Big Blue Huddle

When taking a cut, are they allowed to also cut the guaranteed money?  $14.7 of his $21.4 cap hit is guaranteed. 

I wouldn't even bother asking him to take a cut/re-structure.  I think cutting him is the only option.  Whether to take the cap hit now or designate a post-June 1st all depends on Schoen's plan.  If he is just looking to sign his guys and not make a splash, can probably do that and still take the cap hit on Golladay now.  If he is able to add a big $ piece whether trade or FA?  Go the post-June 1st route.  If they structure Jones and/or Barkley (assuming they agree on a deal) with guaranteed money as roster bonuses as opposed to signing bonus, then go the post-June 1st route for Golladay.

Quote from: Leek21 on January 23, 2023, 02:01:26 PMIf Jaylon Smith signs another cheap contract the Giants should keep him.  He was better than what he was paid.
Giants are still tight on money, I would not mind keeping Smith for a lower price tag.

Cheap, fine.  But he still can't be a starter.  Rotate him in, fine.  Leadership, fine.  He just doesn't have the tools to be a starter even at the league minimum.

Not sure what any of the named players are going to get in FA. Going the FA route to replace players is a dangerous game.  #1, if it is someone you expect to be penciled in as a starter from the get-go, then they are likely going to be overpaid coming off the open market.  #2, never know what kind of desire (or lack thereof) that player has once they get their payday. 

Issue with Williams he has $20MM in guaranteed money on the books next year.  The non-guaranteed is $12MM.  Taking a cut down to $5-6MM from $12MM with the $20MM in guaranteed is still too much cap space for him.

Quote from: squibber on January 23, 2023, 12:35:32 PMHow much did Leonard contribute to the poor run defense?

I would have to watch the game again, but I feel like the awful run defense was more on the LB's saturday.  Not saying that as gospel, just what I felt watching in real time.

Quote from: kartanoman on January 22, 2023, 06:46:49 PMI've had high ankle sprains before and, as long as they can tape and immobilize it, and he can plant on it, he should be able to play through it.

Can the Bengals scheme on defense to limit his effectiveness? That will be key to the game.

Peace!

Can you explain exactly what a high-ankle sprain is?  I sprained my ankle in HS.  Coach taped it up at half-time, and I played but was hobbling.  Following week, I iced/heated and he taped me up again.  Was ineffective and eventually he subbed me out.  Went to physical therapy for a week for an Ultrasound regiment and I was good to go the following week.  I did not go to the doc or get an x-ray.  Assuming, I did not have a high ankle spran.  This was in 1992, but from what I remember a tremendous amount of bruising and swelling around the bone sticking out of the ankle and lots of bruising on top of the foot.

Not sure what the consensus on here has been, but it seems everyone thinks Golladay is as good as gone.  Any chance he also cuts Williams? Yes, he was good, but is he worth $32MM in cap space?  Huge cap hit if he is cut ($20MM), but can they replace him with someone for cheaper than $12MM?

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 23, 2023, 11:18:18 AMI listened to a podcast a month or so ago that made a lot of sense. Basically, teams with a filthy rich owner or a team that makes tons of money compared to other teams, don't use a lot of common sense when it comes to building a team and frugality is not in their makeup. They have the money, so they jump in with both feet on every deal that appears good. It's worked for the Yankees, Dodgers, and now the Mets. However, teams from smaller venues with a less than billionaire owners tend to see things differently. They discussed the Pittsburg Steelers, Buffalo Bills, and the Cleveland, Milwaukee, Minnesota baseball teams. Granted, the NFL has a hard cap unlike other sports that merely punish you monetarily for going over, but it's still all about the mindset...IMHO

Their conclusion: small market teams without a Scrooge McDuck owner count every penny and evaluate, and re-evaluate players to the nth degree. They can't afford to make a single mistake so they work extra hard to field a competitive team while working within a budget that isn't necessarily friendly

Schoen hails from the small city Buffalo team that has to compete with the likes of New England, NYC, LA, Dallas, etc. We got a taste of how he works in his first year with the Giants. Unlike Gettleman, Schoen has that small city, small budget mindset and this season we watched him put together a budget friendly rag-tag team that was actually competitive. I believe he is stuck in that mindset...the polar opposite of Jerry Jones. Because of it, I think Schoen will do more due diligence than most GMs. He won't be shopping top shelf or eyeballing the shiny toys or super-studs that want a Brinks truck backed up to their house to load their personal bank vault

I believe we are in good hands, and I believe Schoen will put in more time and effort than his counterparts in evaluating what we have and what is available. I suspect he sees the draft as the best way to build and will have 10-page dossiers on more than 300 players. Likewise, I hope he keeps that small-budget, hard work mindset that he was groomed on in Buffalo.

Hopefully, I'm not being too over-confident in our new staff. But I admit, the new staff is the most exciting thing for me in a long time with this team

I hear what you are saying when it comes to personality of the owner.  However, this is a cap league.  Something with which the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets do not deal.  Mara and Tisch could be willing to spend like Steve Cohen, but unless he is doing stuff under the table, they are simply not allowed to do so.  Every team gets a pizza and is told to cut it up however they want.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 23, 2023, 11:03:25 AMIf Schoen really believes in Daboll/Kafka as QB whisperers, the cold-blooded thing would be to let Jones go FA.  I love Jones the player, but I don't love the idea of paying him 35-40 million while attempting to build a roster that can compete with the big boys.  Build out a roster that can compete across the board with teams like Philly and San Fran.  If there's no one reachable in the draft don't be afraid to wait a year to draft your QB prospect.

The other cold-blooded move is to let Barkley go FA.  He's going to be looking for 12-14 million for multiple years.  I think they should be able to substantially replace his production via a committee, and at a fraction of the cost.  And by the time they are done building out the roster he will be on the decline, if not injured again.  It is still a passing league, and the Giants were more of a running team out of necessity rather than choice. 

We saw very clearly that the rosters of the top teams are better than the Giants in almost every area.  You can't fix that while you are paying your QB 35-40 million and your running back 12-14 million.  To me, THAT is the cold blooded view of things.

Agreed, but I wouldn't want him to be cold-blooded just for the sake of being cold-blooded. 

Looking at this list, there are some terrible contracts on here.  https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback

Rodgers at this point is terribly overpaid.  I read something where he said whether he comes back or not will depend on the team's plans.  He would be doing them a huge favor if he retired.  Wilson, Murray, Carr, Watson?  Not worth anywhere near the % of the cap they are occupying for their teams.  Part of me wants Schoen to simply say, "You are worth $20MM per and just because those other teams are run by idiots who overpay their QB, it doesn't mean I have to be just as dumb."  BUT, he needs a qb or they will again take steps backwards.  Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and Garoppolo are UFA and likely could be had for cheaper.  Do we want Jones at ~$30MM per or one of those guys for ~$15MM per?  Would that extra $15MM in cap space allow Schoen to improve other aspects of the roster to make up for what you lose in QB play?

Quote from: ViewFromSection129 on January 22, 2023, 12:00:32 AMAnother night where he wasn't utilized a lot. I know we were down big and that limited things, but I start to wonder if the giants are not planning on signing him long term.

I wouldn't read too much into it.  It was 1 game.  I am sure the plan was to use him, but when they were down 14-0, then 21-0 the in-game strategy changes.  At that point, Daboll and Kafka cannot be worried about what will happen with his negotiations in the off-season.

This season was a success, absolutely.  Winning the Super Bowl is the ultimate success and goal, but you can't say 31 teams had unsuccessful seasons and 1 was successful.  Each team needs to be looked at individually.  If a student struggles to pass math, then gets an 80 on a test, that is successful.  If a student in the same class who consistently gets high 90s gets the same 80 on the same test, that is unsuccessful.  Giants coming into this year were the student who not only struggled to pass, but were more often than not not even close when put in context of the last 10 years.  C*wb*ys have a different criteria. They won the division last year.  Have won the division a few times the past 10 years.  Have been in or close to the play-offs almost every year.  So yeah, I could see them thinking the year was a failure.  Not that they are the kid getting high 90s, but you could say they are the high 80s/low 90s kid the past few years.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 23, 2023, 09:53:04 AMOh I don't know...low-balling DJ and/or Dex. Letting Barkley hit the market. Cutting good, but not excellent players, etc. I think there will be gasps by fans and players alike with some of the decisions on the horizon

I think the gist of the article is more about "mindset" and that Schoen can't be nostalgic or sentimental and must cut like a knife while continuing to rebuild, without any emotions getting in his way...sorta the Jack Welch of football GMs...lol

As much as I like Jones and have believed this prior years were not his fault, I am leerie of giving him $30M+ for multiple seasons.  I know they have capspace now, but need to leave some meat on the bone to try to fill the roster. On the other hand, if he hit the open market some idiot GM will open the vault for him. Barkley is another one with whom he needs to be careful.  Franchise him and he could be another Toney and need to sit out because his left pinkie toe is a little sore.  But, extend him 3-4 years and that could might them in the ass.  Because of how I feel about RBs in general, I would rather lowball him and possibly let him leave as I think they can replace him. 

As far as cutting good but not great players.  All depends on the $.  You are not going to be able to replace everyone with great players.  Have to look at the value.  Good player with a cap hit of a mediocre player?  Keep him.  Good player with the cap hit of a great player?  Think about cutting depending on the dead money situation.

Dexter Lawrence?  Didn't they already pick up his option?  He should be signed for next year.

I believe 25th as the Dolphins have forfeited their pick.

I am happy with the season.  I have been MIA from here because early in the season things at work were a bit hectic and I didn't have time.  By the time things settled down, they were 4-1/5-1.  I thought, "watch, I will sing their praised and it will fall apart."  When they were winning early, I couldn't help but think of the 2004 season.  I know, different story.  Sacrificed the season to break-in Eli.  Honestly, as I was watching Saturday night, I was not even mad.  Just shook my head and thought, "they are just better."  Good season, now keep building.

I see the top needs as LB, IOL, LB, WR, LB.  Was taking with a friend yesterday about all the draft experts beliefs.  "Don't take LBs early as you can find good LBs later in the draft".  Is a popular piece of rhetoric I often hear.  Well, why haven't the Giants been able to do so?  The last good LB they drafted was Jessie Armstead in 1993.  Sorry, not calling guys like Goff, and Griessen "good".  Same with iOL. Anyone who wants to downplay their importance should watch the Eagles OL work.

I run a pool like this at work.  5-for-5, have to win them all.  Pushes lose and I don't use 1/2-points (always round up). If nobody wins, money carries over.