Big Blue Huddle

https://x.com/frontofficenfl/status/1707172252821897523?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

https://x.com/nfl_dovkleiman/status/1707171311477273059?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Quote from: Rambo89 on September 27, 2023, 03:15:47 PMHas there been a team that has invested more draft capital into "protecting" their QB after being drafted as the Giants have Daniel Jones?  They've already invested the 4th, 7th overall picks plus a 2nd rounder into offensive linemen to protect him.

Looking around the league you have Dak who has 3 1st rounders on his line however, 2 of them were drafted years before the Cowboys drafted Dak.  Herbert has 2 first rounders on his line drafted after he was taken but Herbert has also put up big time production his first 3 season's in the league.  Beyond those two I can't think of another who has had their franchise invest as much into their offensive line in draft capital as the Giants have.

Sadly, the problem wasn't the willingness to spend, the problem was they (multiple GMs now) didn't spend wisely.

Anthony Rivardo
@Anthony_Rivardo
Just how bad has the Giants' offensive line been this season?

- Daniel Jones has been under pressure on 46.7% of his dropbacks, the highest rate in the league. The league average last season was 34%.

- They have allowed 27 pressures in under two seconds, nearly 2x as many as the 2nd-worst team.

- Even when using added help (blocking 6 or more players), they have still given up pressure on 53.7% of those plays, the third-highest rate in the league. The league average is 33.5%.

- Jones has earned a 44.0 PFF passing grade under pressure, 22nd among 34 qualifying quarterbacks. However, that grade jumps to 75.7 from a clean pocket, 16th at the position.

This offensive line is historically bad. The team will not succeed this season with this level of play. Something needs to change, and it needs to change quickly.

Thank the heavens Andrew Thomas and Ben Bredeson are returning this week.

-Stats via
@PFF
9:35 AM · Sep 27, 2023
·
56.7K
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Quote from: Trench on September 27, 2023, 02:27:59 PMJones must take some responsibility for being unable to see downfield.

I posted a question earlier relating to another interesting stat on Jones which is another area of concern which I didn't even realize. I expect a monster game out of him on Monday Night Football. He needs it desperately.

QBs are not going to be looking downfield when they are pressured in under 2 seconds.   That is essentially the problem of the offense (beyond what I already mentioned).  With pressure landing so quickly and consistently, the Giants can't target the deep part of the field.  That allows the defense to crowd the LOS, which minimizes YAC and open receivers in the short and intermediate parts of the field.

It will be hard to spread out the defense by pushing them back if they can't run the deeper plays that require the line to hold up long enough for receivers to get down the field.  It really comes down to the line needs to play much better than they have.  Running the ball will no doubt help the line, but ultimately it comes down to the line playing well enough as to not disrupt and limit the offense.

Quote from: Philosophers on September 27, 2023, 01:18:24 PMThose stats confirm what my eyes have seen.  As he is dropping back, the pocket is already collapsing.  It's not like he makes his drop back then scans the field then gets sacked in what is more of a blend between a coverage sack and pass rush sack.  No, it is a 100% early pocket collapse most of the time.  I know what my eyes see.

One thing I also noticed is that the pressure if often coming from multiple directions.   A QB can often defeat pressure from one defender but it's extremely challenging to deal with pressure from multiple defenders

Quote from: Stringer Bell on September 27, 2023, 12:50:24 PMAgree 100%. While being worst in the league at allowing pressure on pass plays is certainly a very bad thing, allowing immediate pressure will create unavoidable failure.

And to do at a rate twice as much as the second worst team is inexcusable. Bobby Johnson needs to go. Otherwise, the buck stops with Daboll. Period.

I agree Bobby needs to go if this line isn't fixed.   Although I am not prepared to say he should be an in-season firing

Quote from: RelaxTension on September 27, 2023, 12:47:59 PMHave the Bills olines played good back when these two were coaching them?
I'm sorry I don't usually watch many of the games besides the Giants.

The Bills threw a lot of resources at the O-line.   They never played great and good might be a stretch but they weren't as bad as what we have seen with the Giants

Quote from: RelaxTension on September 27, 2023, 12:37:30 PMHow is Bobby Johnson still allowed to coach them?

He was hand-picked by Daboll (they worked together in Buffalo).  I believe he was one of the first position coaches hired.  In those situations, it usually takes quite a bit for the coach to get fired.  As I have said before, I think this team is missing assistant O-line coach Tony Sparano Jr., who was hired by the Colts and has that line blocking well.

Here's a pretty good article on just how bad the O-line is.

Giants' offensive line unsurprisingly ranks dead last in PFF's latest rankings


https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-giants/giants-offensive-line-unsurprisingly-ranks-dead-last-in-pffs-latest-rankings/

QuoteOnly 11 guards are allowing a 9%-plus pressure rate this season, and three of them — Mark Glowinski, Shane Lemieux and Marcus McKethan — play for the Giants.
    Zoltán Buday of Pro Football Focus

Quote from: Philosophers on September 27, 2023, 12:02:14 PMRich - what's crazy is current management drafted Thibs.  Is he a bad fit or is he a talent miss?  I'm tending toward the latter.

I looked at PFF's grades last year and this year (same system).   Last year KT played well.   I am at a loss to explain his drastic drop in performance in all aspects

The racing incident that killed a man isn't Carter's only red flag.  Carter showed up to his Pro Day overweight and out of shape (reports of being winded and cramping)

I think the second stat is the more damning one.  Pressure under 2 seconds will blow up almost any play from any offense.  It's hard to put up a consistent offense if you are averaging nine blown-up plays due to major blocking failures a game. 

Until or unless they can fix this issue, the offense will continue to struggle.  I feel optimistic good health will fix the issues with the left side of the line; I am not sure what can fix the issues Neal is having.  However, I will say this, coaches can usually coverup the deficiencies of one weak OT via scheme providing the other OT is sound.   

Quote from: RelaxTension on September 27, 2023, 09:51:37 AMThe new excuse for bad defensive play these days..

I am not making an excuse.   Frankly, McKinney underperformed last season (when healthy).   There is a harsh but little-discussed cost when you change coaches and schemes.   Whenever you make such changes, there is always a risk of a player being a square peg trying to fit a round hole.  The more drastic the changes, the greater the chances of players not fitting the new scheme.

Quote from: kingm56 on September 27, 2023, 08:34:36 AMWho would you identify as a tough-guy on the current Giants team?  In the past, we had Keith "Hammer" Hamilton, Rich Suebert, LT, etc...  We simply don't have that type of mentality on either side of the ball. 

An interesting point, no real tough guys on this defense.  Although, that's a bit of an oddity in year two with a GM who puts a premium on smart, TOUGH, and dependable players.