Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 29, 2024, 12:04:29 PMThis is the classic nameless quote which I remember seeing at some point:

"It's very noticeable how little they make him play like an NFL quarterback," the coach said about Jones during a chat with NFL senior writer Mike Sando of The Athletic. "He has the easiest reads and the easiest concepts, and still he does not throw the ball accurately. He doesn't throw to the correct leverage, doesn't throw the receivers open, just doesn't do it. I'm giving you zero opinions. This is all the tape shows."

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/defensive_coach_rips_giants_daniel_jones_amid_struggles/s1_13132_39350063

True,

One defensive coach (no reason to believe this coach was a DC since writers will usually designate that, made these comments while not putting his name to them.  Plus, this was based on the dysfunctional 2023 season.  I don't think this evidence supports the claims made on this thread, especially when considered in context of what the offensive coach said.


Jones would look better if the Giants' offensive line were not so weak, if running back Saquon Barkley were healthy, if the team had better wide receivers and if the Giants had faced fewer top defenses to this point.

"I wouldn't want to be playing quarterback for the Giants right now," one offensive coach said.

Still, coaches who have watched Jones this season do not see evidence the Giants have faith in their quarterback to operate more than a basic offense. They see a quarterback who limits the Giants' options more than he expands them.

"It's very noticeable how little they make him play like an NFL quarterback," a defensive coach said. "He has the easiest reads and the easiest concepts, and still he does not throw the ball accurately. He doesn't throw to the correct leverage, doesn't throw the receivers open, just doesn't do it. I'm giving you zero opinions. This is all the tape shows."

This coach cited example after example of misplaced balls even on completed passes.

A completed swing pass to a wide-open Barkley that the running back had to catch between his ankles in the closing minutes at Arizona was one such play.

The placement of a completed pass to Parris Campbell late in the second quarter against San Francisco that prevented the receiver from getting out of bounds to stop the clock was another.

When Jones connected with rookie Jalin Hyatt for a 31-yard gain in the late going against the Cardinals, it was a huge play, but the ball placement brought the defensive back into position for a near breakup.

"The guy is open — just lay it up to him," the defensive coach said of the pass to Hyatt. "He makes it a competitive jump-ball situation."

The pick-six interception Jones threw against Seattle, which precipitated Daboll's sideline tablet toss, was among the obvious missteps.

On another pick-six, this one against Dallas, Jones targeted Barkley on a third-and-19 play in the first quarter. The Cowboys had a cornerback positioned in cloud coverage to smash into Barkley the moment Barkley caught the ball. That's what happened, sending the ball high into the air, where it was intercepted and returned for a touchdown.

https://theathletic.com/4928209/2023/10/05/giants-jets-daniel-jones-zach-wilson-struggles/

Quote from: babywhales on March 29, 2024, 09:55:11 AMI have heard multiple say that jones was running the most basic offense and poorly at that.  One DC, in fact some even mocked him for his inability to run such a simple offense.

I did not hear that from any of the many former NFL people I listen to.  If you have the name and quote from the DC, I would be interested in hearing it.

Quote from: Philosophers on March 29, 2024, 09:58:45 AMRich - as you know catching a deep pass is much more different than catching a 4 yarder.  Bodies need to contort more, the timing of when the eyes look up to receive the ball is important, watching the ball come in, etc is what makes a great deep ball catcher.  That's what I want to know about Nabers.  I want to see stats that support this view he can do it.

Rich -

Your QB needs to be able to reach you as well.  When I scouted Nabers I noticed Nabers constantly had to throttle back on his deep passes (costing yards and TDs) because Daniels was always underthrowing him.

Quote from: Gmo11 on March 29, 2024, 09:49:14 AMA lot of the same things were said about Lamar Jackson when he was coming out.  Too slight of a build, too much running, going to be injured all the time, not accurate. etc.  And what happened was Lamar was just the best athlete on the field even at the NFL level and has won 2 MVP awards.  I'd certainly take that from a Giants QB!  Not saying Daniels is going to be as good as Lamar but I wouldn't write him off just based on that. 

Jackon has been able to complete only one full season out of 6, and he didn't have the wreckless running style of Daniels.

Plus, with Jackson, do you measure your team's success by your quarterback's awards and stats or by the team's success in the playoffs?

With 4.35 speed Nabers should have no problem being a deep threat.   From what I have seen, I think the lack of arm strength by Daniels limited Naber's deep production.

https://x.com/BigBlueVCR/status/1773696621575905781?s=20

Quote from: babywhales on March 29, 2024, 08:52:04 AMWell he should fit in well with the Giants QB room as they run the most remedial offense in the NFL. 


If true, looks like the they can leave the training wheels on the offense regardless of who is behind center.

I listen to a ton of NFL experts (former GMs, coaches, and players) and I have yet to hear a single one of them suggest the Giants offense was simple or simplified

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 29, 2024, 08:11:01 AMEvery call had 2 plays either a run or a pass, with little to no audibles, or line protection adjustments. That sounds slimmed down to me.

Where did you learn that from?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 09:51:08 PMProbably McCarthy for me, but I could be wrong. I'm not down on McCarthy but I really like the ceilings of the other three.

Why wouldn't you think that the youngest quarterback who has improved each of his college seasons doesn't have a high ceiling?

Quote from: katkavage on March 29, 2024, 07:32:35 AMYou might be right, you might be wrong. Despite his size, Jones's running style is abysmal. So size doesn't matter if you don't know how to slide and protect your body. I don't know enough about Daniels to say if he does or doesn't have a good running style. That he hasn't been injured, even in big time college play, is a good sign and doesn't mean he will get pummeled in the NFL.

Quote from: JPPT1974 on March 28, 2024, 08:29:25 PMWell as it would be surprising. Then it would not be surprising. As JJ is a future NFL star regardless of NFL team. But hope he can really be in the league for the long haul. Question is if he will land with the Giants or where?! But he has a promising future.

Welcome 

I think you may be right about JJ

Caleb Williams-  Diva combined with helicopter dad has disaster written all over it, no matter how much talent he has

Jayden Daniels-  We are trying to move on from an injury-prone QB, and I think Daniels is going to be injured often and seriously in the NFL.  He was 210 at his Pro Day after refusing to be weighed at the Combine; I suspect his real weight is closer to 200 (maybe less).  Worse, not only is he light, he has a reckless running style that allows defenders to hit him hard.  He got away with that in college, but NFL players are bigger and faster.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 28, 2024, 09:14:15 PMWell Daboll has practice, hes already dumbed down the playbook.

That's not exactly what he did.  He sped up plays because his offensive lines have been poor and then historically bad.   There is a difference between modifying plays to get the ball out quicker (or run) and simplifying them for the QB.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 08:31:04 PMI am not sure how unpredictable they are when you're talking about a guy who had missed multiple games due to significant injuries in three out of his four seasons as a pro.

Jeff,

First, I can't fault NYG for the ACL.  Those can happen at any time to any player.  What I fault Ronnie Barnes for (the GM counts on his medical people to tell them if a player is too risky to sign) is the repeat neck injury.   In any football organization, the medical people develop risk models and develop grades on how likely a player is going to be injured moving forward.   With signings like DJ's, the trade for Waller, and the re-signing of Shepard, it's hard not to look at NYG and see a very flawed model being employed or incompetent people employing that model.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 07:33:19 PMI think they were feeling pressure from above to make sure both Jones and Barkley remained Giants in 2023. I think the combination of that, plus the fact that there weren't really easy or obvious alternatives, led them to their decision. I don't think they were ever sky high on Jones. It was a confluence of circumstances (mainly the above) that led to the decision, and the contract they gave him, while very substantial, was structured in a way that they weren't tied to him for nearly as long as most teams tie themselves to QBs who get big second contracts.

Looking at how things have played out since the decision, I would say there is little doubt that they now wish they had franchised Jones and just signed Barkley to a three year deal with a two year out.

The benefits of hindsight.   Unfortunately injuries can be unpredictable, especially if you have a subpar medical department and you fail to protect your franchise QB