Big Blue Huddle

Yes and no. Yes, if we continue to have a dysfunctional OL and a QB who won't fire down the field. No, if you take Wink's results after the last three years and realise that the good teams have figured his scheme out and repeatedly took advantage of it.

Interesting. And let's face it, a guy assisting on an ST's ranked 5th in DVOA & 3rd in Gosselin rankings ain't to be sniffed at. Could be an up and comer.

We will have Tierney directly coaching both Nix and Penix (another one I don't want in Giants blue) at the Senior Bowl

Gonna go on record now and say I hated Bo Nix at Auburn and what I saw last year of him at Oregon didn't change my mind. The way I see it, he's not a reason a team wins - too careful, doesn't do well when harassed, doesn't elevate his play against good defenses, lack of "big boy pants" throws and he's started for FIVE years so it's questionable how much development is left. Sound like anyone you know wearing #8??

If he's deemed to be the answer,  I think we'd have asked the wrong question.

Disclaimer: Need to watch a whole lot more games and actually study him but my impressions of him are far worse than of the other highly rated QB's in this draft.

Puppet Master!

Quote from: madbadger on November 14, 2023, 11:08:46 AMThat's a very difficult block made impossible because McKeathan froze for a fraction of a second. Almost like he forgot his assignment for a millisecond. IMHO he isn't well coached, the scheme is asking him to do what he isn't capable of doing what he is being asked to do and he lacks the athletic ability to play in the NFL.

Very much this. Some idiot is drawing up Madden fantasy blocking schemes as not the first time we've seen the impossible asked... (Remember Bellinger lined up two spots from RT and was asked to block Bosa inside on a run/pass option leading to DJ getting walloped in our end zone?)

I love watching him play. But this is NY... Snowflakes need not apply. We got sick of OBJ. Don't need a diva at QB. He'd last a New York minute...

NB: I'm 52. I can't be dealing with this "woke" , "in touch with his feelings " BS. Just give me a f*cking QB that can play,  has nutz that need a wheelbarrow to carry 'em, is hard as nails on the outside and that you win because of. I'm talking Simms and Eli levels of toughness here!

Have to say I'm somewhat open minded about it. But if we do dump him we can't give Schoen a free pass... He built the team and everywhere you look there have been miscalculations on what we have and errors that left us short at key positions. It's almost like the worst bits of Reese and Gettleman we're reincarnated and came to haunt us!

Having 8 WR's active yesterday said it all. With the best will in the world - not to mention a healthy starting QB which we don't have - in a game where it's windy and pissing down we were always gonna throw a lot less. Instead, we had a bunch of guys doing nothing, lost our starting almost non-blocking TE and moved our all-around TE from playing the quasi-FB role impacting further on the game plan.

Mara won't push, so unless Dabes jumps or has a meltdown ala Judge, he'll be back. But both should be put on notice having gone swiftly from Bono's to Bozo's tied together in lock step

Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2023, 04:17:33 PMI dont see us getting an edge rusher early this in this draft as the pickings seems less interesting.  If Nolan Smith is available that may be a possibility.

I don't see him being available anywhere close to where we draft.  Schrager had him in his mock yesterday at 8!

After this has been out a few days I'll put my boards up so you can see how everything interlinks

[quote

Quote from: Bob In PA on May 01, 1975, 02:03:34 AMquote author=Bob In PA link=msg=885838 date=1681562148]

Your presentation is all meat.

Bob

PS. Originally, my final sentence was "Your ham sandwich is all ham" but that version would have defeated its intended complimentary purpose...  LOL      

Erm... Thanks??? Just as long as the meat you were thinking of isn't Spam!

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 15, 2023, 08:21:58 AMCeri's case for edge rushers had me rethinking the priority of this need

You might be surprised about who's on my target list and who isn't! I recorded part II of the podcast on defense on Sunday morning with Brian and he is putting it up shortly

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 04, 2023, 06:53:00 PMI watch this game every year and there is always a player or two who stands out like a sore thumb. Not this year 

Seems like this year unless the NFL teams wanted to see them play multiple positions most of the very best players in practice either didn't play at all or had very limited snaps.

I liked what I saw from Mauch in multiple roles. He has the mobility to make blocks at the second level from the inside.

Not sure I've seen that mobility from Torrence though he did give me a good laugh in the 2nd QTR when he came in too high on the Cincinnati LB Pace, got a shoulder put through his chest, flew backwards through the air and tackled his own RB in what should have been a gaping hole

Been a while since I contributed to this board save for the odd bit so thought I'd share some thoughts on who to look out for in tomorrow's game with my usual Giants-only slant to things

QB
Don't care. By all accounts and from what I've seen at practice (very limited amounts) those at the game have been very disappointing all week. Like it or not (and I do!) DJ's the man going forward and no matter how much bleating you do that ain't gonna change!

RB
Star of the show is Tulane's Tyjae Spears (A22) who I discovered late season but consider an explosive every down option at the next level. He's been terrific all week busting countless long runs and getting open in the passing game and making more plays. IF we lose Saquon, he's on my list as a potential replacement. He even does the red zone wildcat QB stuff! I can't see him being available beyond the top end of R3 though, possibly not even after R2 after this showing and what he put on 'tape' last year for the Green Wave.

Retaining Saquon and looking for a speedy change-up who can line up out wide and catch the ball too Georgia's Kenny McIntosh (N6) stands out to me as offering a skill set we could use just as his former teammate James Cook did before the last draft. He is the sort of surprise pick I could see us making with our second 3rd round selection. I feel the need, the need for speed!

WR
The money shelled out on Kenny Golladay was wasted. He doesn't fit and he won't be here much longer. Darius Slayton is an FA and our only deep threat. Whether he's back depends on what others offer as we won't be breaking the ban. Isaiah Hodgins was a late season find off the scrap heap. He not only should be back, he looks like a solid #2 option! In the slot, Richie James played well after season ending injuries to Sterling Shepard and R2 pick Wan'dale Robinson. All three will likely return. With the exception of Hodgins we lack height and without Slayton we lack any semblance of outside speed. Both are things we need to address, preferably with one player! While tempting to splash the cash and trade picks for a #1 receiver we really need to develop our own stars!

Houston's Nathaniel Dell (A2) and Michigan State's Jayden Reed (N1) stood out all week as the best WR in attendance. Dell is speedy and exciting, just not what we need as he's tiny (5'8 2/8", 163lb's)... Reed is 5'10 ¾", 191lb's so pretty average size wise.  Of the taller 6'+ guys, keep an eye on SMU's Rashee Rice (A11), Missisippi's Jonathon Mingo (A18) and Iowa State's Xavier Hutchinson (A4) though none may be the burner I'd prefer. The Athletic's Charlotte Carroll dropped the tidbit that Schoen had seen Princeton's Andrei Iosivas (N9) on YouTube and impressed him on the first day of practice with some big plays deep down. Clearly, he'll need some development but at 6'2 7/8", 217lb's with 4.3 speed he has all the tools to go a lot higher than a lot of people expect.

TE
Daniel Bellinger was everything we could hope he would be and more. Smart, tough and dependable! He needed route development having ran very few of them in college and he still does but he's on his way to being a stud and he fits this offense to a tee. Behind him? Not so much. Nick Vannett is nothing but a blocker. Lawrence Cager, nothing but a receiver. Chris Myarick is a nice story but that's about it. Help is needed. It might be possible to land a superstar receiving TE who can also block but I don't see how upgrading a position that didn't need a starter upgrade would help fill the multitude of holes elsewhere...

Oregon State's Luke Musgrave (A88) is the best TE prospect in Mobile and expected to go in R2. Too rich for my blood...  Purdue's Payne Durham (N87) isn't far behind though. Cincinnati's Josh Whyle (N81) might be of interest to us on day three as he looks to be able to do a bit of everything pretty well.

OT
At LT we're set for a long, long time with Andrew Thomas. RT? Let's just say that the performance of Evan Neal was underwhelming but his injuries didn't help. I'd not expect us to move him inside after a year – remember he was a damn fine RG as a freshman and veteran Mark Glowinski only has a year left on his contract– but if we did Tennessee's Darnell Wright (A58) would be a nice fit giving us a near 700lb right side. Smart, tough, dependable? Yep. He's also a cert to go by the middle of R2.

Small-school prospects of note are South Dakota's Cody Mauch (N70) and Tennessee-Chatanooga's Curtis McClendon (N52). Both have been played at multiple positions in practice though quite where they will settle in the NFL is anyone's guess. Despite getting some hype, both will likely take some time to acclimatise to the speed/power of the NFL

OG
Lots of good Guards on show but most of them only have experience on the left side. Sure, we've had a revolving door at LG for a few years with multiple starters and just as many injuries but having invested an R3 pick in Joshua Ezeudu last year I expect him to be given every opportunity to take the job full-time rather than being drafted over immediately.

If we were to take someone at LG I'd also expect them to also to have extensive experience at C so Notre Dame's Jarrett Patterson (N75) and Texas Christian's Steve Avila (A79) are foremost in my mind. Can't say I love either though...

Looking at the right side, Florida's O'Cyrus Torrence (A56) stands out. Apart from being huge he's rather good having made the step up to SEC football last year to follow his HC Billy Napier after starring at Louisiana Tech. That said, I don't see the point of paying Glowinski $8m guaranteed and then either replacing him with an R1 pick – which is likely what Torrence will be – or having an R1 pick sit on the bench or play LG and put Ezeudu on the bench again.

So who do I like? Alabama's Emil Ekiyor (A55). He's a really solid RG prospect who can get movement both in line and gets out easily to the second level. In practices he also proved he could also play C having worked hard on it with long-time Bengals OL Coach Paul Alexander. Ticks the "smart, tough dependable" boxes nicely as an early day three pick.

C
I see this is one of our biggest needs. The Giants clearly didn't want Feliciano playing G so even when we had injury issues at both spots he stayed in the pivot while Gates – who in my view is a far better C than G – moved into that role part-time. Feliciano offered something Gates really doesn't – an ability to makes blocks at the second level – so I wonder if that is something Daboll needs more than an in-line presence? Feliciano kinda sucked in pass pro though, hence the need for a new young C...

IF Feliciano isn't back, there are some really good C prospects in this draft and Minnesota's John Michael Schmitz (A74) is probably the best IOL in the draft let alone top C. He's had a dominant practice week (and college career for that matter!) both in pass protection, run blocking in-line and at the second level including on screens. My lone misgiving is that he'll be 24 before the draft and Schoen didn't draft anyone older than 22 before the start of last season until the 6th round! Chances of Schmitz lasting that long are slim and none and slim left town. He might not make it out of R1 and he definitely ain't making it to our pick at 57... Trade down option? He'd make the whole line better.

Michigan's Olusegun Oluwatimi (N55) is a pure C and also will be 24 before training camp starts. I'm not overly enamoured of him despite his notching individual accolades (Outland Award and Rimmington Tropy winner) playing on the nation's best college OL.

1T/NT
There are a half dozen players I really like this year and one of them is in this game. However, we have ALL-PRO Dexter Lawrence so while we need depth – even being kind to him, Justin Ellis absolutely sucked –  I can't see this being a position we'd consider until day three.  Shame as Wisconsin's Keeanu Benton (N95) is a really good player who has had a really good practice week. I'd imagine he'll end up taken by the mid-point in R2 at latest. While he can play 3T – something we do need help with to spell Leonard Williams – I can't see that being his best spot in the pro's and he definitely isn't going to play 5T so it's too hefty a price to pay for him in my eyes.

Coastal Carolina's Jerrod Clark (N15) is a 343lb'er who was seen getting a fist bump from Wink after a couple of great reps yesterday. While Schoen stuck to big conferences last year with his draft picks that's not a guarantee this time around with more time to work with the scouts. We also know for sure Schoen's seen him in person as he was scouting now Ravens TE Isaiah Likely at games in 2022. See what you think.

3T/5T
I see this position as a huge need. I love Leonard Williams but he's starting to pick up injuries now. His willingness to play through them is admirable but it definitely impacted upon his ability to play the run straight at him. Once Nick Williams went down depth here was non-existent and teams ate us up inside in the running game whenever LW took a rest and we got no push in the passing game either. The dominance of both the Eagles and Cowboys OL's means we simply have to get better on the inside and I see this as the key spot we need to do so whether that's simply by adding a great depth piece or LW's successor a year or two early.

Georgia Tech's Keion White (N6) will probably be gone long before we're on the board having recently been named in Daniel Jeremiah's top ten but you never know. He's played everywhere from 3T to 5T and his best fit might be as a 4-3 DE. He's got the strength to overpower as well as out-quick interior OL's and the speed to make plays around the edge having made Bruce Feldman's 'freak' list due to his athletic prowess. Available at 25 he might look awfully nice in blue as he could not only spell/eventually succeed LW he could also give a hand to Ojulari and Thibodeaux livening up QB's from the outside!

Bowling Green's Karl Brooks (N13) had rushed primarily from the outside in a 4 man front with great success despite being 303lb's until he got to Mobile but he's had some excellent reps inside at 3T and caught just about everyone's eye. I can't say I'd seen him at all heading into Mobile but the sages of the community like Daniel Jeremiah and Dane Brugler were talking him up and seemingly he seemingly hasn't disappointed. If his athletic prowess lives up to the hype he could well be an early R2 pick and a trade down option for the Giants.

Northwestern's Adetomiwa Adebawore (N99) appeals as a schematic fit having predominantly played 5T but reduced down to 3T more and more as the season progressed. While he may be shorter than ideal at 6'1 5/8 he's 284lb's built long and fast (34" arms, 82 1/8" wingspan) and knows how to use those attributes. Can't get more smart, tough and dependable than kids from Northwestern either! He's on my watch list for the top of day three.

Two SEC stalwarts Alabama's Byron Young (A47) and South Carolina's Zacc Pickens (A3) appear to be more 3T/1T types but could also be on the Giants minds. Young reminds me of former Giants player Cornelius Griffin in both his size and skill set. I think he has the movement skills to play some outside and you know Dabes has the inside info with his Bama links! Pickens is highly though of by Talkin' Giants podcast host Bobby Skinner. While I was underwhelmed zeroing in on him last weekend for the first time v Arkansas I have three other games to view and Bobby knows his onions (and was watching practices in Mobile all week). I'd expect both to go by the end of R3.

EDGE
Having invested heavily in Thibodeaux and Ojulari we have our starting pairing for the present and long into the future. Or at least we will if Ojulari can shake the injury bug that afflicted him last year from the very start and never stopped biting! Behind them I'd expect Jihad Ward back as the leader of the group but he shouldn't be the 3rd guy – he can stop the run but he makes nothing happen as a pass rusher. We can definitely upgrade O'Shane Ximines as the 4th guy. Sadly for me Elerson Smith hasn't panned out. He had all the physical/athletic tools, he just can't get and stay on the field... Time to move on methinks.

Wink seemingly prefers the guys in the 250lb+ range who can push the T's back rather than relying solely on speed to beat them outside. Keep an eye on Auburn's Derrick Hall (A29), Notre Dame's Isaiah Foskey (N7) and Army's raw Andre Carter II (N34). The headline show will be Iowa State's Will McDonald IV (N9) but he's both a little smaller than a Wink backer and also likely to go way earlier than we'd take a back-up.

ILB
Another position we need in the worst way. The attributes our revolving door at both spots put most on display last year were guessing wrong and taking themselves out of the hole, getting blown off the ball, blowing coverages and not beating blocks on their frequent pass rush forays. While there is hope for rookies – and in particular who was injured in pre-season whilst seemingly winning a starting spot – I'd expect a high-quality veteran to be bought in to lead the youngsters and address the weakness that seems to have been around since the turn of the millennium. Most of the good players in Mobile are undersized for your typical Wink 'backer but there's definitely some kids that can fly around to make plays and hit harder than their size suggests they should be able to.

On the American squad Tulane's Dorian Williams (A24) stands out to me. On the National squad it's Texas' DeMarvion Overshown (N2) – one of three front seven players I really like on the Longhorns defense but the only one of the trio in Mobile – and he should be exciting to watch! Keep an eye out also for Washington's Daiyan Henley (N1) and Cincinnati's Ivan Pace jr (N11)

CB
Yet another position where the Giants defense needs help. The fact that Wink got this unit to play some much better as a testament to his skills as a DC rather than the talent we had. Adoree Jackson had a tremendous season until Dabes made his worst coaching error of the season and sent him back to return punts. He's got one spot locked down long-term (yes, I believe we'll extend him). Beyond that we had another revolving door. Fabian Moreau had some decent games but he's more of a CB4. Aaron Robinson got hurt (again) and as with Elerson Smith my patience has come to an end. The best ability is availability! Nickel back Darney Holmes didn't see a flag he didn't deserve and he saw plenty! With a high cap figure for his limited abilities I expect him to be cut. Cordale Flott made a couple of plays but also couldn't stay heathy. I still think he's more a nickel back than a future starter. Rodarius Williams was barely healthy, mouthed off after one decent game and had his playing time removed. I can't see him making the team again. 

My record of which CB's to like and which not to isn't exactly awe inspiring (I really liked Eli Apple coming out!) and without access to All-22 film they are hard for me to assess as so often not in the picture for the whole of the play.

On the American squad, Miami (Fla)'s Tyrique Stevenson (A8) has a strong bump and run game and the height/length Schoen and Wink seem to like. He's reportedly had very good practices but I've not studied his games at the Hurricanes yet. Kansas State's Julius Brents (A23) is one I have seen a fair bit of this season. He's built ridiculously long but I'm not sure about his ball play skills or that he isn't better suited to a zone scheme. South Carolina's Darius Rush (N28) played second fiddle to All-American Cam Smith (a sure-fire R1 selection) but he's reportedly had a very good week and he looked decent in the lone game I've studied the Gamecocks defense in to date. Iowa's Riley Moss (N27) is a white CB so people will automatically think he's slow. He definitely isn't but he made more plays as an underclassman than this past year. Might be a consideration if we're adding a nickel back. 

On the National squad Stanford's Kyu Blu Kelly (N17), son of former Buc Super Bowl winning CB Brian Kelly, has also reportedly had very good practices. I'm not sure he's not more of a zone CB type though and I can't say he stood out to me when I watched Cardinals games this year. From what I've seen of Oregon State's Rejzohn Wright (N21) he's a better player. He's had issues covering the smaller receivers inside during the practices and drew plenty of flags but he seems to fit the Schioen/Wink profile and did a very good job against USC's Jordan Addison – a likely R1 pick who some consider the top WR in this draft – in their match up this year.

S
Xavier McKinney will look for a big year and a big contract. Julian Love offered leadership and was generally steady and will look to cash in on free agency.  That may not be with us. Rookie Dane Belton made some plays and will play a bigger role going forwards. Jason Pinnock and Nick McCloud got more playing time than expected as forced into action by injuries. Veterans Landon Collins - seen as an LB only nowadays- and Tony Jefferson offered good tackling but aren't the future. I think we have enough even if Love goes but it couldn't hurt adding to ST's with a developmental type player who could contribute in specific packages on defense.

Sacramento State's Marte Mapu (A0) might be one to look out for here along with Boise States JL Skinner (N0) as both are tall players with good size. I like Illinois' Sydney Brown (N30) best though but he's likely to go earlier than we'd be looking to add someone in

Quote from: Blue Fire on May 02, 2022, 06:39:37 PM
This is an excellent excellent point : 5 of the next 11 picks were WR. Does Robinson make it out of that run ? Im guessing the NFL was higher on him than fans were. Ironically we may have found out the answer if McCreary made it to one more pick later.

Guessing that will be the case otherwise otherwise teams would have been contacting various media types laughing at the Giants pick and suggesting that Schoen didn't do as well as opinions seemed to suggest. The silence on that pick is deafening,  well, apart from armchair Giants GM's upset that their draft analyst's of choice weren't in lock step with Schoen.