Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: jimv on May 07, 2021, 08:57:32 PM

If you want to read up on the Giants, Bears, Redskins, get "The League," a book I've recommended several times.  It'll tell you all you want to know.

Yes, I read it on your recommendation, great book. I want to one day post here how those teams and the Cards, Steelers, Eagles, Lions & Packers started similar to the above teams to round out this thread.

This is easy, The Crunch Bunch! Van Pelt, Kelley, Carson and LT. Van Pelt was their best player of the 70's, LT, their best player of the 80's and Carson, who was never the best linebacker on any Giants team, but good enough for the HOF. Kelley wasn't too shabby either.

Quote from: NapoleonBlownapart on May 03, 2021, 11:18:16 PM
Jim - thank you for this very cool thread.  I will have to dig out my copy of David harries "the rise and decline of the NFL" from 1986.  He has a chapter titled "NFL expansion" that is very interesting. briefly, in the late 1960's Memphis TN and its Liberty Bowl stadium was considered the frontrunner for an NFL team, others lagging well behind included Portland Ore, Seattle WA, Tampa Bay FL, Jacksonville FL, Charlotte NC, Birmingham AL & San Antonio TX.  The NFL spent millions of bucks in studies and by the mid 70's the front runners were the eventual 27 & 28 teams, Tampa Bay & Seattle.  Amazing they never went back to Memphis for an expansion team albeit a 1 year home for the Oilers in 1997.

Although I lived thru the WFL, I haven't read up on if that league influenced the 1976 expansion to Seattle and Tampa yet. Memphis had one of the best teams in the WFL and I believe it was considered. I'd love for someone to add the early history of Seattle and Tampa to this thread and the 1995 expansion. I might add how the oldest teams entered one day. (Giants, Bears, Redskins, etc) Glad you enjoyed.

Quote from: jimv on May 11, 2020, 06:46:05 PM
GREAT WORK, Giant Jim!!!!!!  You've been reading a lot of the books that I've read.

One interesting point about the Browns coming into the NFL in 1950 was their face-to-face matchups with the Giants.  The Browns were supposed tyo overpower the NFL.  But, when they first faced the Giants, our Giants not only beat them, but shut them out, 6 - 0!!!  The Giants also won the second game of the season but the Browns prevailed in the Playoffs.  That started one of GREAT rivalries in NFL history.  I can still remember when it ended with the Browns moving into the AFC.

Yes, that first season, the Giants were the only team to beat the Browns and did it twice, but the Browns beat the Giants in the playoff game. It became a big rivalry through the '63 season when the Giants crashed. The Browns remained a top team into the 70's and were winning again by 1980. I don't think they ever had extended droughts like the Giants have had. Even after they moved to Baltimore, they were consistent winners.

1970- Merger was complete. 4 Super Bowls were played, the NFL's Packers won the first 2 and the AFL's Jets and Chiefs winning the 3rd & 4th. One league, the NFL, two 13 team conferences, the NFC and the AFC. All former AFL teams would make up the AFC with the Colts, Browns & Steelers joining them.

New Orleans Saints & Cincinnati Bengals- New Orleans and Cincinnati were the favorites to land the 16th NFL team. NFL owners weren't happy Paul Brown was fired by the Brown's Art Model and wanted him back in the league. He wanted full control of the team that hired him and the Falcons & Dolphins were unwilling to give it to him. He had a deal to buy the Philadelphia Eagles but that fell through. He looked into buying the Denver Broncos, but didn't want the AFL. He was in the AAFC when it failed. He felt  Cincinnati would be a good place for a team and put together a group and secured a promise for a stadium. Cincinnati, with Paul Brown, was a big favorite to be that 16th NFL team.

During this time, on again, off again secret merger talks between the NFL & AFL started heating up and an agreement to merge, have a common draft, play a championship game at the end of the season and play as one league starting 1970 was made. The leagues needed an antitrust exemption to finalize the deal and needed help from Congress to get it approved. Pete Rozelle had to promise a team to New Orleans to get the votes needed by a Louisiana senator and congressman. The New Orleans Saints started playing in the NFL in 1967.

There was very little talk between the Saints and Paul Brown to coach. By this time, Brown didn't want to leave Ohio. Brown decided to pursue  the opening for the 10th team in the AFL since it would now be part of the NFL anyway. In May, 1967, Paul Brown was awarded that 10th team and the Bengals started playing in the 1968 season.

Miami Dolphins-After losing out to the NFL for an expansion team in Atlanta, the AFL quickly sold the expansion rights to a group headed by Joe Robbie and Danny Thomas to play in Miami. The Dolphins started playing in the 1966 season.

Atlanta Falcons- Atlanta had a brand new stadium and tried to lure the Chargers to move there. The Texans and Broncos also considered moving  to Atlanta. After the AFL signed its contract with NBC, it announced it  would expand by 2 teams. Atlanta was the first choice. The NFL immediately followed and announced it would also expand by 2 teams. Perspective owners had an agreement with Atlanta Stadium to field an AFL team for the 1966 season. When the NFL found out about the meeting, Pete Rozelle raced down to Atlanta and met with officials the next day. Atlanta chose the NFL and the Falcons began playing in 1967.

Minnesota Vikings- 1961-Was to be an original AFL team. The first AFL draft was held in Minneapolis at the time Vikings owner Max Winter was close to finalizing the NFL's offer to join. After losing the Vikings, the AFL awarded a team to play in Oakland. The Raiders were given the Vikings draft picks, but by the time they could organize, most picks had already signed with NFL teams.

Dallas Cowboys-1960- The NFL decided to expand and put a team in Dallas to stop the AFL. They made offers to Lamar Hunt to join their league as part owner of the Dallas Rangers (Cowboys).  Hunt refused, he organized the others to invest money to start the league and their teams and felt allegiance to them. To hurt Hunt and the AFL, the NFL placed an expansion team in Dallas. Feeling the NFL would do whatever it had could to keep the Cowboys in Dallas to hurt his team and league, Hunt eventually moved his team to Kansas City and renamed them the Chiefs. Bud Adams was also approached and refused.

Chicago Cardinals-Just for historical perspective. Although the Cardinals are one of the very oldest NFL teams, they were at the center of the founding of the AFL. The Bidwell's wanted to move to St Louis as Chicago wasn't supporting them and they were having financial problems. They couldn't afford the relocation fee the NFL wanted, so they tried to sell 49% of the team. This was unacceptable to Hunt, Adams, Howsam and Winter and the main reason their deals fell through. Upon learning about the new league being formed, the NFL made it easier for the Cardinals to move to St Louis to take away a potential market for the AFL.

The forth American Football league-(The most well known AFL)  Several prospective owners were looking to buy an existing or expansion NFL franchise in the late 1950's. The league, led by the head of the expansion committee, George Halas, made it known there would be no expansion. As his failed negotiations to buy the Chicago Cardinals were wrapping up, Lamar Hunt learned that Bud Adams, Bob Howsam and Max Winter also tried to buy into the NFL and suffered the same fate. He contacted those 3  about starting a new league. Hunt found enough others willing to buy into his new league to put teams in 8 cities, including Los Angles and New York. Organized in 1959, Boston, NY, Buffalo, Houston, Denver, Minneapolis, Dallas and LA would start playing in 1960.

As the first AFL player draft was going down, Max Winter, owner of the Minneapolis team accepted the NFL's offer to join their league. Lamar Hunt and Bud Adams turned down similar offers as the other 5 had already invested heavily in the new league and it would've fell apart on them. Oakland replaced Minneapolis.

This American Football League is responsible for the league expanding from 12 teams in 1959 to 26 teams in 1970, more than double.

Baltimore Colts- In 1950, the AAFC's Baltimore Colts joined the NFL with the 49er's and Cleveland Browns. After 1 season (1950), the Colts were dissolved due to financial loses. The Colts struggled with financial problems while in the AAFC but its owners wouldn't approve the merger if their team wasn't included. The Buffalo team would've been a better choice.  The league played the 1950 season with 13 teams.  They played the '51 season with 12 teams, but by the end of that season, the NFL bought the NY Yanks due to heavy loses to the owners. (The Boston Yanks, then NY Bulldogs/NY Yanks NFL team started in 1945).  A Texas group bought an expansion team and the Yanks roster, equipment, etc. and named them the Dallas Texans. The new owners bailed before the end of the 1952 season. Future Dallas Cowboy owner, Clint Murchison Jr tried to buy the Texans, but with a lawsuit against the NFL by the City of Baltimore, the NFL told them they could have the Texans if they could sell 15,000 season tickets. After they did, they were awarded the team, the first time a city was awarded a team without an owner. Carroll Rosenbloom was recruited and bought the team.

Cleveland Browns and San Francisco 49er's- The Browns were by far the best team in the AAFC, winning their championship all 4 seasons of its existence. The 49er's were consistent winners, coming in 2nd place in the AAFC west division every year. The Browns entered the NFL as a powerhouse, playing in the championship game each of their first 6 seasons, winning 3 and continued to be a top team right through the 1960's. The 49er's struggled a bit but held their own upon joining the league.

Other Leagues-The third American Football League was created in 1940, but ceased operations in 1942 due to WWII and never restarted.  In and around 1944, 3 new leagues were formed. The Trans-America Football League (TAFL) and the United States Football League (USFL) organized, but never signed any players or played any games. The All-America Football Conference (AAFC) was also formed around 1944 with plans to start playing in 1945. The AAFC later decided to wait until 1946 to start play as potential players were still not back from the war.

From the beginning, the AAFC tried to force a merger with the NFL or have a championship game against their top team. They even tried to negotiate a common draft, but the NFL first wouldn't talk to them, then refused when negotiates started. In the end, 3 teams joined the NFL and the rest folded. Owners of the Buffalo and Los Angeles team's were allowed to buy into existing NFL teams and the players were divided among the NFL teams.