Big Blue Huddle

Wordle 995 4/6

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Quote from: kartanoman on March 09, 2024, 04:51:36 PMWe beat this subject over and over, insert a Giant entity, today it is Schoen, tomorrow it could be the guy serving the medium Pepsis, I don't know, but laying failure on one person or another just doesn't seem right when we're looking to identify the "right" problem and then go and solve it and verify it has correctly been solved. This ongoing issue with the offensive line appears to have both individual direct causes as well as collective systematic issues.

If I'm off my rocker, then please call me out and correct me, but it all starts with a head coach who hires an offensive coordinator and other offensive position coaches, to include the offensive line coach, to implement an offensive strategy (or something to that objective). There is a master plan, tailored for each game they play, which is broken down to the lowest order unit team (e.g. offensive line). Let's consider the O-Line. In itself, it is an integrated group of five men working together as a cohesive unit during execution for every offensive play. Let's focus on that.

What do you need to have a cohesive offensive line work in tandem as one integrated unit? Feel free to jump in if I miss something. 1. Physical qualifications, 2. Playbook competency, 3. Sufficient on the job training/practice, to include working with your quarterback(s) 4. Sufficient study on your opponents, 5. Effective coaching to continually improve the unit by individual and collectively. 6. Intangibles.

If the Giants are NOT drafting or signing NFL talent that will improve their team, then that falls on the scouting and GM and possibly the head coach depending how much input he has in the process. They have to not only identify talent, but the right talent that will benefit what the head coach and the coordinators are trying to accomplish.

Based on what happened last season, a change in the offensive line coach was needed and not many would argue with that. That may be one of the direct causes for the lost season and we'll find out in September. On the other hand, fixing the O-Line will help, but not solve, the lack of talent on the rest of the offense. It's going to be different in a dramatic way if #26 signs elsewhere.

Don't be surprised if the Giants bolster both lines via free agency which opens the draft up to plenty of other options.

If the Giants could win Super Bowls with David Diehl, Rich Seubert (post-compound leg fracture), and even old Suburbanites Billy Ard and Chris Godfrey, with the right Offensive Line Coach they'll be able to find that diamond in the rough in the 5th or 6th round. But I think having the right head coach, more so than any one person, in the final analysis, will be the catalyst to make that happen, not Schoen.

Peace!

So... long story short, it's more than one thing.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on March 09, 2024, 03:07:34 PMTrue, seems like a lot longer than that

Dog years.

He's not a Guard. Too tall and slow off the snap. If the Giants draft a Tackle in the draft, I would have him practice and backup Thomas.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 09, 2024, 01:30:04 PMI can't kill Schoen too much for McKeethan as he was a fifth rounder, plus he got severely hurt as a rookie, stunting his development early in his career. The Ezeudu pick however was legit awful. Not just because of the end result, but the fact that he was billed as a developmental guy the day after we drafted him had me scratching my head. When you take a guard in the early third round (ie a non-premium position), you're expecting to get someone who can be a serviceable starter as a rookie, if not better than serviceable. Ezeudu couldn't be further than that. He was a reach, and just not a good pick at all. I have no idea what Schoen was doing there, but that pick is definitely a strike against him.

When he was drafted we had folks here saying he would be starting before the end of the season. Nobody knows how these players will work out at the pro level. That's why I believe paying a premium for a proven Guard is a good investment. I'm a little concerned that bringing in a new O-line coach would drop the need to fix this Line in the list of priorities. Although it is disappointing to see players like Feliciano, Zeitler, and Hernandez have success elsewhere. I do hope to see improvement in JMS at Center because he's not a Guard and neither is Neal. While we're on the subject of O-lines. 

I remember when many folks here were ready to give the farm away for Wilson a few years ago and when I said he was in decline, I was poo poo'ed.

Like I said, Vet minimum or a Tyrod contract for one year and have him as a qualified backup. He should even be able to beat out DJ. Unfortunately his narcissistic ways preclude him from being a positive influence on this team searching for an identity.

He's DJ without legs.

Simmons didn't show much last season. I don't know if he's a starter or a situational player.

Thibs had the sacks but was the bottom ten in pressures. He's also not the run stopper on the edge I would expect from such high a pick. He has great games and he disappears for games. The excuse that he had to drop in zone coverage a few times a game is weak.

Ojulari was a "steal" because of his injury and was expected to be so much more than he became. He flashed and has become a never has been.

Both those players should have benefited from the double team need and pressure exerted by Dexter Lawrence.

The expectation is that our new DC is going to rely on Pressure from the front and that means that the Giants can't be weak up front.

It took almost two years for the players to become competent in what Wink was building. He adapted and covered up a lot of deficiencies in talent. Rich posted an excellent video on today's modern multiple Defenses, where it employs anything from Cover Zero to Cover 7 and it completely flew under the radar here.

Losing Adoree and McKinney and Leo leaves this Defense woefully devoid of talent but all I read is how all will be fine. I got news for you guys who think bringing back Ward and Holmes type players and concentrating on building the Offense will solidify this Team.

No argument about bashing Gettleman but let's call a spade a spade. After two years, is this team any more talented than when Schoen took over? All the hype about how he had free rein, only to build piecemeal.

The DJ contract was a killer for a team in need of a rebuild. Mediocre free agents with the exception of Okereke and a lack of home runs in the draft leaves us with a hope and a prayer.

So to answer the OP. It's a lot more than OJ. And thats just the Defense.

What were his PFF metrics?

From my perspective, the Giants won't bring in a Diva. However, the reason to bring in a Veteran who has had success in the past would be to compete with Jones as this year's starter and then either draft a second round QB who sits a year or draft one next season.

A far cry from the four Aces.

Get another opinion and do some research as to the best in the field. In the meantime, if you do a lot of sitting and you keep your wallet in your back pocket, consider moving it to the front pocket.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 09, 2024, 08:39:06 AMDon't you folks know it's all the fickle fans fault? Come on now... no QB could survive with perennial Offensive Line woes that struggle in pass protection. The pressure was insurmountable. Furthermore, not having a legitimate number one Receiver and bringing in a slew of Slot Receivers and a gimpy and expensive Tight End tying up precious Cap Space was a detriment in signing competent FA's to fortify that line or to get that Elite Receiver.

Now Mara reads the Fan Base's uneducated conclusions and will have another overreaction by forcing Schoen to Draft the next Eli Clone. Of course that QB will fail too as no QB, not even Mahomes or Josh Allen can overcome such adverse playing conditions.

Almost forgot...
    

Don't you folks know it's all the fickle fans fault? Come on now... no QB could survive with perennial Offensive Line woes that struggle in pass protection. The pressure was insurmountable. Furthermore, not having a legitimate number one Receiver and bringing in a slew of Slot Receivers and a gimpy and expensive Tight End tying up precious Cap Space was a detriment in signing competent FA's to fortify that line or to get that Elite Receiver.

Now Mara reads the Fan Base's uneducated conclusions and will have another overreaction by forcing Schoen to Draft the next Eli Clone. Of course that QB will fail too as no QB, not even Mahomes or Josh Allen can overcome such adverse playing conditions.

Connections
Puzzle #272
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