Big Blue Huddle

McAdoo was the OC of an offense who was above average for 2 seasons and gave Eli 2 of his best statistical seasons, so him being a head coach I didn't see as a negative. Even though the offense struggled in 2016, they still made the playoffs. Things really unraveled in year 2, the team was horrible, the players quit and we went 3-13. It was a radical difference from year 1. .

Joe Judge was a wildcard hire in 2020. Even while going 6-10 everyone praised how hard they played and thought things were in the upswing. Fans for the most part loved Judge, loved his attituded and felt unity with the team. However like 2017, it was a radical changed, everyone now hated the head coach, he looked nothing like he did last year and everyone like McAdoo, wanted him fired. That after signing and drafting supposed new weapons in the offseason to bolster the offense.
 
Now with Daboll, makes the playoffs his first year, wins COTY then in year two, like in coaches past the team collapses. Again after the team acquires weapons in the offseason to bolster the offense. So why is it that when the first year looks promising, year 2 is always a collapse, even when on paper changes were done to improve the team? What happens in the offseason between years 1 and 2?

You forgot Pat Shurmur.

We are a supposed flagship franchise DESPERATE for some sign of continued success as a show of our strength and stability.

The powers that be in the offseason after success the previous year lie to themselves, overvalue and overpay and think the success will continue.  Our drafts are ordinary at best.  We would in almost every circumstance be better off trading out of the first 2 rounds cuz we sure can't evaluate talent across the board.

No balls to make the tough call like holding the line on Jones and Barkley (one is ordinary the other close to being done), keeping good citizens on the roster who have no football value. 

In short the New York Football Giants are a clusterf**k football franchise who occasionally like the blind pig find an acorn.

And don't it make you wonder just HOW MANY first time head coaches are we going to keep hiring.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on October 04, 2023, 12:53:45 AMWe are a supposed flagship franchise DESPERATE for some sign of continued success as a show of our strength and stability.

The powers that be in the offseason after success the previous year lie to themselves, overvalue and overpay and think the success will continue.  Our drafts are ordinary at best.  We would in almost every circumstance be better off trading out of the first 2 rounds cuz we sure can't evaluate talent across the board.

No balls to make the tough call like holding the line on Jones and Barkley (one is ordinary the other close to being done), keeping good citizens on the roster who have no football value. 

In short the New York Football Giants are a clusterf**k football franchise who occasionally like the blind pig find an acorn.

And don't it make you wonder just HOW MANY first time head coaches are we going to keep hiring.

There's a larger theory that since the 1950s, the Giants and Lions have essentially been the same. The difference is the Giants got LT and Eli to save them and the Lions got Barry Sanders and Megatron to try to save them.

Now Hutchinson is saving the Lions and Barkley failed to save the Giants.

If you think about it Reeves, Fassel and McAdoo all had good year 1's then declined in year 2.  Parcells and Coughlin had double digit loss year one then made the playoffs in year 2.  Though Ray Perkins had a 6-10 year 1 and declined in year 2 to 4-12 leading to the 2nd overall pick and the draft pick that changed the franchise then playoffs in year 3.  Hope Daboll is more like Ray Perkins than Reeves and Fassel.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 04, 2023, 06:56:29 AMIf you think about it Reeves, Fassel and McAdoo all had good year 1's then declined in year 2.  Parcells and Coughlin had double digit loss year one then made the playoffs in year 2.  Though Ray Perkins had a 6-10 year 1 and declined in year 2 to 4-12 leading to the 2nd overall pick and the draft pick that changed the franchise then playoffs in year 3.  Hope Daboll is more like Ray Perkins than Reeves and Fassel.

Reeves was a story of decline. 11-5, then 9-7, then 5-11, and 6-10. But the man had a track record. He wasn't a good fit for the Giants.

Fassel's tenure was weird. 10-5-1, 8-8, 7-9, 12-4, 7-9, 10-6, 4-12. Three postseason appearances that all ended disastrously. Never put together two straight winning seasons.

Ray Perkins inherited a horrible, shell-shocked team. He went 6-10, 4-12, 9-7, and 4-5. But he helped put in the foundation for the great Parcells teams.

New York market....lights, attention , often times false praise and expectations of the New York market etc.
Stubborn stuck in mud ownership ?

Even Giant media staff.  ...wildly predicted a 10-6 or better season !

players coaches get. caught up in press coverage ...big city market etc and believe they are better than they are..  Without a hard line coach like Coughlin and or Parcells players get real soft after getting paid with big contracts in New York, not unique to New York players, but most of todays feel good coaches are not disciplined enough themselves, to hold players accountable etc. in a league where the NFL goal and headline is to keep Taylor Swift coming to games to attract her age group to the NFL.
NFL has changed from the Giants winning years where a Coughlin or Parcells could get results from their players.
Their methods of coaching are no longer allowed in the  NFL. In addition to Players Union not allowing contact , or pads even during the pre season, 3 preseason games ...nobody plays starters etc....all leads to poor evaluation of a player's ability or toughness until a team is 4 or 5 games into the season
and often , as is the case with the Giants, it too late and chance of making a playoff run is nil.

Quote from: AYM on October 04, 2023, 06:44:50 AMThere's a larger theory that since the 1950s, the Giants and Lions have essentially been the same. The difference is the Giants got LT and Eli to save them and the Lions got Barry Sanders and Megatron to try to save them.

Now Hutchinson is saving the Lions and Barkley failed to save the Giants.

There is no way on earth that you can compare the NY Giants to the multi-decades story of futility and failure that is the Detroit Lions (their current quality notwithstanding). And there was a lot more to the Giants 4 SB titles than LT and Eli.

For the current regime, I think at least part of it is teams having a year to look at what they did last year.

That paired with limitations in ability to block for passing plays has given opponents an easy plan for success.  Drop 7, play zone, rush 4.  That takes away a lot of the QB runs and since they can get pressure with 4, it limits the passing game. 

There's more limitations on offense but I don't need to turn this thread in that direction.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 04, 2023, 08:32:35 AMFor the current regime, I think at least part of it is teams having a year to look at what they did last year.

That paired with limitations in ability to block for passing plays has given opponents an easy plan for success.  Drop 7, play zone, rush 4.  That takes away a lot of the QB runs and since they can get pressure with 4, it limits the passing game. 

There's more limitations on offense but I don't need to turn this thread in that direction.

There is probably a lot of truth to this.  The coaching staff dumbed things down for Jones to where he had to do little thinking on the fly.  It was a band aid that eventually would be exposed with more tape of the tendencies of this simplified offense.

Two weeks in a row you have heard the opposition talk about how what they saw on tape prepared them for a predictable Giants passing offense.  If you're the coaching staff do you change things up by opening things up being less predictable forcing the QB out of his comfort zone or do you work to try to break the QB out of bad habits while keeping him in his comfort zone?

Professionally I like to say it's great to replace someone bad.  You get points for walking in the door and not being the last person. 

I suspect that is a bit of what we are seeing here. 

Quote from: BlueMoshik on October 04, 2023, 08:28:12 AMThere is no way on earth that you can compare the NY Giants to the multi-decades story of futility and failure that is the Detroit Lions (their current quality notwithstanding). And there was a lot more to the Giants 4 SB titles than LT and Eli.

Quite true! Unlike the Giants, the Lions had to deal with the Curse of Bobby Layne.

It is now 66 years and counting for the Lions between their 1957 NFL Championship and the present. So, for all the wallowing on this thread, consider yourselves lucky that, when the Giants cut Tom Dublinski in 1958, Tom, who was drafted by Detroit in 1952, didn't accidentally pass Bobby's curse onto the Giants when he signed on for the '58 season. Then, again, Tom was signed by the Giants after three seasons in the CFL so maybe Big Blue was safe ... maybe!

Peace!

Quote from: Giant Obsession on October 04, 2023, 12:53:45 AMWe are a supposed flagship franchise DESPERATE for some sign of continued success as a show of our strength and stability.

The powers that be in the offseason after success the previous year lie to themselves, overvalue and overpay and think the success will continue.  Our drafts are ordinary at best.  We would in almost every circumstance be better off trading out of the first 2 rounds cuz we sure can't evaluate talent across the board.

No balls to make the tough call like holding the line on Jones and Barkley (one is ordinary the other close to being done), keeping good citizens on the roster who have no football value. 

In short the New York Football Giants are a clusterf**k football franchise who occasionally like the blind pig find an acorn.

And don't it make you wonder just HOW MANY first time head coaches are we going to keep hiring.

Yup. A franchise always taking the safe, easy route. It's a reflection on the conservative Mara family. Never thinking outside the box. Taking loyalty to the extreme and to the detriment of the franchise. The modern success of the Giants was started by an outsider hoisted on the quarrelling owners by the commissioner. Young's legacy led to Accorsi, Reese and Coughlin. I had hopes for Schoen but the deal for Jones was a bad indicator.

Quote from: katkavage on October 04, 2023, 05:53:08 PMYup. A franchise always taking the safe, easy route. It's a reflection on the conservative Mara family. Never thinking outside the box. Taking loyalty to the extreme and to the detriment of the franchise. The modern success of the Giants was started by an outsider hoisted on the quarrelling owners by the commissioner. Young's legacy led to Accorsi, Reese and Coughlin. I had hopes for Schoen but the deal for Jones was a bad indicator.

Another problem pointed out on another forum is that most of the scouts are still Gettleman's scouts. We haven't cleaned house at all.

"Fire Daboll", is all over Giants twitter right now