Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 01, 2024, 08:45:23 AMI have to confess, I was left a bit puzzled.  The claim that Mara "impacted" the decision not to draft a QB at 6 wasn't actually supported by the provided quote.  Either the author mischaracterized Lombardi's quote or they left out important parts of the quote.

I found another take on the quote:


"I wasn't surprised at all by that," Lombardi said on The Sports Junkies on 106.7 The Fan in D.C. on Monday. "Because if you listened to what John Mara said at the owners' meetings ... he said very clearly, 'I'll favor them drafting a quarterback if they're in love.' And he used the word 'love.'"

"I think they were in love with Drake Maye, but I don't think they were in love with J.J. McCarthy. And remember, John Mara, the president of the team -- he's the reason why Daniel Jones is making all that money -- he loves Daniel Jones. He drafted Daniel Jones as the sixth pick overall. Nothing would make them more happy than Daniel Jones being successful. They're almost willing it to happen. It won't, but they're hoping it will."

https://www.audacy.com/973thefansd/sports/lombardi-nygs-loyalty-to-players-causes-bad-decisions


I am not sure that you need an owner to tell a good GM that you should only be drafting a QB at 6 if you love that prospect.  With a less than 50% success rate on drafted QBs, drafting one hoping they will prove to be good is a bit of a fool's errand, in my opinion

Quote from: T200 on May 01, 2024, 09:48:00 AMSpeaking strictly about *our* conversations, I never said he was a bust but I also said that he has not shown any traces or tendencies of being a franchise QB. He's the very definition of an average QB who is not capable of putting his team on his back and dragging them to a victory. He can get 7-9 wins but doesn't offer anything to get 12-15. He is a step down from Ryan Tannehill but with legs.

I guess that is where we differ.  I see examples of DJs being capable of being franchise QB.  I think his performance against the Vikings and even his record-setting performance against the Cards last season showed that he can be that franchise QB.   Of course, showing flashes and doing it consistently are two separate things.  Everyone sees things a bit differently, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Quote from: T200 on May 01, 2024, 09:34:42 AMAnd this is where we have and continue to disagree. No need to rehash it. Just thought it was curious that you said "I believe even with disparate support, we can get a sense of how good another QB is", which is exactly why I and others have been saying.

Tim,

You know I choose my words carefully.  Do you think "a sense" is the same as knowing?  When I use the words "a sense," one is less than certain.   When one is less than certain, it should limit the strength of one's statements.   I have always held the position that we can't be certain about DJ being a bust and that there is still some potential (admittedly a bit of a long shot at this point) that he can even prove to be a franchise QB.   

Quote from: T200 on May 01, 2024, 09:27:08 AMI have been saying this every single year Jones has been in the league: he can be evaluated despite what support he has or doesn't have around him. I got a lot of pushback from you and others saying that it was too difficult to evaluate him because of the lack of quality NFL support.

Seems to me the ability to evaluate a player is subjective.

Tim,

I think there is a nuance on this issue.  In a dysfunctional environment, every, or nearly every, QB will look bad.   In a poor environment, people should factor in the poor environment (many do not).

More importantly, the ability to properly evaluate a quarterback is really the purview of that quarterback's coaching staff.  As Daboll once said, people don't know the play calls.  An apparent open receiver may be meaningless because they ran the wrong route.   The fact of the matter is that we can get a sense of QB play by watching the games (or better yet, reviewing the all-22 with an informed eye), but no one outside the organization can evaluate with a strong degree of certainty (lacking the play calls and the QB's instructions).

Quote from: T200 on May 01, 2024, 09:19:06 AMAs a fan, and in general, I try not to engage in it. It's self-defeatist, in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure all GMs and coaches know being second-guessed by fans and the media are a part of the job. They expect it and it probably doesn't phase them.

Tim,

I will confess I like to play armchair GM (and occasional HC).  Team-building just fascinates me.  Although I have my ideas of what I would do, I tend not to second-guess the actual GM or HC because I know they make their decisions wth far more information than I do; plus, they know their profession better than I do.  I think all of us do give in to the second-guessing temptation when dealing with GMs like Gettleman and HCs like Joe Judge.

Quote from: T200 on May 01, 2024, 09:15:53 AM           

I will admit that some of that is assuming that Jones is healthy and will get a chance to operate in at least a minimally supportive NFL quarterback environment this season.  Plus, we have 2022, where DJ did operate in a less-than-ideal, but at least not dysfunctional (like 2023) environment.  Much like Schoen and Daboll were able to evaluate Jones enough in 2022 to give him his big contract.

Talkin' Giants

@TalkinGiants
Giants Reported UDFA signings

Wyoming WR Ayir Asante
West Florida WR Jon Jiles
North Dakota State OL Jake Kubas
Missouri OT Marcellus Johnson
UCLA DB Alex Johnson
Oregon DT Casey Rogers
LSU EDGE Ovie Oghoufo
Rutgers K Jude McAtamney

Giants have room for 1 more signing.
9:10 AM · May 1, 2024
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Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 01, 2024, 09:11:43 AMMost of the playoffs team we face are in our division besides Tampa and Baltimore.

That is how you can finish 3rd in your division and still have the 6th hardest, on paper, schedule

Quote from: T200 on May 01, 2024, 09:02:43 AM1) No

2) No

3) No

Playing the hindsight game is pointless, IMO. Decisions are made with as much information that is available at that time. He made what he thought were the best choices for this team given the many circumstances. He, and we as fans, will live with those decisions. Anybody can sit back and second-guess and we all can sit behind our keyboards with zero pressure and say what we would do. But put us in the spotlight and on the hot seat and things look a lot different.

What's done is done. We press forward and move on.

If one of the three QBs that Schoen (and Mara) passed on has an outstanding season, here's what's going to happen here at the BBH:

- There will be a litany of "I told you so" threads from folks who wanted to move on from Jones
- There will be a ton of pushback from Jones supporters saying, "It's only one season. Daniel had a great 2022 and won a playoff game."
- There will be the same regurgitated arguments for and against Jones. The horse will be resuscitated to only be beaten to death again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Tim,

I can't disagree with your sentiment.   I will say, though, if you don't like being second-guessed, being an NFL GM (or head coach) is the wrong career choice.  Being an armchair GM/HC/QB is part of the fun of being a fan.

Quote from: TONKA56 on May 01, 2024, 08:55:29 AMI predict that if JJ McCarthy goes on to have an excellent career, the pro-Jones camp will attribute it to the team around him while the anti-Jones camp will put Schoen in the crosshairs for it, with the occasional mention of a Mara ultimatum.

I don't think that will be the case. I assume you put me in the "pro-Jones" camp.  I believe even with disparate support, we can get a sense of how good another QB is.  I don't even think JJ (a prospect I liked) needs to be better than Jones to question passing on him.  There is the issue of the cheap rookie contract that comes with JJ that would have helped the Giants salary cap.

In my opinion, passing on the three QBs comes with significant risk for Schoen and the company.  I have to think that they are banking on Jones having a comeback (or failing that being in a position to acquire his replacement next offseason) or they truly don't see the 3 prospects available to them as being anything special.

1)  Should Schoen be fired for passing on a good quarterback?

2)  Would you say that QBs perform differently in different situations and the Giants offense minus Nabers would have made it difficult to draft and develop a QB (who wasn't at least an elite prospect)?

3)  Would Jones performing very well, give Schoen and company a pass on one of the 3 later drafted QBs doing well?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 30, 2024, 09:03:49 PMA sense of humor is great and all, but I might have waited until I have taken a single NFL snap or possibly even made a single tackle before I started dissing people like Sterling Shepard and even OBJ, both of whom have made material contributions to this franchise.

Schoen talked about Nubin being a "culture setter".   This is exactly how you set a culture, calling out behavior that hurts the team rather than helping it.  I can't wait to see how he is in a couple of seasons.  I have a feeling the Giants have found themselves a true team leader.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 01, 2024, 06:46:55 AMFormer NFL executive and current analyst Michael Lombardi believes that New York Giants co-owner John Mara impacted the club's decision to not spend the sixth pick of the 2024 NFL Draft on a replacement for starting quarterback Daniel Jones.

"And remember, John Mara, the president of the team -- he's the reason why Daniel Jones is making all that money -- he loves Daniel Jones," Lombardi said during a Monday appearance on sports radio station 106.7 The Fan, per Dan Mennella of Audacy. "He drafted Daniel Jones as the sixth pick overall. Nothing would make them more happy than Daniel Jones being successful. They're almost willing it to happen. It won't, but they're hoping it will."

I have to confess, I was left a bit puzzled.  The claim that Mara "impacted" the decision not to draft a QB at 6 wasn't actually supported by the provided quote.  Either the author mischaracterized Lombardi's quote or they left out important parts of the quote.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on May 01, 2024, 08:38:22 AMSimms is a smart, funny, fascinating guy who really muted himself to fit TV. He's much better when he does relaxed podcasts or is a guest on people's shows, he lets down his hair and is himself. His media career is far from over.

That's an interesting observation.  I tend to agree. I like podcast Simms better than I like broadcast Simms.

While Waller isn't sure his heart is still in football, he seems to be all in on his music career


https://x.com/SNYGiants/status/1748432843326267844