Big Blue Huddle

A good article

https://theringer.com/watching-football-nfl-scout-guide-4182363cb930#.9tzj39uqp

Per Raanan

Prospects he is most likely checking out are

LB  ZACH CUNNINGHAM

and

OT WILL HOLDEN

With all the talk of offensive linemen, I thought this article would be of interest.

http://grantland.com/features/guard-tackle-interior-offensive-linemen-nfl/


Note:  I first posted the link on the Justin Pugh thread

He has the Giants going:

23. New York Giants

Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin

With Eli Manning turning 36, don't be surprised if the Giants draft a QB at some point in this draft. But that's more likely to come in the middle rounds. Ramczyk is dealing with a hip injury, so the medical recheck in April will factor into where he's selected. But if everything comes up good, Ramczyk has the length and mirroring ability to finally answer the Giants' problems at left tackle.


http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/insider/story/_/id/18907045/todd-mcshay-2017-nfl-mock-draft-30

I think they tend to be more accurate (in terms of roughly where players are taken).  Anyway what I have noticed is that players that seemed out of reach prior to the draft often seem to be mocked as available on 23.  Depending on the draft one of these three players are being projected as being available at 23

TE David Njoku
OT Garett Bolles
OT Ryan Ramczyk

This pick will upset the draft purest who will argue the Giants reached in the draft to take him ala Justin Pugh.   They will say he is too short to play tackle at 6' 3 7/8"   they will say a tackle needs to be at least 6' 5"   They will ignore his snake like 35" arms or his great footwork and generally good form and punch.  They will say Temple is low-level competition

Those defending him will point to the fact that he plays offensive line the way it's supposed to be played so he will be on the field sooner rather than later.  They will say he is very versatile being able to play 4 out of 5 of the offensive line position.   They will point to scouts saying he is the closest thing to a sure thing in the draft offensive line class with no serious dings. 

I will point to what Greg Gabriel (former Giants and Bears scout and head of Bears scouting and my teacher) said about him in his pre-Combine draft guide (Dawkins did very well in the combine and will only push his draft stock higher)

Strong Points:  Good size and strength.  Plays with a nasty streak and likes to be physical.  Has some snap in his hips and on contact.  Able to get movement with run blocks.  Shows he can get to the second level. Gas a strong punch is pass protection.  Has good lateral agility, can mirror opponent and anchor.

Weak Points:  Can get lazy with his technique and make some mental mistakes (a number of false starts against Penn State).  Will drop his hands at times.  Has good lateral agility but doesn't always play with it.

The way we see it:  Dawkins has the talent to become a winning left tackle in the NFL.  Has some mental and technique errors but all are correctable with coaching and alertness.  He is a big strong guy with good athleticism, strength and power.  Has a lot of upside, just has to get rid of the mental mistakes and play to his ability.  Is a classic example of a young man who needs to land with the right coaching staff.  How he played at the Senior Bowl (note:  he played well and was praised) and how he interviews will be important.  A solid second-round pick if everything checks out. 


Now I scouted him and I see a guy with quick enough feet and ability to play LT.   I can see some saying he is second round talent, but I don't see him lasting to the Giants pick in the second round.  Heck, I doubt in this O-line starved league he makes it out of round one.    I see him as the one offensive tackle without a question mark or issue as the other top OTs all seem to have. 

The Giants take him in round one and put him in right away at either LT, RT or RG.  A starter from day one and a guy that instantly upgrades the Giants offensive line.  Some will be bitter and say over drafted but this will fill a HUGE need for the Giants and go a long way toward fixing the Giants broken offense.   

Besides, the only OTs I see on par with Dawkins are Ramczyk and Bolles and I see both of them gone when the Giants draft 23 an the Giants need a solid OT prospect who can start this season and Dawkins is the only other starter as a rookie OT I see in this draft class.

Seeing how this appears to be the way the Giants intend to "fix" their offensive line issues:

QuoteMost of the talk during the first day of combine weigh-ins has centered on the offensive line. In speaking with people, it seems the majority of teams have Cam Robinson, Garett Bolles, Dan Feeney and Dorian Johnson ranked on boards as four of the top five offensive linemen, regardless of position.

After that there

These measurables will only increase his value.  I know he is on the fan's wishlist but I can't see him lasting until 23

David Njoku - TE - Player
Miami (FL) TE David Njoku measured 6-foot-4, 246 at the Combine weigh-in.
Perhaps most notably, Njoku checked in with a freakish 82 1/2-inch wingspan. Giants DE Jason Pierre-Paul's 81-inch wingspan is considered legendary, but Njoku's is longer despite being shorter and svelter than JPP. Njoku's wingspan is only two inches shorter than LeBron James'. Njoku also has big, 10-inch hands. Njoku is a dynamic pass catcher and underrated blocker on college tape. He's neck and neck with O.J. Howard as this year's top tight end prospect.
Source: Charles Robinson on Twitter Mar 2 - 11:32 AM

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/12186/david-njoku

Seems the Senior Bowl screwed up the arm measurements of the offensive line prospects

http://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/nfl-scouting-combine-2017-player-measurement-tracker/

A pretty good article

http://football.realgm.com/analysis/2937/10-Things-Im-Watching-At-The-2017-NFL-Scouting-Combine

Fun quiz with video explanations of what each term means

http://www.nfl.com/scoutsglossary

This topic has been moved to NFL Draft, NY Giants style.

http://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=37932.0

NFL Network's Charley Casserly discusses the interview process for college football players participating in the combine.

http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/What-does-an-interview-look-like-at-the-Combine/30e7c5c2-dd52-41ef-ab81-aba569b2989e

From a former NFL scout

Daniel Jeremiah  @MoveTheSticks
9h
This draft is so deep. I have about 70 guys worthy of a top 50 spot. The 2nd/3rd round is going to produce a lot of future pro bowlers.

This is a project I have been working on.  It's taking longer than I expected so I will release it in parts.  Here is part one

Fair disclaimer-  I have not scouted all of these players (I do go to the tape when I get conflicting reports) but I am using my knowledge learned in the scouting class to better understand the reports I read.   For this early breakdown, I am going with NFL.com (which overall does a pretty good job) and I am supplementing my reports with info from Walter Football, Rotoworld, Ourlads and CBS Sports.

So here is a breakdown of the NFL offensive linemen (grades are from NFL.com, see bottom for grade breakdown)

Ramczyk, Ryan   T   6'6"   314   Wisconsin      GR:   6.2  -  Greg G taught me that the number one cause of a draft bust in a lack of passion for the game.  Coming out of college he turned down a scholarship at Pitt to attend local community type colleges.  That is a real issue to consider with him and one that only interviews will answer.   The other big issue with him is he had surgery for "hip impingement in the beginning of January that has a 4 month recovery time span.   On top of that, while he worked his way up from division 3 ball, he only has one year with Wisconsin.   That said reports say he is athletic and he has good technique (which in my mind is important).   He will never be an overwhelming beast (hence the relatively low score for the highest rated O-linemen).  Still, they report he could be NFL ready and he could play LT.   If he is a ready to go NFL player and if his passion for the game checks out and if he is medically cleared there are good odds he will be gone by the time the Giants draft at 23.  Age wise he is either 22 or 23 having been born in 94.   If the Giants fail to upgrade at tackle I think it would be hard for Jerry Reese to pass on Ryan if he is still on the board.


Robinson, Cam       OT   6'6"   326   Alabama      GR:   6.1 Okay I said I wasn't going to review tape, but I had to on him.   I was getting conflicting scouting reports but I also heard comparisons to Ereck Flowers.   Well, I reviewed some tape on him and it was Deja Vue all over again.   I saw an athletic man mountain with poor technique and marginal footwork get by on power alone.   He is even around the same age as Flowers.   The only difference is it seems many scouts are projecting Cam to guard while others still hold out hope he could be an LT.  So anyone game for Flowers 2.0?


Lamp, Forrest   OG   6'4"   305   Western Kentucky   GR   6.1 -  Lamp had an impressive Senior Bowl week that created quite a bit of buzz.   Now he has played and played well, LT for Western Kentucky.  He even acquitted himself well when facing the better talent WK occasionally faced.    The one thing that really stands out about Lamp is his freakishly short arms.   There was much to do about Justin Pugh and his 32" arms being too short to play tackle.   Well, Lamp measured in at the Senior Bowl with 31 1/8" arms.   Reports also say it appears he has maxed out his frame so you are not going to see much more than that 305 weight.   So really it would seem the best position for Lamp would be Center.     There 305 is a fine weight and those T-Rex like arms shouldn't be an issue.   He is a bit light to play guard (and if he did it would most likely be LG rather than the run blocking RG).    So I see Lamp's best fit being a team looking for a center who can do some spot duty at guard.


Bolles, Garett   OT   6'5"   300   Utah      GR   6.1 -  The feel-good story of the draft.   Mother was a drug addict and he was a juvinal delinquent.  He even was completely out of football at one point working as a garage door repairman.  Got his life back together went to a junior college became highly recruited and went to Utah (ugh!  Spread offense) for a season and is not being talked about highly in the draft as an LT.   Now he is very athletic and has reasonably good technique.   There are two knocks on him.  First, he will be 25 years old in May (that means a team will get limited time with him).   The other is they say he needs to get stronger.   Now this one concerns me because he is 25 years old playing against guys 2 or 3 years younger than him.  He should be dominating even if he didn't have access to a top notch diet and fitness program.  Still many think he could be a first-round pick and some even think he might be the Giants pick.



Johnson, Dorian   OG   6'5"   315   Pittsburgh    GR   5.8-  Dorian is the recipient of many awards over his career and in particular this past season.   Scouting reports are all over the place.  Some reports see him maybe sneaking into the bottom of the first round while others see him as a day 3 pick.  This forced me to look over some tape.   What I saw was a LG who neither wows or does anything that is glaringly wrong.  He doesn't seem to generate all that much power in the running game, so I wonder how well he would upgrade the RG position if drafted.  He did start some games as a true freshman which is an accomplishment especially for O-linemen. Still, there are reports that some scouts see him a solid 10 year player.  Johnson could be a good pick in the 3rd round and an okay pick in the second round in my opinion. 


Feeney, Dan   OG   6'4"   304   Indiana   GR   5.7-  In some ways he and Dorian Johnson are very similar prospects.   Dan did play RG rather than LG.  I like that he   The reports I read Feeney seem a little more consistent in that he gets good reviews.  Team captain which the Giants like.   There was one AFC scout who questioned his strength.   Looked pretty good at the Senior Bowl as well.   I think he would be a solid guard.  He started all his games as a true freshmen which is very impressive.  If the Giants want to fill the RG position in this draft I think they could do worse than drafting Feeney in the 2nd.   The only cause for concern is he lost his sophomore season to Linsfranc and he missed some of his senior year with a concussion.

Garcia, Antonio   OT   6'6"   293   Troy      GR   5.7-  LT who played very well at Troy 4 seasons with a redshirt freshman year.  Never gave up a sack.   He is very athletic as you would expect from a former hooper.  There are concerns about his weight as the 293 was most likely the heaviest he has been this season.   Antonio is a raw prospect, though.   He is the sort of prospect you would expect to redshirt for a season.   So he is not the ideal draft pick for the Giants as they need immediate help.   In this very weak OT class, he could be over drafted and not even be an option when the Giants pick in the second round.


Banner, Zach   OT   6'8"   361   USC   GR   5.7-   A massive man, pretty much as big as they come in the football world.   He played RT for USC after a redshirt freshman year and an injury-shortened sophomore year.  The book on him is he is powerful as one might expect at his size.  However he has problems keeping his weight down, does not bend at the knees like he should (a big issue for a man this tall) and he isn't the quickest of linemen.   Still, he is big and he moves well for a man his size.   He is the sort of player a team takes a 4th or 5th round flyer on to see if he can play guard or RT.  That said, he has been losing weight and if he manages to get his weight down he might shine at the combine and that could raise his stock.  Interesting Giants connection, he is the son of former Raider Lincoln Kennedy and he was thinking of entering the 2015 draft but the Giants O-diggy so abused him when they met that he stayed in school.  He thought about coming out last season as well but the draft council didn't give him a high enough grade (they tell prospects where they believe they will be drafted) so he stayed in school for the 2016 season.


Johnson, Roderick   T   6'7"   311   Florida St.   GR      5.7-  A guy that has the size and athletic ability that is textbook OT.  There are some scouts that are reportedly high on him and I can only say based on what I saw of him they are high as in they enjoying recreational drugs.   Roderick gets stop dead in his tracks when he tries to run block, he has very quick feet that allow him to retreat with his man right into the QB's lap and I have rarely witnessed an offensive lineman that is so easily shed.  His technique is not terrible, it's just that he fails to produce results.  Now, it's possible he played better in some of the game I didn't watch but in my mind consistency is one of the most important traits you want in an offensive lineman.   This isn't WR where a few big plays in a game is what it takes, a lineman needs to be good play in and play out.    I suspect he might wow people at the combine, but this is a player the Giants need to stay away from


Dawkins, Dion   OG   6'4"   317   Temple   GR   5.7-   This is a player I would LOVE to draft in round 2.   You will see him listed alternately as 6' 3" or 6' 4" (his actual height is 6' 3 7/8") and many will immediately assume he will be a guard in the NFL (being an inch or two too short).  However, I wouldn't be so quick to move him from his college position of LT.   He has nice long arms at 34 5/8 inches and an impressive 84 1/4 wingspan.  I believe those traits will allow him to remain at tackle even in the NFL.   Temple while a lower level of competition runs a pro style offense which means his learning curve will not be as steep as a spread offense lineman. I watched him hold his own against Penn State.  He shows good movement, strength, and good balance.   Like many there are parts of his technique that could use cleaning up but overall I liked what I saw.  I see Dawkins as a possible OT who could also play guard.   As Todge said, the Giants love versatility and I see Dawkins able to play every position but center.  Some will say he has character concerns because he was arrested after a fight with fellow students, but barring extenuating circumstances that doesn't concern me too much.   My only fear is that other teams see Dawkins potential at Tackle and he fails to last until the Giants 2nd pick.  Also, started at tackle as a true freshman until a broken foot ended his season.

Moton, Taylor   OG   6'5"   330   Western Michigan   GR   5.6-  The book on Dion is he is a powerful RT/RG player.  Many scouts seem to think he would be a better RG than a RT owing to a lack of footspeed.   He is very smart (3.84 GPA business major) and strong.   He could be a solution to the need at RG in the 3rd round or better yet the 4th round.  The ability to play RT in a pinch is a plus.   Think a healthier (hopefully) Geoff Schwartz.


Siragusa, Nico   OG   6'5"   330   San Diego St.   GR   5.5-  A powerful and effective run blocker who will most likely project to RG at the NFL level after playing mostly LG with the Aztecs (first season he did play RG).  Can pull effectively and is strong in pass blocking.  The issue is he can be slow out of his stance and quicker DTs could be a challenge for him.  Still not a bad pick to fill a RG position in rounds 3 or 4.  Many were hoping to get a better look at him at the Senior Bowl but a thumb injury sidelined him for much of the event.

Asiata, Isaac   OG   6'3"   325   Utah     GR   5.5-  Powerful run blocking guard who projects to LG by many.   He played LG for most of his college career but also played some C (due to injuries) and some RT.   Not the best pulling guard (which may make him a poor fit for the Giants.  Older than most rookies at 24 (when on a Church mission for a year or so with the Church of LDS).   Known more for his run blocking than his pass blocking.  Might be a consideration for the Giants if he falls to the 4th round even with the fit issues.

Beyond these guys I have listed you are looking at guys with ceilings of marginal starters or backups or are long-term projects who will be unable to contribute to the team for at least a season or two (if ever).  I will include this one final write-up as he has gotten some play among draftniks

Davenport, Julie'n   OT   6'7"   310   Bucknell   GR 5.2-  Has all the tools one looks for in a LT including vine like 36" arms.   I suspect he will even test well at the combine with the exception of the bench press.    Faced low-level competition and didn't' always dominate at that level.   He struggled quite a bit at the Senior Bowl when facing talent that is more NFL caliber.   Unfortunately, this is the sort of all potential no production player Reese seems to love when it comes to drafting offensive linemen (see Brewer, McCants and Mosely).    Hopefully if Jerry does take a flyer on Julie'n he waits to the very lower rounds.   Just because a player looks like an offensive tackle doesn't mean he is one.

Here is Mike Mayock's initial rankings for the OT and OG positions

Offensive tackle

1. Ryan Ramczyk, Wisconsin
2. Garett Bolles, Utah
3. Antonio Garcia, Troy
4. Roderick Johnson, Florida State
T-5. Taylor Moton, Western Michigan
T-5. Jermaine Eluemunor, Texas A&M

Interior OL

1. Forrest Lamp, Western Kentucky
2. Cam Robinson, Alabama
3. Dan Feeney, Indiana
4. Ethan Pocic, LSU
5. Dion Dawkins, Temple


GRADE   TITLE
9.00-10   Once-in-lifetime player
8.00-9.00   Perennial All-Pro
7.50-7.99   Future All-Pro
7.00-7.49   Pro Bowl to All-Pro Ability
6.50-6.99   Good NFL Starter with Pro Bowl Potential
6.00-6.49   Chance to become good NFL starter
5.70-5.99   Could become early NFL starter
5.30-5.69   Backup or eventual starter
5.15-5.29   Developmental prospect or special teams potential
5.01-5.14   Back end of the roster
5.00   50/50 Chance of making the roster


http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/tracker?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:ol

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000785722/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings

An outstanding effort



Here is the article that accompanied the chart

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/are-some-positions-riskier-to-pick-than-others-in-the-nfl-draft/

http://insidethepylon.com/football-101/glossary-football-101/2016/02/03/itp-glossary-bubble-screen/

While I think everyone here knows what that term means, I think the write-up and videos demonstrate the major issue with Flowers.   In both of the demonstrated cases the defender gets into the offensive lineman's chest allowing him to control and overpower them.   In both cases, had the offensive linemen protected his chest and had punched first they wouldn't have been "put on skates".

http://insidethepylon.com/football-101/glossary-football-101/2015/12/23/itp-glossary-put-on-skates/

With conversation about Hankins, it might be helpful to define the role he plays (3 tech) versus the 1 tech Snacks plays.    Here are very good descriptions of both

3 tech

http://insidethepylon.com/football-101/glossary-football-101/2015/08/31/itp-glossary-3-technique/

1 tech

http://insidethepylon.com/football-101/glossary-football-101/2015/08/17/itp-glossary-1-technique/

Now size wise the 3 tech is usually in the 290 to 310 weight class while 1 tech is usually 320 plus


Hankins is 6-2 and 320 pounds (listed)

With draft talk starting up in earnest, we will be hearing terms like this.  This website does an excellent job of explaining exactly what they mean.   

http://insidethepylon.com/football-101/glossary-football-101/2015/10/06/itp-glossary-hip-fluidity/

Earlier this week, current Cleveland Browns o-line coach Bob Wylie broke down the details and assignments within traditional 7-man protections, and the differences between

Bob Wylie, current Cleveland Browns o-line coach, and a veteran of 40 years on football sidelines, explains the details and assignments within traditional 7-man protections.  He also dives into the differences between

Always an interesting read

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000785722/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings?campaign=tw-cf-sf56140990-sf56140990

Pretty much every offseason discussion involving the roster, free agency, salary cap and the draft should start with the Giants actual 2017 roster.  Yet, I am never able to find a depth chart or roster that reflects the real current Giants roster.  So I have created one for our group that shows the current Giants roster prior to free agency and the draft.  I have included exclusive rights and restricted free agents in the depth chart even though they technically are not on the roster because the Giants can acquire all the exclusive rights guys cheap and the two restricted rights I am thinking will be tendered.  I did make a notation of those players though so that it's easier to spot them.


Pos   No.   Player 1   No   Player 2   No   Player 3   No   Player 4   No   Player 5

OFFENSE

LWR   13   Beckham Jr., Odell 14/1   82   Lewis, Roger CF16   86   Powe, Darius Fut/WR  Jalen Williams               
RWR     15   Brandon Marshall   17   Harris, Dwayne U/Dal    83   Norwood, Kevin Fut/WR   Rob Wheelwright            
WR   87   Shepard, Sterling 16/2   12     King, Tavarres SF15   Travis Rudolph  Keeon Johnson            
LT   74   Flowers, Ereck 15/1      Michael Bowie   Chad Wheeler            
LG   67   Pugh, Justin 13/1   69   60  Gettis, Adam   Jessamen Dunker    Sam Ekwonike            
C   70   Richburg, Weston 14/2   69   Jones, Brett SF15    C Khaled Holmes                  
RG    77      John Jerry         75   Halapio, Jon Fut/OG      Martin Wallace    Armando Bonheur           
RT   76   DJ Fluker     68   Hart, Bobby 15/7  66   Adam Bisnowaty            
TE     85     Rhett Ellison    88  Evan Engram   45   Tye, Will CF15  89   Adams, Jerell 16/6   81   LaCosse, Matt   Colin Thompson      
QB   10   Manning, Eli T/SD  8   QB Josh Johnson     3   Geno Smith  5  Davis Webb   
FB    Shane Smith                     
RB   28   Perkins, Paul 16/5  44  Wayne Gallman   26   Darkwa, Orleans P/Mia   Shaun Draughn     48   Huesman, Jacob Fut/RB      34   Vereen, Shane   Daryl Virgies


DEFENSE

LDE   90    JPP   72   Wynn, Kerry CF14   78   Okwara, Romeo CF16    71   Maponga, Stansly Fut/DE            
LDT   98   Harrison, Damon SF16   96   Bromley, Jay 14/3   Jarron Jones            
RDT    94  Dalvin Tomlinson   99   Thomas, Robert W/Car   79   Williams, Jordan Fut/DT   Josh Banks               
RDE   54   Vernon, Olivier U/Mia   58   Odighizuwa, Owamagbe 15/3    91   Avery Moss   Evan Schwan      
SLB   59   Kennard, Devon 14/5      61   Williams, Ishaq CF16  44   Mark Herzlich    Curtis Grant            
MLB   93   Goodson, BJ 16/4   57  Keenan Robinson   55   Thomas, JT    Calvin Munson            
WLB   52   Casillas, Jonathan U/NE   44   Skinner, Deontae SF16            
LCB   41   Rodgers-Cromartie, Dominique U/Den   24   Apple, Eli 16/1      Valentino Blake          
SS   21   Collins, Landon 15/2   29   Berhe, Nat 14/5      FUT   36   Murphy, Ryan Fut/FS              
FS   27   Thompson, Darian   33   Adams, Andrew CF16   37   Pinkins, Eric SF16   22   Thompson, Mykkele    Rahim Moore   Jadar Johnson   
RCB   20   Jenkins, Janoris U/LA    39   Hunter, Michael Fut/CB   38   Deayon, Donte Fut/CB  Nigel Tribune

      
SPECIAL TEAMS

P   9   Wing, Brad T/Pit                        
PK     Aldrick Rosas                         
LS   51   Zak DeOssie                     
H   9   Wing, Brad T/Pit                        
PR   17   Harris, Dwayne U/Dal       13   Beckham Jr., Odell 14/1   87   Shepard, Sterling 16/2      
KR   17   Harris, Dwayne U/Dal        87   Shepard, Sterling 16/2   


restricted free agent- *player* Wynn was tendered with the lowest offer ($1.7 million).  If a team makes him an offer the Giants don't match they get nothing

In case you are wondering who is missing:

Giants Unrestricted Free Agents

QB Ryan Nassib
QB Josh Johnson
RB Bobby Rainey
TE Larry Donnell
OT Will Beatty
OT/OG Marshall Newhouse
OG John Jerry
DE Jason Pierre-Paul
DT Johnathan Hankins
LB Keenan Robinson
LB Kelvin Sheppard
LB Mark Herzlich
CB/S Leon Hall
CB Trevin Wade
CB Coty Sensabaugh
PK Robbie Gould
LS Zak DeOssie

Players the team may cut (with their cap savings)

Victor Cruz-  $7,500,000
Shane Vereen-  $3,750,000
JT Thomas- $3,000,000
Rashad Jennings- $2,500,000
Dwayne Harris-    $1,400,000  (would have a big $2,400,000 cap hit if cut)


The depth chart I used as the base for updating and editting
i

http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NYG

This topic has been moved to Big Blue Huddle.

http://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=39071.0

BBH's own former college official (his name is Al by the way) does an in-depth look at the NFL rule changes this season.  Al also has connections with NFL officials which allows him more insights.  We are going to try something different this season.  We are going to leave the thread unlocked for people to ask questions.  Now I know refs are not popular with many fans.  We at BBH as you keep the questions and comments respectful.   

A LOOK AT THE NFL OFFICIATING CHANGES

by BayAreaGiants (Al)


It is almost time to play football again and time to take a look at some of the changes that have (or haven't) been made related to NFL officiating during the off season.

NFL Front Office Changes

Despite the assumptions of some and the claims of many, the discipline (i.e., fines and suspensions) that is handed down weekly to NFL players is not the work of Roger Goodell but a committee within the NFL office previously headed by Merton Hanks, the ex-49er and reporting to Troy Vincent, Executive Vice President of Football Operations. Both Hanks and Vincent, as well as the other members of the committee are ex-players.

Hanks left his position with the NFL during the offseason and the league has announced that Jon Runyan has been appointed to a newly created position of vice president of policy and rules administration. Among his duties, Runyan will serve as the executive in charge of on-field discipline

This topic has been moved to Big Blue Huddle.

http://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=38003.0

There is a disturbing trend where there is less and less respect shown to fellow posters here at BBH.  Respect is more than refraining name calling.

Respect is showing respect for a poster's opinions and ideas

Respect is showing respect for a poster's knowledge and/or experience

Respect is showing respect for a poster even if they are younger or been a fan for a shorter time

Respect is disagreeing with someone in a respectful manner

Respect is showing respect for your fellow posters by not making the same points over and over and over and over again

Respect is most tested in how you treat those you don't agree with.   It's easy to respect someone you agree with, the challenge is when you don't

Some would even argue that respect on a message board devoted to Giants fans is showing respect for the team and all those associated with that team even if you don't think they are doing a good job

Respect is key part of the foundation of civility and good conversation.   Civility is what BBH is built on.  Those that fail to pay heed to this post may find themselves on the wrong side of those who enforce the board's rules.   

I requested civility immediately after the loss and that request seems to have fallen on deaf ears for some.  If posters will ignore that and this post, then moderators will take action to ensure there is respect and civility. 

These are the new posting guide lines to ensure that BBH maintains the core values I have posted at the end of the guidelines.   Please be advised if you do not follow the guidelines you will be subject to progressive disciplinary actions.  Losing fans from the board is never a good thing but a disruptive poster can often cost more as good people quietly leave.   So please pay heed to these guidelines

1)  CIVILITY-  Insults or insulting comments directed at other board members is not acceptable behavior.   Please conduct yourself like a gentleman or gentlewoman (which ever applies)

2)  THESE LOOP HOLES ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE

A)  Insult a person's idea is no more acceptable than insulting the person directly.  Laughing at or mocking another member's position is not acceptable behavior

B) Making the target general will also be an unacceptable loophole.  Going after people here at BBH but not naming names is still unacceptable behavior

3)  This is a PG 13 board and so please use content and language that is appropriate

4)  Please be mindful that the board automatically sends out to our 7000+ social media followers the title of all new posts on the main board with a link back.  So please use good titles and if you posting a non-football topic please use put "NFT" (no quotes) in the title.  This will prevent the post from being broadcast and will let people know it's a topic that doesn't involve football

5)  It is not OK to retaliate or engage in cyber vigilante justice.   If you have an issue with a post please use the report post feature of if you have an issue with a poster please PM a moderator or admin.  So if you feel that someone insulted you or someone is disruptive notify the moderation team, that's their job to handle such things in a fair and impartial manner.

Common Courtesy, these are not rules per say but general guidelines on how to be a considerate poster to your fellow fans here on BBH

1)  Check to see that you are not posting a duplicate thread before starting a new one.   While we can merge threads, it's always nice to check first

2)  When referring to a member of the Giants organization please refrain from name calling.  It may surprise some to know that this board is filled with Giants fans and many of them don't enjoy hearing their favorite team insulted even by fellow fans.  It's OK to criticize the team but stay away from hyperbole (exaggeration)

3)  No one likes repetition.  If you have a point to make make it and move on or discuss it if fellow fans are interested.   A great way to annoy your fellow fans is to make the same basic point over and over again on all sorts of different topics.   Slight variations of the point doesn't make this practice anymore welcome

4) We are a big cyberfamily here.  So be considerate to your fellow Giants fans.   We all suffer the same ups and downs

5) Try not to side track a thread.  If you find yourself getting to off topic, consider starting a new thread.   Odds are some may find the new topic interesting and will not know to look and others who were talking about the original topic may annoyed that the thread changed to a topic different from the one they wanted to talk about.

6)  BBH is known for intelligent conversation.  So try and support opinions you make with reasons and facts.  Remember the whole difference between fact, opinion and belief.


Thank you and enjoy


BBH CORE VALUES

1)  Respect and Civility-  We should always been respectful and civil to one another.  We tell people they should join here because this is a site where you can be expected to be treated fairly and with respect

2)  We invite intelligent and well reasoned discussion-   There are plenty of places for over the top comments and wild arguments.  We have a board here for smart, mature and good conversation.   We want to talk football, Xs and Os, players and coaches and the like.  It's not about who you think sucks or who is worthless.  You can feel that someone isn't cutting it, but express it in a smart and respectful manner.  You can say Coughlin isn't getting the job done and explain why you feel that way.  Calling him a senile old man that needs to be fired isn't the sort of conversation BBH was created for.

3)  We are more than just a message board.   This is like a cyber family.  Many are friends here off the board and if that's not your thing that's fine to.  The idea is that we are supportive of one another.  Here you talk to people not just some disposable screen name or Twitter Handle.   We are all people here that try to support one another and from time to time we have gatherings for people to meet.

4)  BBH is you the members.  We the moderator team have the responsibility to keep order and make sure people don't hurt the board or disrupt things but in the end a message board is just a bunch of computer files, what makes this a great place and what this place really is, is all of you the people that post and share your thoughts and participate. 

I have a feeling this could be a topic of conversation come training camp as the Giants try to set their WR lineup.  Just listened to Ross Tucker's Podcast where Greg Cosell, an NFL analyst and a senior producer at NFL Films, discussed the difference between the WR positions.  You can listen to it here (It's RTFP #60 starting starting at 14:25):

http://podcastone.com/Ross-Tucker-Football-Podcast

From my own research over the years I could describe the positions like this:

X Receiver or Split End-  This is usually a team's number one WR.  He is usually tethered to the line of scrimmage and lined up on the weakside (the side without the TE) of the formation.  There are two things about that position.  Because he can't move (he is a LOS guy) and he is right on that line he frequently faces press coverage.  That means he needs to be strong enough or have the quickness and body control to beat that press coverage.   Defenses will also tend to play M2M coverage on him.  So if he can consistently beat M2M coverage he gives your offense a real edge as teams will need to roll a safety to his side to assist. 

The Z receiver or Flanker-  This guy has to line up off the LOS (otherwise the TE is not an eligible receiver) on the strongside of the formation.  As a result of lining off the line he can go in motion and he has room to try and beat press coverage.  As a result this receiver can be a smaller receiver and often the routes he runs will be ones that set up yards after the catch situations.  He will often work combo routes so being a smarter receiver is an asset.  A Z can really enjoy a lot of receptions if the team has good X receiver that demands the defense's attention.  This position will often be called on to do more run blocking. 

The Slot receiver or H receiver-  This receiver lines up inside off the line of scrimmage and can go in motion.  Often the receiver will run his route based on coverage and the route run by other receivers.  So football smarts is key.  The slot guy needs to be able to find the weakness of the defensive coverage.  Most slot receivers tend to be on the smaller size as they rarely will face press coverage and usually don't run routes where size will help (although there are notable exceptions).  Again yards after the catch is often an important part of this receiver's abilities. 

When you look at the Giants receiving corps:

Victor Cruz-  Has shown to be a solid slot WR and good as a Z receiver.   Not an X receiver by any stretch of the imagination

Ruben Randle-  Has the size to be an X receiver.  I don't think he has shown the ability to consistently beat man coverage though.

Odell Beckham-  He is your prototypical Z receiver.  Has great YAC ability and the speed to stretch the field in route combinations.  He would also most likely do well in the slot position.   The interesting thing is he was drafted with people assuming he would replace Nicks (who played the X position).  I am not sure at Beckham's size he will have the ability to consistently beat press coverage.  That will be something to watch in camp and in PS games as it could go a long way to how the Giants use their WRs.   After all of Beckham could play the X then Cruz can go Z and JJ could come in and play slot (his prefered position)

I think Manningham is pretty much just a Z receiver.    I think Julian Talley is a backup X or Z guy.