Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 19, 2023, 08:14:12 AMWhy do you dismiss certain facts?

Why do you do the same thing?

Quote from: Trench on October 18, 2023, 06:57:57 PMYour point is?...

Idk what the point is, but it misses the point that this has never been a DJ vs TT thing.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on October 18, 2023, 05:39:38 PMTaylor has played in 86 games, with 11,086 yards and has 60 passing TDs and 19 Rushing TDs. Which averages out to be a 0.91 TDs a game

Jones has played in 59 games with 12,487 yards, 62 passing TDs and 13 Rushing TDS. This averages to be a TD every 1.27 TDs a game.

Granted Taylor has played a lot more games, but using the above figures, Jones, on his current career pace, would throw or run for 108 TDs over 86 games, which will broadly be 1.26 TDs a game.

So the question isn't about who is better, it's whether 0.36 TDs a game is worth the additional 35million and change that Jones earns. This 0.36 extra per game equates to 6.12 TDs a season.

Is it worth it?

Great work on this, thanks for sharing.

I will vote in the No column, but others may feel the extra third of a score is worth it, they are entitled to believe that.

Quote from: True Blue on October 18, 2023, 05:33:53 PMBetter yet, what did DJ average this year outside those 2 quarters against Arizona?

I did the Math

in 17 quarters outside of that second half in Arizona, the offense with Daniel Jones is averaging 1.64 points a quarter, which comes to 6.58 points a game

I did 17 QTRS, because I omitted the 4th quarter of the Miami game since he did not play it in full.

28 points scored in those quarters

28 divided by 17 -= 1.64


It isn't about DJ vs TT, but there is some math for those that may be curious since some want to keep making it TT vs DJ for some unknown reason.

Better yet, what did the offense with DJ average this year outside those 2 quarters against Arizona?

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2023, 05:20:24 PMI just finished listening to Papa and Banks.  They pointed out with Jones the team averaged 11 points per game.   That dropped to 9 with Tyrod

You're really starting to reach with these

2 more points? Whoa 🤯

5 games vs 1 c'mon, I'd be more interested in what their offenses each average over their career starts

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 18, 2023, 02:34:51 PMThe idea that a fifth year starting QB making $40mm a year needs to "learn from " a $5mm/yr journeyman veteran backup in the later stages of his career is mind-boggling.

Is anyone saying Jalen Hurts can benefit from leaning from Marcus Mariotta? Or that Brock Purdy would stand to benefit from learning from Sam Darnold?

Andy Dalton is going to turn Bryce Young into a stud

no team is going to do this

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2023, 01:07:47 PMI am not sure that AR was made of glass as much as he seems to play a very physical brand of football.  His size allowed him to be quite physical, but the downside is that even if you are pretty big, those hits have a way of extracting a toll.

When I say made of glass, I mean injury prone, as in a combination of previous injury history, coupled with the high likelihood of reinjury or new injury. He already missed a game or two prior to this, plus the injuries in college.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on October 18, 2023, 01:06:14 PMAgreed. It wasn't a question of Daniel or Tyrod. It was a question of Daniel or Tyrod and better players. Plus moving on from Daniel would've unburdened the franchise of the fairytale that Daniel Jones is a franchise QB, which has been holding the organization back for 5 years. We're still stuck in the Gettleman era and will be until his contract is off the books.

Couldn't agree more, $80++ Million, one less Gettleman mistake, and fewer checkdowns can go a very long way.

I agree with DB above, and also want to point out, that AR had injury risks/concerns going into the draft, he is made of glass, taking him at 4 was always gonna be a huge risk, I also feel the first comment is unfair given DJ himself is currently injured.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 18, 2023, 11:38:55 AMFor me the key thing here is that I don't think Taylor is better than Jones. It's more that they appear to be roughly similar in overall effectiveness. That statement holds true if you are just isolating Sunday night's game against what Jones has done under similar conditions this year, and it also holds true if you widen the lens and look at their whole careers (Taylor's passing stats are in fact a bit better than Jones' long term).

I don't think anyone is pounding the table that Jones is significantly inferior to Taylor. That is not the argument. The point is more that they are not dissimilar in overall effectiveness, and yet one is a career journeyman backup making relatively modest money, and the other is a very well-paid starter. Which if you're a Giants fan feels problematic.

That's the biggest thing that most are overlooking.

If that $40M went toward G and OL Depth and other areas, a Tyrod led team may actually be much more effective.

I don't think Tyrod is better than Jones, Jones is more physically gifted overall. Not sure who has the stronger arm but can't imagine it's very different.

But until Jones shows otherwise I do think TT does gives this team a better chance to win most weeks. He may not be better, but he doesn't have the mental issues some say DJ has, with him in, the offense was at least to attempt more downfield shots, avoid and/or prevent "as much" pressure, and in general getting the ball out easier. He also had more time to throw against a good pass rush.

Maybe DJs clock is damaged, maybe the games too fast for him or something else whatever the reason may be its holding him back until he shows me a reason to believe otherwise. But TTs clock was just fine and the offense was more functional in several areas. Not great, but better than most of the season however low that bar may be. He wasn't seeking the checkdown every single play

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2023, 08:24:22 AMSince @T200 and @Ed Vette are taking the one extreme, I am going offer up a counterpoint for balance

I find it interesting that the same people who hold Daniel Jones to an impossibly high standard dropped that bar to the ground for Tyrod Taylor.  If Jones had scored just 9 points, made a huge mistake that cost the team the game, and failed to score twice while snapping the ball from the 1-yard line, there would be thread after thread calling for him to be benched. 

Taylor didn't LOOK bad,

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2023, 08:24:22 AMSince @T200 and @Ed Vette are taking the one extreme, I am going offer up a counterpoint for balance

I find it interesting that the same people who hold Daniel Jones to an impossibly high standard dropped that bar to the ground for Tyrod Taylor.  If Jones had scored just 9 points, made a huge mistake that cost the team the game, and failed to score twice while snapping the ball from the 1-yard line, there would be thread after thread calling for him to be benched. 

Taylor didn't LOOK bad, but his RESULTS were no better than and arguably worse than Jones.  How many games will a team win scoring just 9 points especially when the defense gives the offense 2 turnovers?

but his RESULTS were no better than and arguably worse than Jones.  How many games will a team win scoring just 9 points especially when the defense gives the offense 2 turnovers?

The bar was not dropped, and some of this is twisting what has been discussed.

The offense functioned a bit better int he sense TT wasn't under as much duress and had time to get the ball our or downfield no one said production was there this week.

Point is it has been no better and no worse than anything Jones has done for the majority of the season.

Quote from: madbadger on October 17, 2023, 09:39:07 PMThat Taylor led offense led to zero touchdowns and two goal line failures. Tell me again how the offense looked better under Taylor than Jones.

Mentioned it in anaother thread, but the fact people suddenly care about TDs when DJ is not involved is absolutely ironic