smart move for them is to trade out of one and stockpile this year and next. If Fields falters next year they will have the draft capital to get one next year.
He has stepped it up, for sure. But the question still remains, who would they rather have?
Marvin Harrison can't be him unless he has enough time to run downfield. The Giants OL has not been remotely close to consistently blocking well enough to afford WRs enough time to get downfield. That is what we have to fix otherwise MH Jr will be WanDale 2.0 as an LOS catch only guy.
Quote from: T200 on December 27, 2023, 10:14:28 AMHe has stepped it up, for sure. But the question still remains, who would they rather have?
We will find out. I would stick with Fields. They have some young talent. A new
QB could actually slow progress.
Quote from: T200 on December 27, 2023, 08:13:16 AM1 - Chicago
2 - Arizona
3 - Washington
4 - New England
5 - NYG
If the top 5 remains the same at the end of the season, I think Arizona may be our only chance to move up.
I see Chicago taking Williams. Washington will have a new HC coming in and will want his own QB. New England is picking a QB.
Tennessee (#7) and Atlanta (#10) are in need of a QB as well and may offer ARZ, WAS, or NE enough to part with their pick.
I don't think The Patriots would part with their pick especially they are guaranteed to get one of the top 3 QBs
The Bears could get a haul for their number 1 pick since they probably will also have a top 10 pick. I am not sure that the Titans would trade up as they do have Malik Willis and Will Levis , they might but not so sure .
The Falcons could and it would probably cost them their first and second rounders this year , their first rounder next year plus their third rounder next year .
Quote from: katkavage on December 27, 2023, 10:17:34 AMWe will find out. I would stick with Fields. They have some young talent. A new
QB could actually slow progress.
True... a better QB in Williams could also propel the offense more than Fields has to date.
I think Fields and Daboll would be a very good combo.
Quote from: T200 on December 27, 2023, 10:23:04 AMTrue... a better QB in Williams could also propel the offense more than Fields has to date.
I think Fields and Daboll would be a very good combo.
It's all risky.
We need to hope for pick 4, we need new England to win.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 27, 2023, 11:15:46 AMWe need to hope for pick 4, we need new England to win.
They play Buffalo and the Jets, and I think they have a real shot against the latter. Possible Dallas has nothing to play for in Week 18 and Washington squeaks out a win? That's probably too hopeful.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on December 27, 2023, 12:15:53 PMThey play Buffalo and the Jets, and I think they have a real shot against the latter. Possible Dallas has nothing to play for in Week 18 and Washington squeaks out a win? That's probably too hopeful.
Yeah depends what Buffalo shows up, but I think if new England wins 1 of 2 and we lose out we get #4.
Quote from: Philosophers on December 27, 2023, 10:17:02 AMMarvin Harrison can't be him unless he has enough time to run downfield. The Giants OL has not been remotely close to consistently blocking well enough to afford WRs enough time to get downfield. That is what we have to fix otherwise MH Jr will be WanDale 2.0 as an LOS catch only guy.
We have 3 day two picks, including two in the second round. All three of those picks could feasibly be used on O line if they really wanted to, and you can expect to get solid players in that range. I don't know why so many here seem to think that if we don't use another top 10 pick on O line, it means we're not going to significantly address the O line.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 27, 2023, 12:35:20 PMWe have 3 day two picks, including two in the second round. All three of those picks could feasibly be used on O line if they really wanted to, and you can expect to get solid players in that range. I don't know why so many here seem to think that if we don't use another top 10 pick on O line, it means we're not going to significantly address the O line.
I am completely against drafting an olineman unless it is in the 5th round and beyond. I think 2 plug and play FA for the line is a lot better than drafting and hopefully waiting for someone to produce.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 27, 2023, 12:39:08 PMI am completely against drafting an olineman unless it is in the 5th round and beyond. I think 2 plug and play FA for the line is a lot better than drafting and hopefully waiting for someone to produce.
If we dont sign 2 FA starting OL, then we cant wait until the 5th round and hope we get lucky with a Trey Smith or Michael Onwenu.
Dave, not saying either WR or OL at 1 but if Giants think at say 7 an OT prospect is a better player than available wr prospect, I say take the OL. I am with you if a better WR is available we take the WR.
Quote from: Philosophers on December 27, 2023, 02:22:44 PMIf we dont sign 2 FA starting OL, then we cant wait until the 5th round and hope we get lucky with a Trey Smith or Michael Onwenu.
Dave, not saying either WR or OL at 1 but if Giants think at say 7 an OT prospect is a better player than available wr prospect, I say take the OL. I am with you if a better WR is available we take the WR.
If the Giants can't get their QB at 5 or better, 4, than they should think about trading the pick to get more picks including a first rounder for the next year.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 27, 2023, 12:34:55 PMYeah depends what Buffalo shows up, but I think if new England wins 1 of 2 and we lose out we get #4.
How does that work considering we won H2H match-up with the Pats?
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If we can't get the QB we like at wherever we are picking, the guy I would have a hard time passing on is Dallas Turner. In every Bama game I've watched his relentless pursuit off the edge reminds me somewhat of LT. He's all over the place! I'm looking forward to watching how he does against Michigan on New Year's Day
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on December 27, 2023, 08:10:32 PMHow does that work considering we won H2H match-up with the Pats?
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It has nothing to do with head to head just record and strength of schedule. We have the 6th hardest SOS giving us the edge on most. Only the Raven, Bengals, Bills, Raiders, and Commanders have harder schedules and we are tied with the Cardinals IN sos. So if we have the same record as NE then we get the pick before them assuming the beat one of the bills/Jets.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 27, 2023, 10:50:12 PMIt has nothing to do with head to head just record and strength of schedule. We have the 6th hardest SOS giving us the edge on most. Only the Raven, Bengals, Bills, Raiders, and Commanders have harder schedules and we are tied with the Cardinals IN sos. So if we have the same record as NE then we get the pick before them assuming the beat one of the bills/Jets.
I wonder what the next two weeks will do to our SOS though (compared to the teams around us). I haven't looked into that,.