Big Blue Huddle

I debated beginning this thread, a rarity for me in any case, by saying "As usual" I figured there was no point in stating the obvious. With more than two-thirds of the season yet to be played it is simply too soon to indulge our biases and personal conceits by second-guessing the front office, coaches and/or players.

That's not to suggest that we shouldn't be surprised and disappointed and wondering why. What I am suggesting, however, is that the central issue is the same as it was before the season began which is whether or not Daniel Jones, not can be or will be, but is the Giants Quarterback of the future. And what does that mean? It means capable of winning a Lombardi whether likely or not as was so with Eli whose career Regular Season numbers have been described, arguably and I think unfairly, as "profoundly mediocre"

Quite unfortunately, a fair and proper determination re Jones cannot and should not be made under current circumstances which involves having had and still having to play behind the league's worst Oline (30 sacks, 100 pressures in 5 games). That's not just inadequate, it is totally unacceptable given the absence of Thomas and Schmitz not to mention Barkley for who knows when.

Thus, unless and until as the season progresses, there is significant improvement in that one regard, we won't have had just a losing season but a wasted season going forward. An unhappy outcome for sure and more than just unimagined, unexpected, and unfortunate for Schoen and Daboll.

Cheers! or better yet, À votre santé   

Same to you my friend. (At our age, that is pretty important).     

I remember when Jones was drafted. Many thought great move and many thought if this wasn't 'The Guy' it would set our franchise back 4 years. Well, it is now into the 5th year and the same questions are still being asked, is he a QB who can lead us forward? If, at the end of this new contract, say we can get out after 2 years, and Jones still hasn't shown what most of us would just love him to show, we will have wasted 6 years on him and maybe still not know if he can handle the NFL in a winning way.

One thing I do have to add. Myself and quite a few others would love to move on from Jones. But, I'm sure (I know myself included) don't go out every game day and hope he screws up. We all would like nothing better than for him to suddenly 'get it' and be the QB many hoped he would be when drafted. I really don't know anyone who roots against him, not to succeed. But time and again, he leaves us feeling lost, confused, and most of all frustrated.
When is enough, enough? How many more years will we wait?

Sláinte mhaith!

Larry, I think you're right. It's not fair under the current circumstances. Venting is appropriate but there needs to be some semblance of order and the organization isn't going to make any decisions until at least the end of the season.

I think there's venting and then there's fans taking the machine, pushing the button, and the machine goes from venting to sucking and then Jones, and every other convenient scapegoat, like the latest and greatest Shark or Dyson product, is guaranteed to be caught in its clenches.

In other words, can we stop stating the obvious, please, and try to tackle the challenge of reverse psychology, perhaps, and look for any signs of fight that they're trying to break through this unexpected season of pure turmoil?

That would really make for some good dialogue and reading. Easier said than done, I know, but why not try?

I appreciate our Chief Philosopher in Residence for his thoughtful post today.

Peace!

One thing for sure, Big Blue Haggle is more active when the team is horrible than when it's on a roll.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 12, 2023, 08:05:49 AMOne thing for sure, Big Blue Haggle is more active when the team is horrible than when it's on a roll.

Bad news and negativity bring the eyeballs.

Finding something positive in this team is more challenging than fielding a decent offensive line. 

Larry I would agree with you if Jones wasn't in Year 5 almost 60 starts into his NFL career.  I don't get the perspective of how you can't evaluate him.  I get the perspective believing that with what a person has seen of him that if he has a supporting cast that can prop him up that he can be a productive NFL QB. But that's just me.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 12, 2023, 08:35:27 AMLarry I would agree with you if Jones wasn't in Year 5 almost 60 starts into his NFL career.  I don't get the perspective of how you can't evaluate him.  I get the perspective believing that with what a person has seen of him that if he has a supporting cast that can prop him up that he can be a productive NFL QB. But that's just me.

We put you down for a no, 5487 posts ago. 

Quote from: T200 on October 12, 2023, 08:12:46 AMBad news and negativity bring the eyeballs.

Finding something positive in this team is more challenging than fielding a decent offensive line. 

Yup there's more to say about diagnosing how to fix it than how it went well. It shows how smart we are. We're experts! Lol

Quote from: Painter on October 11, 2023, 08:43:56 PMI debated beginning this thread, a rarity for me in any case, by saying "As usual" I figured there was no point in stating the obvious. With more than two-thirds of the season yet to be played it is simply too soon to indulge our biases and personal conceits by second-guessing the front office, coaches and/or players.

That's not to suggest that we shouldn't be surprised and disappointed and wondering why. What I am suggesting, however, is that the central issue is the same as it was before the season began which is whether or not Daniel Jones, not can be or will be, but is the Giants Quarterback of the future. And what does that mean? It means capable of winning a Lombardi whether likely or not as was so with Eli whose career Regular Season numbers have been described, arguably and I think unfairly, as "profoundly mediocre"

Quite unfortunately, a fair and proper determination re Jones cannot and should not be made under current circumstances which involves having had and still having to play behind the league's worst Oline (30 sacks, 100 pressures in 5 games). That's not just inadequate, it is totally unacceptable given the absence of Thomas and Schmitz not to mention Barkley for who knows when.

Thus, unless and until as the season progresses, there is significant improvement in that one regard, we won't have had just a losing season but a wasted season going forward. An unhappy outcome for sure and more than just unimagined, unexpected, and unfortunate for Schoen and Daboll.

Cheers! or better yet, À votre santé   

Larry,

This is an outstanding post.  I think you should debate starting threads less and starting threads more.  This is the sort of high quality content we strive for, well done 

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 12, 2023, 08:44:39 AMWe put you down for a no, 5487 posts ago. 

Maybe I should just drop it to 0 for good, no?

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 12, 2023, 08:05:49 AMOne thing for sure, Big Blue Haggle is more active when the team is horrible than when it's on a roll.

Drilling down, I think when the team is doing well, our membership increases, and the diversity of posters increases.  When the team does badly, we lose the stream of new posters, and many regulars post less.

While admittedly, I have no statistical study to support this; it's been my observation that the increased activity is driven by a smaller percentage of the membership.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 12, 2023, 09:30:27 AMDrilling down, I think when the team is doing well, our membership increases, and the diversity of posters increases.  When the team does badly, we lose the stream of new posters, and many regulars post less.

While admittedly, I have no statistical study to support this; it's been my observation that the increased activity is driven by a smaller percentage of the membership.

It's like being at a game. If the Giants make a bad play, there are moans and groans and then there are the people who are demonstrably much louder.

Same thing here. When the team isn't doing well, many express their disappointment with a groan and sigh, while others...         

Quote from: T200 on October 12, 2023, 09:37:02 AMIt's like being at a game. If the Giants make a bad play, there are moans and groans and then there are the people who are demonstrably much louder.

Same thing here. When the team isn't doing well, many express their disappointment with a groan and sigh, while others...         

To further your analogy, when the Giants are doing poorly in a game, many fans head towards the exit before the game is over.  The ones that stay tend to be the most vested in the team and its fortunes.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 12, 2023, 08:05:49 AMOne thing for sure, Big Blue Haggle is more active when the team is horrible than when it's on a roll.

Respectfully, I disagree. Are you telling me that last year, when the team was rolling, the posts here were down? I think, if we are or were a good team, more people would come to post. When we are bad, yes, there may be more posts, but it usually comes from the core that we have, be it pro or con.
 When we are winning, there is so much more to talk about and the board is more active. Tell that to Mara and company if he values fan's opinions.