Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2024, 11:42:35 AMRich - I simply can't buy that.  With a great OL and strong running game you can win with average WRs as they can always eventually get open with great pass blocking.  A great running game does not allow a DL to just focus on getting to the QB.

Take Eli Manning:

Here are Manning's stats by year.  Consider two years.  In 2014, the Giants added OBJ, and in 2018, the Giants added Barkley.  Look at Eli's QB rating, and QBR jumps from the two additions.   The addition of OBJ had a much greater impact on Eli's production than the addition of Barkley.  Be mindful that early in his career, Barkley was a much bigger weapon in the passing game.

https://x.com/bykevinclark/status/1780962540589056190

https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1780961573814542802

Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2024, 10:53:16 AMI think he processes fine.  I dont think he trusts his protection which he should not given how bad it was but that lack of trust is also making him unwilling to take shots down the field.  The latter is why I think the Giants need to move on from him.

If the Giants don't draft a QB, it will be interesting to see if Jones (likely with the help of the team psychologist) is able to move past the trauma and learn to trust his protection.  If not, we may see Lock playing more this season.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 18, 2024, 10:34:55 AMMy take FWIW, is that the coaches analyze everything, and then DJ does what he's told to do based on the play called from the sideline. He isn't Roger Staubach calling plays in the huddle on his own while Landry watches to see what he decides to do. Giants coaches know DJ's limitations, and they also know the limitations of the OL and receivers. And they call the shots based on their own analysis and what they think will work. If DJ was a loose canon who did what he felt like doing instead of sticking to the play calling, he would have been cut a long time ago

I have no worries that DJ can't read the defense or that he processes slow. He's balancing doing what exactly what he's told, while usually running for his life...and don't forget, he has been told to NOT THROW INTERCEPTIONS after a bad start of turning the ball over

Ric,

The interception issue is an underappreciated one, in my opinion.   QBs are instructed by the coaching staff how much risk the coaches are willing to tolerate.  If a QB is told to be extra careful it will tend to slow down their progression and also reduce the depth of target

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on April 18, 2024, 10:00:22 AMThe Giants already have a back-up. If they want to waste a spot on a 3rd QB - give it to DeVito.

There's no justification for wasting a 4th round pick on a QB that isn't contending to start.

The Giants need to get much better at identifying role players in rounds 3-5 rather than wasting them on "projects" ala Peart or 2nd/3rd string QBs.

Draft a QB early or not at all would be my preference.

I imagine the wisdom of drafting someone like Pratt depends on how the Giants view DeVito.  If the Giants don't view DeVito as becoming a high-level backup, then the 3rd QB spot is wide open, and when the season is over, they let Lock walk saving his $5 million salary cap hit (which could be higher if he meets performance incentives)

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on April 18, 2024, 10:03:01 AMJones gets all the excuses under the sun.

With many fans, it's the complete opposite.  Those fans will never acknowledge the challenging situations Jones has had to deal with. Those fans expect Jones to perform literal miracles.

Quote from: katkavage on April 18, 2024, 09:50:23 AMTrue about Pratt but can you really think or believe at this point that Jones can be more than a game manager? His ceiling is a poor man's Ryan Tannehill. Do you think his slow processing will suddenly improve after five years? Injuries are just a part of his issues.

I think the claims of DJ being a slow processor are more the result of fans claiming they see that on film (they don't) rather than a reflection of reality.  Unless you are at Greg Cosell level tape grinder (with access to the full 22), the average (and even above average fan) is not capable of discerning processing speed.   I would also suggest that if fans' claims about the slow processing were true, Schoen would have never signed DJ to the contract they did.

My biggest concern with DJ moving forward is that the Giants did such a horrible job protecting him over the years he is starting to see ghosts.   It's possible that DJ's ACL tear may prove to be a blessing in disguise because it gave him some time off from the beatings, and perhaps he will recover from his previous trauma.  That is a big question in my mind.  I'm not sure how DJ will react when he starts getting hit again.  So traumas become ingrained, and I don't care how tough you are; they just keep impacting you.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 17, 2024, 08:45:22 PMYes, if they've done their homework and love the QB they're taking, and it's not just out of desperation at the position and trying to save their jobs.

No, if it's the above.

Historically the track record for teams trading up into the top 5 for a QB has been terrible.   I suspect there are two reasons for that.  First, to make the trade, you need a team that doesn't think the QB is a future high-end starter (since most teams in the top 5 of the draft don't have an elite QB), so they are willing to trade down.  Second, the draft capital spent moving up into the top 5 means that the team's 3 Ps of QB support (see the thread I started about that) is likely to suffer and make it far more difficult to develop the QB that is drafted.

Quote from: katkavage on April 18, 2024, 09:42:16 AMOkay, but unless Pratt turns out to be better than Davis Webb, the Giants still will need a quality QB going forward.

Assuming Daniel Jones was being fully truthful when he said last season's neck injury was just a routine stinger, it wouldn't surprise me if the Giants treat 2024 as another prove-it year for Daniel Jones.

Pratt, from what I have seen, is more of a low-cost solid backup QB than a future franchise starting QB.  If Pratt develops the team can same some nice money by not having to sign expensive veteran backups.

Brugler did a 7 round mock.  How would you feel about this whole for our boys in blue?


1 (6). Malik Nabers, WR, LSU
2 (47). Jaden Hicks, S, Washington State
3 (70). Trey Benson, RB, Florida State
4 (107). Michael Pratt, QB, Tulane
5 (166). Josh Newton, CB, TCU
6 (183). Justin Eboigbe, DL, Alabama

Quote from: T200 on April 18, 2024, 09:32:00 AMI think he'll get paid handsomely by another team.

He was a good soldier for us. One of the few bright spots we had.

I think Slayton is underappreciated.   As @Painter mentioned, Slayton has quietly been the leading WR for 4 of the past 5 seasons. 

I suspect Slayton would be less confirmed if this wasn't the final year of his contract.   Slayton needs to have a productive season if he wants to get a decent third contract.

Quote from: T200 on April 18, 2024, 09:19:35 AMI'm guessing it doesn't begin with the letter 'P'... 

    

Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2024, 09:17:17 AMHow is a strong running game not included?

I think the benefits of a strong running game are not of the same magnitude as the three Ps.  I think perhaps the biggest benefit of a strong running game is that if you have an RB who is more of a consistent yardage generator (that RB who consistently gets 4 or 5 yards), the QB will face less obvious passing situations.  This is less of a benefit if the RB is less consistent and has many carries with no (or little yardage) or, worse, negative yardage.

Another thing that one might think would be a benefit, more effective play action plays, has not stood up to study.  Analytic people have crunched the numbers and found the benefits of play action are independent of how effective the running game is.